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sdochughes

sdochughes

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Howdy all,

Quick question. Speaking strictly of the mash, if I want to brew up a dry beer, and I mash at 145-150 for some given length of time, do I then need to move up into the alpha region and mash there for a given length of time in order to finish the sugar cleaving? Or can I just brew in that 145-150 range and expect that Alpha has enough activity there to break my starches down completely along with the Beta.
Cheers!
 
No, you can just stay in that temperature range if you wish. There is plenty of Alpha activity at that temperature. The Beta/Alpha ranges overlap, they don't turn on & off like a light switch at one particular temperature.
 
Thanks,

But I do wonder, would it increase the fermentability some to do say, 30 min at 145 then ramp it to 154 for 30min. I know the ranges overlap, I just wasn't sure if this was practiced at all.
 
I don't think it would increase fermentability so much as flavor and body of the beer. Mashing at 145-50 will get you a very fermentable wort, more so that mashing at 154. Most of your conversion happens in the first 15-20 mins of the mash, so ramping up temps after that to 154 would probably get you some more unfermentables in your very fermentable wort, giving you some added flavor and extra body without affecting fermentability too much.
 
NordeastBrewer77 said:
I don't think it would increase fermentability so much as flavor and body of the beer. Mashing at 145-50 will get you a very fermentable wort, more so that mashing at 154. Most of your conversion happens in the first 15-20 mins of the mash, so ramping up temps after that to 154 would probably get you some more unfermentables in your very fermentable wort, giving you some added flavor and extra body without affecting fermentability too much.
Click to expand...

I don't see how you'd get more unfermentables going low-to-high. The low beta rest should yield mostly fermentable sugars, with the primary unfermentable being short, branched sugars. But the increased alpha activity at the higher temp rest should convert most of the branched sugars to mono- and disaccharides, yielding a highly fermentable wort.

Now when alpha activity is emphasized over beta (eg, a single infusion at 158 F) you get a lot of unfermentable dextrans, but dextrans should be insignificant if beta has been there first. In the context of the mash, the reaction of longer chains to shorter chains is essentially irreversible.
 
corax said:
I don't see how you'd get more unfermentables going low-to-high. The low beta rest should yield mostly fermentable sugars, with the primary unfermentable being short, branched sugars. But the increased alpha activity at the higher temp rest should convert most of the branched sugars to mono- and disaccharides, yielding a highly fermentable wort.

Now when alpha activity is emphasized over beta (eg, a single infusion at 158 F) you get a lot of unfermentable dextrans, but dextrans should be insignificant if beta has been there first. In the context of the mash, the reaction of longer chains to shorter chains is essentially irreversible.
Click to expand...

Lower temperature (145-150) produces a more fermentable wort, while higher mash temps produce more dextrins. So if you raise temps, you produce more unfermentables. Like you said, that's insignificant if you've already done a lower temp rest to create a very fermentable wort.
 
NordeastBrewer77 said:
Lower temperature (145-150) produces a more fermentable wort, while higher mash temps produce more dextrins. So if you raise temps, you produce more unfermentables.
Click to expand...

Higher temps only produce dextrins (chains of 3 or more sugars) if beta activity is minimized. If beta has already gone first, there are no more long chains left for alpha to produce dextrins from. Alpha can't build dextrins from mono- and disaccharides (at least not under the conditions in the mash), it can only chop them out of even longer chain starches. In a two-step program the only thing left for alpha to do is to chop up the branched sugars left by beta.
 
corax said:
Higher temps only produce dextrins (chains of 3 or more sugars) if beta activity is minimized. If beta has already gone first, there are no more long chains left for alpha to produce dextrins from. Alpha can't build dextrins from mono- and disaccharides (at least not under the conditions in the mash), it can only chop them out of even longer chain starches. In a two-step program the only thing left for alpha to do is to chop up the branched sugars left by beta.
Click to expand...

Ah, that makes sense. The sugars are already broken down before in the first step.
 
So essentially, the beta rest is slower , but more complete( i.e. no more dextrin) the alpha rest is more aggressive , but leaves non-fermentable dextrins , which as we all know, contributes to a fuller body/mouth feel. I guess, I thought maybe there was sugar cleaving action that was exclusive to the alpha rest. If there is no merit in doing this kind of stepped rest schedule, i guess that answers my question.
 
sdochughes said:
I thought maybe there was sugar cleaving action that was exclusive to the alpha rest. If there is no merit in doing this kind of stepped rest schedule, i guess that answers my question.
Click to expand...

There is alpha-specific activity: alpha can convert unfermentable, branched-chain sugars to simple, fermentable sugars. So, if you set up conditions where both enzymes can function optimally (such as the two-step program being discussed) you should get maximally attenuated wort.
 

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