Milk Stout with Real Milk

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Micycle

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Hard to find any info that doesn't just say use lactose. I'm interested in using real milk for a milk stout. Anyone done this before? any suggestions?
 
A milk stout made with real milk is going to be pretty unpleasant. You don't want the fat and protien from the milk, just the sugar. Someone else will hit us with all the science but I think you'll end up with a curdled stout.
 
I figured that'd be the problem. I've heard stories of people attempting them, but never any success or failure stories.
 
I have no idea, so I'm NOT speaking from experience. But, I've accidently left milk out on the counter overnight. If that is a hint of what fermented milk would taste like, I want no part of it!

I do make cheese, though, so I know that something about cultures. The idea with cheese is that you want enough bacteria to acidify the milk so that it sets up curds. But then, you want it to stop at the right point. If you had something that fermented the milk, I don't know how you'd stop it and it would also cause a lacto infection in the beer.

Someone posted a while back about making a milk wine. That might be worth a read, to see if this is something you're really interested in.
 
I guess I'm wondering why you would want to make a milk stout with milk? Milk Stout is defined by the use of lactose for sweetness, not milk. Even if you wanted to attempt matching the lactose with real milk, the lactose content of milk is about 10g/cup. A typical milk stout would have about a pound (450g) of lactose per 5 gallons. You would need almost 3 gallons of milk to have an equivalent lactose content.
 
I'm making a stout with real milk now, only a small 2 gallon tester in case its horrible!
Milk curdles at pH4.6, with beer generally being around more acidic so I've brewed up a porter and then adjusted the pH to 6.0 with bicarbonate of soda. Then I added the milk and its in secondary. I'll let you know how it tastes...
 
Actually I've had fermented mare's milk several times on travels to Asia. Not bad but a fairly sour taste -- rather reminiscent of the old, old stouts produced in casks. If you go ahead with this, I would definitely recommend skim milk -- the fat could really muck it up.
 
I'm making a stout with real milk now, only a small 2 gallon tester in case its horrible!
Milk curdles at pH4.6, with beer generally being around more acidic so I've brewed up a porter and then adjusted the pH to 6.0 with bicarbonate of soda. Then I added the milk and its in secondary. I'll let you know how it tastes...

Not sure adjusting the pH is a great idea. Low pH acts as a bacteriostat in fermented food/beverages. Now that you've adjusted the pH to what is a more suitable range for bacterial growth you might have some problems. Also, you just inoculated with milk that already is contaminated with lactobacteria. Not sure if botulism is also a problem-you might be OK with the preservative qualities of alcohol and hops. Not that I would bet my life on it though...
 
+1

"Milk stout" is more of a figure of speech than a real definition of what it is. Like a nut brown ale not really using nuts.

Exactly. I don't want to sound like an asshat, but this is an absolute terrible idea. "Milk Stout" is, and has NEVER been made with milk. Its actually more of a marketing name given to sweet stouts with lactose added to appeal to nursing women in the heyday of porters and stouts in England.
 
Yeah, I don't think I'd even want to test a sample of something with milk that's been sitting out at room temperature for weeks. This thread is frightening me.
 
Thanks for the comments guys.
I realise milk stout is not supposed to be made with real milk, but there are fermented milk drinks out there so I wanted to give it a try out of curiosity. Only kept milk in there 2 days in fear of spoiling without refrigeration - in short as suspected it didn't taste too good.
Was thick and creamy but a very sour aftertaste, ended up down the sink.
You could, I suppose, make a posset with beer (add warm cream and mulling spices) should you particularly want a diary beer.
 
I have been wondering this for a while, so I decided to go ahead and give it a try. I made chai latte ale with skim milk. I added the milk when I transfered the beer to secondary. I didn't want milk fat in my beer because I think it would ruin the head. I was a little concerned at first that maybe the protein in the milk would spoil, but the results are a delicious clear and creamy chai ale. The protein will curdle, but then it just precipitates out of the beer. Obviously their is a history to using milk in beer. I don't think they used lactose when milk stout was invented.
 
Obviously their is a history to using milk in beer. I don't think they used lactose when milk stout was invented.

From 2008 BJCP guidelines:

History: An English style of stout. Historically known as “Milk” or “Cream” stouts, legally this designation is no longer permitted in England (but is acceptable elsewhere). The “milk” name is derived from the use of lactose, or milk sugar, as a sweetener.
 
+1 Milk stouts weren't around that long. They've always been named that from the use of lactose, not from the use of milk in the beer.

Use lactose. Save spoiled milk for the slags!
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I've had kumis - Mongolian-style fermented milk. It was passable - kinda like drinking the liquid off the top of a tub of yogurt, with estery and alcohol notes.

I like a good stout. I'd drink kumis again, if I run into some Mongolians (and the Mongolians have polished off all their other bevvies.) I wouldn't try mix the two.
 
I have been wondering this for a while, so I decided to go ahead and give it a try. I made chai latte ale with skim milk. I added the milk when I transfered the beer to secondary. I didn't want milk fat in my beer because I think it would ruin the head. I was a little concerned at first that maybe the protein in the milk would spoil, but the results are a delicious clear and creamy chai ale. The protein will curdle, but then it just precipitates out of the beer. Obviously their is a history to using milk in beer. I don't think they used lactose when milk stout was invented.

This sounds delicious. I have access to a dairy farm with real raw milk and trying to find things to do with it. Beer would be a welcomed addition. Could you direct me to some more specific directions to attempt this please.

I was also wondering if i could just make my own lactose out of the milk?
 
Going to try this except with evaporated milk during the boil (mostly bc i want the concentrated form of the solids) as far as deriving lactose from milk, take whey from a cheese/yogurt process and add ethanol, the lactose should be insoluble and precipitate out, the outline of this method is described here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose, not sure of the minimum purity the ethanol has to be (everclear would prbs work best) but the greater the purity, the more yield you should get. Do a little more reserach and see what you come up with. I'm looking to add sweetness (lactose) and creaminess (proteins) to a stout by adding the evaporated milk. I'm not worried about the fat ruining the head bc I am confident that if I overpitch the yeast a little they'll do a good job of sucking that up and leaving it at the bottom of the fermenter. Will post pics and a detailed experimental process overview this weekend. If it works out okay, it'll be a heck of a lot cheaper (and more available) than just adding lactose, and I could cut flaked oats/barley out of my bill as well, guess we'll see what happens. SCIENCE.
 
From 2008 BJCP guidelines:

History: An English style of stout. Historically known as “Milk” or “Cream” stouts, legally this designation is no longer permitted in England (but is acceptable elsewhere). The “milk” name is derived from the use of lactose, or milk sugar, as a sweetener.
Historically, they are known as "Milk" or "Cream" stouts, as the full body of this beer was originally borne from incorporating milk/unfermented sugar before bottle. The classic surviving example of milk stout is Mackeson's, who claimed that "each pint contains the energizing carbohydrates of 10 ounces of pure dairy milk".
 
"Historically, they are known as "Milk" or "Cream" stouts, as the full body of this beer was originally borne from incorporating milk/unfermented sugar before bottle. The classic surviving example of milk stout is Mackeson's, who claimed that "each pint contains the energizing carbohydrates of 10 ounces of pure dairy milk". Milk stout was believed to be nutritious, and was recommended to nursing mothers. In 1875, John Henry Johnson first sought a patent for a milk beer, based on whey, lactose, and hops.[1] [Although, Mackeson is now made with lactose instead of whey], it still bears on its label the milk churn that has been its trademark since it was first brewed in 1907."

http://www.stoutday.com/about-stout-a-history-lesson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mackeson_Stout#cite_note-1
 
This sounds delicious. I have access to a dairy farm with real raw milk and trying to find things to do with it. Beer would be a welcomed addition. Could you direct me to some more specific directions to attempt this please.

I was also wondering if i could just make my own lactose out of the milk?
I boiled the skim milk with ginger and cardamom. Cooled it down in the pan with the lid on. Then I mixed this into the carboy with my beer as I transferred it to secondary. I let it sit for about a month at room temperature (~65 degrees). A large amount of protein settled out in the first few days. It seems like using whey could be better because most of the protein is already removed and can be used to make cheese.
 
I'm surprised no one has suggested using Irish Cream as a way to achieve the same thing.

Another thing about adding other milk products, such as cheese or yogurt, is the lactose that your wanting may already have been consumed by the bacteria.
 
There is a thread in the mead Forum where a guy combined mead methods and Koumiss which is a traditional fermented Mares milk drink from central asia. This methodology could work for a Milk Stout Variation. He said the mead came out very smooth with a tangy nuttiness he attributes to the milk.

Oh and as to the Lambic comments, since they didn't have packaged yeast nutrients back in the day, they would often Hang a leg of Beef/lamb/goat into the open Fermenter for the yeasties to much on. So, not too wild an idea :D

When I get back to Canada I thik I'm gonna give this a try.
 
I'm surprised no one has suggested using Irish Cream as a way to achieve the same thing.

Another thing about adding other milk products, such as cheese or yogurt, is the lactose that your wanting may already have been consumed by the bacteria.

Wouldn't the acidity of the beer just curdle the Irish cream, a la Irish Car Bomb that hasn't been chugged quickly enough?
 
Hey guys,
Is anyone able to send me a pail from India? I need some authentic ingredients for my IPA.
Thanks
SHAL
 
Milk or cream stouts were originally made with whey. This is a great method because you remove the protein to make cheese and keep the lactose in the whey for your beer!
 
The first patent for a milk stout recipe include whey rather than milk. This is a great method because you remove the protein from the milk to make cheese. Then the lactose is left in the whey for making beer.
 
...I'd try mixing some milk with a stout and then report back on how tasty that was :)

I actually just tried mixing some 1% milk with a friend's 11% Russian Imperial Stout and it was pretty good! It really mellowed the stout quite well. I mixed it roughly 50/50, about 4oz worth. My kind of dessert!
 
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