Question about Wyeast 4335/5335 (lactobacillus)

Currently fermenting a holiday ale (Stille Nacht). This is my 5th batch ever.

Recipe from Beer Captured called for the addition of Wyeast 4335 once the wort was transferred to secondary carboy. My local supply store did not carry this particular strand of yeast. When I went to order it on line, I had difficulty finding it as well. What I did find was Wyeast 5335 – Lactobacillus. Assuming that Wyeast Laboratories changed numbers after my book was printed, I ordered the yeast and received in the mail a few days later. Immediately put bag in refrigerator.

Unlike other Wyeast bags, this bag did not have the inner nutrient bag inside. So there was nothing to bust to get the yeast ready to pitch.

Yesterday took 5335 bag out of refrigerator and waited for it to inflate. It never did. Transferred wort from primary to secondary without adding the yeast. Instead added yeast to a starter bottle after boiling ½ cup of extra light malt and a couple hops with 2 cups of water. This morning there is virtually no activity in the airlock.

A few questions:
1. Is this yeast no good? Do I need to get another bag? Should have it inflated in the bag? Is there a 4335 or was I correct that this strand is now 5335?

2. When using Lacto yeast, is it really necessary to use separate equipment (carboy, tubing, airlock, etc.) if I clean all the equipment containing it really, really well?

This is probably a silly question. But I'm new to this and don't want to waste a lot of money or a lot of beer by making a stupid mistake. Thanks in advance for your help.

I don’t have any experience brewing sour beer but I do have an interest in it. I’m willing to bet that the lacto strain will not act like your typical brewers yeast strain in the carboy. For what you’re doing the best thing you could do for your beer is be patient. Maybe this info on the Wyeast site will help: http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_productdetail.cfm?ProductID=17
It says in there that “Cultures may take between 1-12 months to produce desired effects.” Also, they recommend inoculation during primary fermentation. I don’t think it will matter that you did it in the secondary, but it may taken even longer to show any signs. Whereas your basic Saccharomyces may take up to 3 days to show signs, I would say you may want to wait 3 months before you should worry. And yes, I believe the 5335 is what you want four the lacto strain.

Also, UKAlum, I think the answer to your second question would be a very interesting topic. Many brewers have a fear about bringing wild yeasts, specifically Brettanomyces, into their brewery, and it makes sense to think, ‘well if I clean my stuff real well I shouldn’t have to worry about it,’ but the fear goes beyond that and even the use of other equipment. What happens is not that there is some residue in your bucket or stained into it. When you use wild yeast in your brewery you are “releasing” them. It will be in the air, on the walls and in the carpet. It gets in what wine makers call the terroir. Essentially speaking you would not just need separate equipment but another room, or even another house, to brew in; maybe change clothes as you enter and leave.

But like I said, I haven’t brewed a sour beer but I’d like to. Will all your beers be sour once you open that one pack of Wyeast? I doubt it, but it is an interesting thing to think about. There was one brewer who said it was a matter of accepting it, not fear it. And I think he was talking about Brett. I don’t know if all wild yeasts are to be feared the same.

…and to follow up on your first question, check this out. It comes from Randy Mosher’s Radical Brewing,
“I have had good results from the liquid mixed lambic cultures, added after primary fermentation is complete. These critters are rather slow in the chow line, so expect to wait a few months before you get much effect from them. I would let them have at it for three months, then have a taste.”

Thanks David. I figured when I opened the yeast packet and saw that it did not contain a nutrient sack, that I was probably dealing with an unusual strand of yeast. I'll probably go ahead and add my starter to the secondary carboy. Hopefully by Christmas I'll be fine. If not I have another Holiday Ale already bottled and waiting for December to get here. Thanks again for the help.

Glad I could help. And if it does all work out try and see if you can't hold out a full year on some of it. That would make quite the Christmas treat next year, too. Just a suggestion.

That's my plan. Actually hoping to save the majority of the batch for next year.

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