Real Ale.

Just wondering how many of you know what real ale is, or if you care.
What's you're attitude to it?

I admit I'm an EAC beer snob.

I really try hard and am 95% successful to only drink real ale.
I will not drink kegged/tapped bitter.
I refuse to drink tapped lagers or ciders.
I will not drink canned beers.

If all else fails I'll 99% of the time drink bottled Newcastle Brown Ale.
If I'm abroad then I'll settle for bottled pils.

I have a pretty good idea, and I'd love to try one someday in an English pub. CAMRA makes me want to not care.

Yuri_Rage said:

I have a pretty good idea, and I'd love to try one someday in an English pub. CAMRA makes me want to not care.

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Camra have done alot for real ale. They are a bit political but they do a lot.
(I'm a card carrying member)

orfy said:

Just wondering how many of you know what real ale is, or if you care.
What's you're attitude to it?

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I enjoy it! Many craft-brew pubs in the US offer a real ale selection, and it's generally the first thing I order.

orfy said:

I admit I'm an EAC beer snob.

I really try hard and am 95% successful to only drink real ale.
I will not drink kegged/tapped bitter.
I refuse to drink tapped lagers or ciders.
I will not drink canned beers.

If all else fails I'll 99% of the time drink bottled Newcastle Brown Ale.

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Suit yourself, but IMHO you're missing out on a lot of great beer (or you would be in the US, anyway). More for me to drink, I guess.

And I pity anyone who would drink a bottled Newcastle over any one of our fine craft-brewed (but "damned to kegs") beer. More often than not, bottled Newcastle in the States is swill. Seriously...clear bottles for a "real" beer?

CAMRA have good intentions, but sticking to the "letter of the law" on real ale rather than the spirit under which it was developed (save the world from bland, processed beers) defeats the purpose.

orfy said:

If I'm abroad then I'll settle for bottled pills.

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Prescription meds are rarely a good substitute for beer.

Bike N Brew said:

Prescription meds are rarely a good substitute for beer.

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Dude that is the funniest **** I've heard in a long time. :cross:

I guess I don't know what "real" ale is, but I have a good idea. FWIW I just went on vacation and drank Newcastle Brown ale almost exclusively.

There is a local brewery here in town that offers their best bitter and flagship ales as real ale to pubs and bars. My neighborhood pub carries both of them and they're pretty much all I drink when I'm there, I love the stuff. I'm told it's one of their highest volume beers for sale (the pub, not the brewery).

Here's why CAMRA kinda irritates me. It seems that their opinion is that real ale is the only kind of beer that should ever be available anywhere. Orfy's post proves that out fairly well. Sure, real ale is great beer. In some cases, it's probably the best beer available. But, it's not THE ONLY beer. Traditionally served cask conditioned beer is not widely available in the US. I wish it were a bit more popular here. The only time I ever had a hand drawn ale from a cask, I did enjoy it quite a bit. However, there are some PHENOMENAL beers available from metal kegs, plain old bottles, and even the occasional can. To turn a blind eye to them because they aren't drawn from a barrel by a fancy beer engine is ignorant.

Orfy, it's not a personal attack...just my opinion on the subject.

Yuri,

I wanted to get others opinions, If I didn't want them I wouldn't ask. (I value yours)
Now I have a reason for going for real ale every time. The reason is that if I drink a pint in a pub then I do not want to waste my time, effort and money getting **** beer. The beer served in many pubs from taps around the UK is swill to start with. Pretty much like the Ale version of BMC.
At least if it's from a pump then you know you are in with a chance.
Yes some of the tap beer is good and yes some of the pump beer is bad.
But there is too much good real ale for me to try to risk mediocre tap beer.
My local has 6 pumps on that rarely last more than 2 days. I will never run out of new real Ale to try and I love the stuff. If I lived else where then the story would be different.

At present I'm drinking Leffe.


I do not try to say the UK real ale is the only good beer or that anything that is not casked is bad. I'm not saying that I do not drink anything else.

This thread was started not to preach but to listen.

I would say this position on beer drinking is ignorance.. but its strange because those who share this view on "real ale" seem too intelligent to fall prey to most ignorant one sided viewpoints.. Its very strange.

Me for one love anything that has had thought put into it and isnt being used to brainwash the masses (BMC)

I absolutely love real ale. It's by far my preferred 'type' of beer. But I'll drink kegged beer over cans or bottles, most times. And great beer can come in anything, as far as I can tell. But for me, nothing beats a hand-pulled ale. I wish we had more of it in the US.

Yuri_Rage said:

Here's why CAMRA kinda irritates me. It seems that their opinion is that real ale is the only kind of beer that should ever be available anywhere.

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But CAMRA is an advocacy group, and as with all advocacy groups, they push the point of view that they advocate, I don't think they would have been so successful if their message was that real ales are great but pasteurized and force carbonated ales are also good.
I am extremely grateful to them for their efforts and success. When they started in the early 1970's, real ales were very difficult to find, and getting more difficult each year as the small breweries that made them were being put out of business by larger breweries making a cheaper (but in my view inferior) product.
Thanks largely to their efforts, real ales are now readily available everywhere in the UK (or at least everywhere that I've been).

-a.

I know what it is, but have yet to try any, guess ill have to cross the pond some day and see what all the fuss is about.

Of course I know what it is. Do you think I am stupid of something. It is a brewery in Blanco Texas. Everyone knows that!!!

http://www.realalebrewing.com/

It's something I have enjoyed at the Hob Goblin in Reading and Turf Tavern in Oxford. Tasty Brews.

orfy said:

I refuse to drink tapped lagers or ciders.

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Now, I'll take my kegged Apfelwein over any commercial UK cider any day.:rockin:

I don't know if I have had any Real - "UK" - Ale when I was there. I drank Whitbread Best Bitters and Strongbow Cider. Obviously the cider isn't real ale. Is the Whitbread BB a real ale? It was in 1986, so it was along time ago.

I like Craftbeers and would be in support of an Craft Beer Advocacy Group if one existed in the US. Assuming it wouldn't dabble in big political endorsements.

I think its narrow minded to drink only cask conditioned ale, especially traveling abroad. If that's what you have at home then yes I agree supporting it all the way. However if your in Portland Oregon drinking a local craft beer, like Widmar, from a metal keg its perfectly acceptable.

I'm in China now and I've been drinking a few craft beers made at the local restaurants and "Snow Beer" made here in Qinhuangdao. Hell - its safer or more healthy for me. The tap water here is not potable. No ice on my beer glasses either.

There's nothing wrong saying that Cask Condition beer is the best if that what you think. Its only your opinion.

I think my beer is the best!!!!!

EdWort said:

Now, I'll take my kegged Apfelwein over any commercial UK cider any day.:rockin:

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The only tapped ciders in the UK are mass produced ones. All the good stuff is in the bottles.

gonzoflick said:

I would say this position on beer drinking is ignorance.. but its strange because those who share this view on "real ale" seem too intelligent to fall prey to most ignorant one sided viewpoints.. Its very strange

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Now that I do take exception to.

I guess you do not have the full details on which you base your views to make that statement.

I am far from ignorant when it comes to the UK beer and pub scene.

I would guess it may be a stupid stance to take in other countries where there is not the full and wide range of real ales available.
Also available from these pumps are Blondes, Wheat Beers, The odd cider, Milds, Stouts, Bitters, Porters, Scottish Ales, German, Belgian and Dutch beers. There are seasonal beers, beers from local one man band breweries, some large regional breweries and even the odd large national brewery creates a beer worthy of serving. There are beers you'll never see again Along with the old favourites like OSH and Hob goblin. If you take a very low estimate based purely on the fact that I visit my local 3 times a week and drink only two pints a time. then in the last 5 years I may well of sampled over 1500 different ales.
I take every possible opportunity to sample new beers, I have been on average to 3 beer festivals a year for the last 5 years and usually manage to sample in 1/3 pints around 15 ales per time. So I have sampled thousands of different beers. I do not say that I am an expert beer taster or that my thoughts on the beers are correct or that any on else should think the same but I can say that I know what I like and that I can tell the difference between a good beer that fits my preference and one that doesn't.

Now given that information can you tell me why I would want to drink the overcarbed overchilled swill that is aimed at the masses who drink not for the flavour but mainly because they are taken in by the marketing or drink to get drunk or because they need something in their hand whilst at the pub.

If I do spot a good beer on tap or I am advised that there is one I should try then I will but there is only one in my region that I have ever tried and is drinkable. I drink that if there is no Real Ale or Newcastle Brown and then it is only ever one pint. It's Theakston's Best Bitter and it is okay.

If I ever go for a social night on the town rather than out for a chat and a beer then I drink, Newcastle to start if I can get it then it's onto cocktails, vodka red bulls and shorts.

I had some @ Sierra Nevada Brewing Co in Chico Ca it was sub par IMHO NABF I guess I dont concider TRYING a beer even if it turnes outo be swill a waste of my time just send it back if it BLOWS I do, and order something else.... or start with the sampler platter always a good choice.
just my .02
JJ

As far as i'm concerned 'real ale' is a pointless phrase used to describe beer that has undergone secondary fermentation and carbonation in the vessel it is going to be served from. The definition was designed to differentiate it from force carbonated commercial keg bitters and lagers which were pushing ales out of the market.
The problem is the term 'real ale' is absolutely no guarantee of quality and certainly doesn't limit the excessive use of poor quality ingredients such as isomerised hop extract so in theory a cheap can of bargain brew lager extract made with 2 lbs of table sugar can be considered to be a real ale if it is bottle conditioned.
It is possible to produce an excellent, award winning beer but if it has been force carbonated then it isn't a 'real ale', even top pressure and cask breathers are frowned on. CAMRAs stance of the use of co2 is often brought into question, particularly by homebrewers who actually know what they are talking about.

I am going to a 'real ale' festival this weekend.

Night shift man here!
CAMRA was not mentioned by the OP.

Drunk Monkey said:

I am going to a 'real ale' festival this weekend.

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Lucky sonuva...

Some brewpubs around here have real ales on pump. I'm seriously underwhelmed by them. In every case where the ale was available on tap and "real", the tap version has been better. It may just be a matter of low demand, but stale & yeasty has been my impression. Even at the Horsebrass, they haven't been good.

david_42 said:

Some brewpubs around here have real ales on pump. I'm seriously underwhelmed by them. In every case where the ale was available on tap and "real", the tap version has been better. It may just be a matter of low demand, but stale & yeasty has been my impression. Even at the Horsebrass, they haven't been good.

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There does need to be a good volume being served. I would normally look around and see what others are drinking. If in doubt as to what to drink just ask for a taste. ...or ask the barman. Real Ales only have a small window when they are good. Buy a pint one day, best ever, go back next day and she is off. ...but then another beer is kegged!

I doubt real ales will ever see that kind of turn-over in IIPA country. With the exception of the Horsebrass, I can't think of a single place nearby that has more than one pump. The last one I had was an ESB at Pelican and the pump isn't even built into the bar. Just sat on the counter next to the keg.

orfy,
the whole reason I got into this hobby was due to my first trip to London last year and initial experiences with Real Ale found throughout. One question from that experience remains: Why is it you can only get a select few Ales seemingly everywhere, while others can only be found within a couple of specific pubs?

Yup, I know what it is and it's just not my cup of tea.

Haven't seen a cask/pump anywhere around these parts, and I guess it's not many people's cup of tea, at least in MI. Even the kegged versions don't get a lot demand, there are other choices that are just more popular.

Perhaps if not from 'over there', Orphy, you wouldn't be so partial to it-it's the environment you are in and grow up in, that has a lot to do with what you prefer for taste.

There's an old saying...'There's no accounting for taste', which means it doesn't have to make any sense for people to like something....they just do...

Let me say some thing.

"Real Ale" is a falicy it is a marketing tool used by CAMRA. It is no more real than any other quality "craft brewed" "live" ale.

It is actually cask conditioned Ale that is not pasteurised or forced primed.
It usually means that more thought care and attention has been put into it's production, storage and serving than other crap beers.

Now those who think Gosh Orfy putting ral ale down1 then you have taken me asking a question to be me pushing my views. Well those people have jumped to conclusions rather than thinking about the question and why it was asked.

g0dolphins said:

orfy,
the whole reason I got into this hobby was due to my first trip to London last year and initial experiences with Real Ale found throughout. One question from that experience remains: Why is it you can only get a select few Ales seemingly everywhere, while others can only be found within a couple of specific pubs?

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Well Like most things in life it comes down to Corporation and mass marketing. So the Big Breweries try to control the market. Hence some brands being forced onto Pubs because they have no choice.

It Comes down to whether a pub is a free house or part of a chain. Some of the "Chain" pubs are allowed to chose one ore two "Guest" Ales, others are told which guest ales to have.

Now if you are lucky like me you'll find a local that serves cask conditioned ale and is not owned by a brewery, a Freehouse. They can serve what they like when they like.:rockin: That's why it is my local!

Long like Cask conditioned Ale, even if it is called "Real Ale"

If it's local, I will drink a cask ale, but only after getting the bartender's opinion first.

The US distribution system does not make it easy for cask ales. I believe that it was Franconia Notch brewing that had a nightmare tale dealing with distributors and their cask ales. The brewing company had an order for three kegs of cask ale for a festival. The distributor dropped off three kegs at the place, but instead of using the casks just sent to the distributor, they instead grabbed three kegs that had been sitting in a uninsulated warehouse for a year. The brewery only learned of the switch on the second day of a three day festival. It was after incidents like this that they successfully sued for the rights to self-distribute, something almost unheard of in New Hampshire.

Okay, I thought I understood what Real ale is, now I am confused. I change my vote. I know I have never had the pleasure of trying any...

So, I checked out the camra site some. I do not understand what a cask is I guess. Does it have to be a wooden barrel? From the description of "real ale in a bottle" it sounds like homebrew to me? Does anyone serve there homebrew from a cask and how is it done?

I am really intrigued and would love to try it some day. Sounds like Franconia Notch used to produce "real ale"? Too bad they went out of business.

I guess short of visiting the UK I will have to figure out a way of making it myself if I want to try it?

knights of Gambrinus said:

Okay, I thought I understood what Real ale is, now I am confused. I change my vote. I know I have never had the pleasure of trying any...

So, I checked out the camra site some. I do not understand what a cask is I guess. Does it have to be a wooden barrel? From the description of "real ale in a bottle" it sounds like homebrew to me? Does anyone serve there homebrew from a cask and how is it done?

I am really intrigued and would love to try it some day. Sounds like Franconia Notch used to produce "real ale"? Too bad they went out of business.

I guess short of visiting the UK I will have to figure out a way of making it myself if I want to try it?

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Cask ale is any beer that's been allowed to naturally carbonate and condition inside the serving vessel. Just like a bottle, but bigger. They used to be wood, but are usually steel or plastic now. You serve it by using a beer machine: you pull the tap to suck the beer up and into a glass. It usually has less carbonation than kegged beers. It also takes more effort to serve, since it goes bad very quickly and needs to be stored at the right temp. But cask ales are great because they'll take on taste characteristics from their environment. Each cask will taste a tiny bit different from pub to pub, batch to batch.

Okay, understand that much, but...

What is a cask really? I have seen images online and they look like ss Kegs to me?

I do not keg but I was under the impression that folks who do keg prime and carbonate/ condition in the keg. How is this different from (other than the use of CO2 for dispensing) cask ale?

How is a beer engine different than an air pump tap like you would use on a regular keg?

Say I got some of the 5L mini-Kegs, I primed and condtioned in them, and then I tapped with an air tap to serve. Would that be Real Ale? Sorry to be so thick, I really do want to understand.

In my limited opinion, the point of cask ale is to allow oxygen to gradually enter the beer. This vastly accelerates the aging of the beer, the flavor will be different with each pint that is poured.

knights of Gambrinus said:

Okay, understand that much, but...

What is a cask really? I have seen images online and they look like ss Kegs to me?

I do not keg but I was under the impression that folks who do keg prime and carbonate/ condition in the keg. How is this different from (other than the use of CO2 for dispensing) cask ale?

How is a beer engine different than an air pump tap like you would use on a regular keg?

Say I got some of the 5L mini-Kegs, I primed and condtioned in them, and then I tapped with an air tap to serve. Would that be Real Ale? Sorry to be so thick, I really do want to understand.

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Yeah, casks look a lot like the ss kegs. The main difference is that you tap a keg on the top and use the CO2 to push the beer. A keg has a much simpler tap system--you knock a hole in the side of the cask as it's lying on the opposite side. The suction created by the beer machine is then what pulls the beer.

You can get similar effects from naturally conditioning in a keg, but you don't get the gradual oxidization that Vermicous mentioned. Also, I might be wrong on this, but I'm fairly sure that with a cask, you don't prime for carbonation. The cask is used like a sealed secondary fermenter, so the beer is still actively fermenting down in the bar's cellar. I bet you could get similar results from using an air pump in a mini-keg if you rack straight to it from primary. Worth a try.

knights of Gambrinus said:

I guess short of visiting the UK I will have to figure out a way of making it myself if I want to try it?

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KoG in all probability you already are making and drinking 'real ale' homebrew pretty much ticks all the boxes ie its unfiltered, unpasteurised and naturally conditioned. The only place you will come of the rails so to speak is if you force carboanate your beer in cornies otherwise you're making 'real ale' already (and any CAMRA members i know who homebrew take this with a very liberal teaspoon of salt and carb it anyway, even ORFY would probably have to own up to using a blast of CO2 to sit the corny lid and seal it).

Im actually really surprised that the ideals of CAMRA and what they stand for seems to meet with quite a lot of cynicism and resistance on a homebrew forum, where in all likelyhood those posting are making 'real ale' even if they don't actually serve it from a cask with a handpump.

Maybe thats part of the problem here people mistaking what it actually is, we should re-run the poll and ask if people believe in keeping live yeast in their beer or not, im guessing we'd be in the high 90s for 'live' beer over 'dead'.

Yes craft home brew is 90% of the way to being "Real" Ale.

Real ale is actually more correctly called Cask Conditioned Ale.
It means it's not force carbonated, pasteurised or messed about with by adding chemical.
Casks do look very similar to kegs apart from they usually have a hole for the tap and a hole for a breather.

I use my corny kegs as casks.
I naturally carbonate and just keep enough pressure in the keg to keep a positive pressure.

CAMRA do seem to annoy those who don't quite understand what they do.

Does the UK have a counterpart to Ralph Nader?

I love cask conditioned ale - I've done it here with my corneys by naturally carbonating in the keg. I know it's not really the same as an oak cask, but it's still great beer.

CAMRA doesn't annoy me like it does some people. I think they serve a valid purpose - if you didn't have vocal advocates for real ale it probably would have disappeared years ago.

orfy said:

Casks do look very similar to kegs apart from they usually have a hole for the tap and a hole for a breather.

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I am not really familiar with mini kegs, but from what I understand they have a tap hole and a breather hole(?) So maybe a mini-keg would work well. Also, in terms of size it could be consumed before getting too oxidised, which if I undersatnd correctly can happen to Real Ale if it sits too long. Though I still do not understnad the whole air tap versus beer engine. Probably because I have no experieince with any kegging equipment.

orfy said:

CAMRA do seem to annoy those who don't quite understand what they do.

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CAMRA doesn't annoy me. I genuinely want to understnd but I had a difficult time finding the answers to my questions on their site. It seems to be geared toward those who are already in the know. That and I am not that smart I guess

orfy said:

Yes craft home brew is 90% of the way to being "Real" Ale.

Real ale is actually more correctly called Cask Conditioned Ale.
It means it's not force carbonated, pasteurised or messed about with by adding chemical.

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Okay, so does this mean no finings are used either? Do you add priming sugar to the cask? If not, is there a certain point it needs to be added to the cask so there is enough sugars present? Is only one fermentation vessel used before racking to the cask and generally how long is it intially fermented for?
I suppose bottle conditioned beers are not quite "real ale" in that they do not get exposed to the air as much unless you were to pour a glass and let it sit for some time, but then it would be flat...

Sorry to be such a pita, I think I am starting to understand.