Questions about stuff in cider

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HAREEBROWNBEEST

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I have 2 carboys that are begging to be filled with something special. It's going to be cider and I want to do some sort of steeping with maybe some oats, cinnamon sticks, vanilla beans maybe some nutmeg? I want to get a oatmeal apple cookie taste if that's possible. I plan on doing two separate 2 gallon batches. Is there anything I should watch out for or possibly not do from anyone's prior experience? I'm going to place my order to northern brewer tomorrow and get started as soon as my stuff gets here.
 
I'd personally avoid adding oats to the cider. If you really want to do it anyways, I'd consider doing it to only half the batch, and doing it like a graff. It would require the use of some 2-row to actually convert the oats. A mash ratio of perhaps 3:1 oats to 2-row should work, but you'll probably want to use the BIAB technique, as a traditional sparge would definitely get stuck with anywhere near such a high proportion of oats.

Also, go easy on the spices. A little goes a loooong way, and it's easy to overdo it. You can always add more spice, but you can't take it out. Getting the spice level right also requires tasting it constantly, even if only a little bit. The longer the spices are steeped, the stronger their presence will be, so consider grinding the spices (freshly ground is ideal) and putting it in a very fine mesh bag, leaving the tie-off string at the top so that the bag can be removed when you find the spice level to be perfect. Spices that will work well include cinnamon, nutmeg, dry ginger, allspice, and cloves.

It's also very possible that you'll find that vanilla actually clashes with everything else (especially in more noticeable quantities), so wait until the end to add some vanilla extract, and make sure to test it on a small sample first! Once you find the ideal dosage, then you can scale it up to the full batch. If you really want to use actual vanilla bean, you'd be best off steeping the vanilla bean in a bit of vodka or other neutral grain alcohol for a few months, and then following the same process that was mentioned above for store-bought vanilla extract.

Good luck!
 
Wow that's a lot of great info, thanks. I will definitely go easy on the spices and maybe ditch the oats idea, maybe some hops? Not sure now but thanks again for the insight. I just want something different.
 
No problem. But two more things...

1) I'd personally avoid hops altogether, ESPECIALLY if you're trying to emulate a cookie, and would use oats in a recipe like this way before I'd ever add hops. (In fact, oats would in all likelihood be good in SMALL amounts if done like a graff as I explained above, and would add a nice silky texture - if you don't mind doing a BIAB mash, I'd actually go so far as to *recommend* it, in retrospect). As for hops, you could probably get away with just a tiny bittering charge (but no flavor/aroma additions) of a low-alpha strain (no more than 10-15IBUs in the finished product), but most people would definitely prefer it without hops, and you'll probably find it to be a waste of time/effort/money. If you actually decide to use hops, this is doubtlessly something you'd want to add to only half the batch. Also...

2) With all these spices and whatnot, it will be best with some degree of sweetness. With this in mind, you'll want to decide on a strategy for either leaving residual sugars or backsweetening. The easiest method is just to use a non-fermentable sugar. A good amount of lactose would be great, as not only will the sweetness of lactose have a very appropriate character, but it will add a fair amount of body in addition to the sweetness, which should be very desirable in a liquid "cookie"! I think 2 pounds (or a pound in each half-batch) will provide a good level, but this is another ingredient where it's best to experiment with a small sample and then scale up. Lactose isn't as sweet as most people think (about 1/6th the sweetness of table sugar), so you could very possibly end up wanting to use even more, but I doubt you'd decide to use less than a pound overall.
 
So here's my idea 1lb oatmeal flakes, 1lb of briess organic crushed, steep in mesh bag at 155-158* for one hour in two gallons of juice, cool back down to 74*, add yeast and go from there, throw in some cinnamon sticks in secondary or primary? Not sure just yet and add apple extract for taste.
 
HAREEBROWNBEEST said:
So here's my idea 1lb oatmeal flakes, 1lb of briess organic crushed, steep in mesh bag at 155-158* for one hour in two gallons of juice, cool back down to 74*, add yeast and go from there, throw in some cinnamon sticks in secondary or primary? Not sure just yet and add apple extract for taste.

Well not heat the juice, heat water and when cooled add juice concentrate.
 
HAREEBROWNBEEST said:
Well not heat the juice, heat water and when cooled add juice concentrate.

That sounds better. Use the concentrate for additional flavoring as well, instead of extract.
 
So in my second carboy i plan on doing a 2 gallon apple cider with additions of honey and fresh strawberries. Honey in the primary and the strawberries also into the primary, back sweeten with some 100% juice concentrate in secondary for sweetness. As soon as my stuff comes i will post pics of the processes:mug:
 
HAREEBROWNBEEST said:
So in my second carboy i plan on doing a 2 gallon apple cider with additions of honey and fresh strawberries. Honey in the primary and the strawberries also into the primary, back sweeten with some 100% juice concentrate in secondary for sweetness. As soon as my stuff comes i will post pics of the processes:mug:

I recommend doing the strawberries in the secondary. The bubbles that come up during fermentation kind of "scrub" the aromatics out, so you want as little of that as possible after adding fruit. If you want to put them in the primary anyways, then at the very least, wait until fermentation is FINISHED before doing so. This is a good idea when adding *any* fruit, but strawberries in particular have a very delicate aroma and flavor profile - most of the "flavor" of a strawberry comes from the sugar itself, and when that sweetness isn't there (if, for example, the sugar's been converted to alcohol), there isn't much of anything left. So it's import to do everything you can to make sure as much of it STAYS in the cider/mead/beer/wine as possible, rather than losing what little there actually is.

For the same reason, try to get the best quality strawberries you can, possibly an heirloom variety as possible. You want strawberries that have a lot of actual FLAVOR (not necessarily sweetness - it's a VERY important distinction), and not necessarily ones that look the best. Modern varieties were bred to look great at the grocery store so that they sell, not necessarily to taste the best... and this is true of most fruit. A good place to look is at the farmer's market - a vendor who can tell you the actual variety of the fruit is usually a good sign.
 
Thanks. I live in strawberry country, we get the best around here (Ventura county) so I will add them to my secondary. Do they stay on top, do I slice them up, use them whole? Are they a pain to siphon through? I've never done a fruit addition yet. How long should they stay in the second? Thanks, your like a cider Jedi.
 
HAREEBROWNBEEST said:
Thanks. I live in strawberry country, we get the best around here (Ventura county) so I will add them to my secondary. Do they stay on top, do I slice them up, use them whole? Are they a pain to siphon through? I've never done a fruit addition yet. How long should they stay in the second? Thanks, your like a cider Jedi.

Heh, hardly.

The best way to use them is to first freeze them, and then thaw them (and possibly even repeating). The ice crystals that form will puncture the cell walls and make the juices much more accessible to the yeast. You can throw them in just like that, or mush them up/puree them... in any case, I'd remove the leaves.


Keep the tip of the autosiphon out of the gunk on the bottom and you should be fine. I'd personally keep the cider on the strawberries for at least 3 months, but 4-6 months is better. I'll have to check my notes, but a pound of strawberries per gallon is a good number, if I recall correctly (it MIGHT be more).

If you use fruit in the cider, I'd really recommend using sulfite (in the form of campden tablets, most likely) in order to keep any wild yeast or bacteria present on the fruit in check. With beer, hops usually provide the extra antimicrobial activity needed, but with anything else, it's best to play it safe, IMO.
 
I freeze then rinse in one step throw them in the funnel and push them thru the hole effectively squishing them. In a very short time 4-7 days you won't recognize them and they've lost all the flavor. That's when I rack again.
 
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