I am excited about my 1st competition

Yep i am, it doesn't open for another month and judging is in march but im already tasting my beers. Im drinking RIS right now that i pampered for 6months of fermentation/conditioning, same recipe done 2nd time and it is fantastic. Last Saturday i tried 2 bottles of belgian double (split batch fermented with two different strains) and i am totally disappointed, i did this recipe before and it was much much better, i thought about not sending it but hell i want the notes. Then i have BDS, month ago i had some not fully carbonated sample and it wasnt good i hope it will be better after some time in the bottle. I haven't tried vanilla stout yet but i have good feeling about this one, and then i have my own design saison that i like very much. Im thinking about adding triples but its rather old and im not crazy about it so maybe 5 beers will be enough for the 1st time. Anyway i thought i would share my excitement here , whats your take on the competitions?

Wow, you're a fan of big beers!

Competitions are great. I actually won Category 23 and got 2nd place Best in Show in a local competition last year for a weird beer that most of the judges had never tried before so it's rather validating. It's incredibly exciting but not only that you can great notes from people who know what they're talking about... mostly

Good luck! I hope your brews do really well. Be sure to keep us updated.

I've known some people will send in 12-20 beers for one competition. Crazy! Hell, I saw a guy deliver TWO CASES one time. 24 beers in one comp! (I don't know how he did, but let's hope it'd be well. Haha.)

Good luck to you!

I've found competitions to be extremely subjective and a bit of a joke. For example, brewing an English Old Ale will almost guarantee poor rests since it will be tasted side by side with barley wines. Almost all old ales will taste bland compared to a barley wine, even if its a perfect representation of the style, and I've found most judges can't compensate for a tired palate so beers judged later in a flight will get a much different judging than a beer early in the round.

Due to a mix up last year at my LHBS I accidentally entered a contest twice with the same beer. Early in the round I scored a 38, but the SAME BEER judged by the SAME JUDGE later in the round received a 22. His handwriting was worse, and so was his judging ability. I've basically written off competitions now. Winning or losing is no more an indicator of your brewing skill as a scratch ticket is an indicator of your gambling skills.

BudzAndSudz said:

I've found competitions to be extremely subjective and a bit of a joke. For example, brewing an English Old Ale will almost guarantee poor rests since it will be tasted side by side with barley wines. Almost all old ales will taste bland compared to a barley wine, even if its a perfect representation of the style, and I've found most judges can't compensate for a tired palate so beers judged later in a flight will get a much different judging than a beer early in the round.

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I judged in a comp last year and gave an Old Ale first, an Old Ale second and an English Barleywine third. Old Ales done right deserve recognition!

BudzAndSudz said:

Due to a mix up last year at my LHBS I accidentally entered a contest twice with the same beer. Early in the round I scored a 38, but the SAME BEER judged by the SAME JUDGE later in the round received a 22. His handwriting was worse, and so was his judging ability. I've basically written off competitions now. Winning or losing is no more an indicator of your brewing skill as a scratch ticket is an indicator of your gambling skills.

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I invite you to judge beers for 8 straight hours (or more!) and see how your skills stack up! Personally, I drink very little of each beer for this exact reason. Some judges (usually less experienced, but not always) seem to drink their entire sample every time.

AmandaK said:

I invite you to judge beers for 8 straight hours (or more!) and see how your skills stack up! Personally, I drink very little of each beer for this exact reason. Some judges (usually less experienced, but not always) seem to drink their entire sample every time.

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Saying "nuh uh, you try it!" doesn't make my point any less valid.

I appreciate your personal abilities as a judge, but I'm simply saying not all judges have your restraint, and the scoring system suffers greatly for it.

I'm not a fan of paying people to drink my beer but there is a local competition here in Indiana called "UpCup" that is run by Upland Brewing Co. in Bloomington. It is a ton of fun. Really good catered food and all the homebrew you can possibly drink. All for the price of entering your beer into competition.

BudzAndSudz said:

Saying "nuh uh, you try it!" doesn't make my point any less valid.

I appreciate your personal abilities as a judge, but I'm simply saying not all judges have your restraint, and the scoring system suffers greatly for it.

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Valid point. The BJCP (and your local comps) are greatly in need of judges who want to give good feedback - perhaps you could be one of them someday?

If it makes you feel better, I've gotten TERRIBLE score sheets back. Some quick examples:
1) A BGSA with remarks like: "Aroma, good. Color, good. Flavor, good." Did not even bother to fill out the overall impression. 40/50. Did not advance to Mini-BOS.
2) My personal favorite. A rauchbier. "Aroma: smoke. Flavor: smoke." 38/50. Nothing else was written on the score sheet.


My point is, we need a lot more quality judges to improve the overall quality of competitions. My practice is to fill out the score sheet as if I was receiving it. I just wish everyone else could/would do that.



Sorry to OT the thread, OP.

Polboy,

Which competition are you entering? I have a guess based on the time frame you mentioned and your location.

AmandaK said:

. . . . . . . Mini-BOS. . . . . . . .

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AmandaK, what is mini-BOS, I have a 3rd place in the Vail Big Beers competition that currently has a check in the mini-BOS column, what does this signify? Is it still in the running for something or is this pre BOS? Haven't gotten that far in the BJCP books or just missed it somewhere.

Sorry for the thread HJ as well, although it is related to judging so may be on topic.

COLObrewer said:

AmandaK, what is mini-BOS, I have a 3rd place in the Vail Big Beers competition that currently has a check in the mini-BOS column, what does this signify? Is it still in the running for something or is this pre BOS? Haven't gotten that far in the BJCP books or just missed it somewhere.

Sorry for the thread HJ as well, although it is related to judging so may be on topic.

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The way a lot of competitions work is that the the beers are split up into categories. Sometimes these categories are the BJCP main categories (1-23), sometimes more, sometimes less. Sets of judges critique each beer in their flight. If there are two (or more) sets of judges, the categories are split evenly between judge sets.

When there are two or more sets of judges, each set will pick a top 2-4 beers to send on to the 'mini best of show' or BOS. The best beers out of each judges' flights is compared between the other top beers in that category. This is the mini-BOS. This is how judges award 1st, 2nd & 3rd. It is also why a beer that scores a 40 can get a third while a beer that scores a 38 gets first.

If you went to 'mini-BOS' but did not get a medal, that means that at least one judge thought your beer was good enough to medal. However, when it came down to your beer vs all the other great beers in the category, yours was not in the top 3. It's quite an accomplishment to make it to mini-BOS.

The competition BOS is another thing entirely. The first place beer in each category is entered into another 'Best of Show' in which 3-5 of the highest ranking, most experienced judges do a 'speed round' of sorts to judge 20 beers all at once to determine the top three beers for the entire competition. Those beers get first place in their category and a 'BOS' title on top of it.

So are you saying the mini-BOS is a second judging to determine 1st, 2nd and 3rd but they dont actually score the second round? I don't understand otherwise how a lower score could be first. I did get third place in the Belgian Specialty category with a 34. I haven't got any scoresheets back so kinda blind, maybe that will shed more light. Thanx, sorry again for the hijack, I guess I should take this private.

Is this the one at the brew hut (drydock)?

KurtB said:

Polboy,

Which competition are you entering? I have a guess based on the time frame you mentioned and your location.

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I looked around for local competitions and from what i was able to gather i really like Drunk Monk Challenge (http://knaves.org/DMC/index.html).
Im still not sure how many beers to submit, i guess i have to taste them all (when fully carbonated) before making final decision

I assumed it would be the DMC based on the timeframes you listed. I am a member of the Urban Knaves of Grain and will be entering it as well. At least 2, maybe 3 different beers depending on how the Altbier turns out.

There is a lot of great beer at this competition. The number of entries has been growing every year at a rapid pace (more than 100 new entries every year for the past 3+ years if I remember correctly). They are going to be limiting it to 850 total entries this year to keep it from getting "too big". Plan on getting your registration in early.

Good Luck with your entires.

So i have a 2 questions. When i register (per suggestion i want to do it ASAP) do i have to give all the info for all the beers im submiting or i can do it later?, im asking cuz i have 4 beers that are split batches (fermented with different yeast) and i would like to evaluate them as close to the comp as possible and pick one i like more, so when i register do i need to put yeast strain i used?
2nd question, how is the competition day?, is everyone invited, can i just walk in, can i bring my 3year old with me, wife, do you try beers and get buzzed as a result or should i stay home and wait for results in the mail (from some pictures it looked like gathering/party for homebrewers)

AmandaK said:

If it makes you feel better, I've gotten TERRIBLE score sheets back. Some quick examples:
1) A BGSA with remarks like: "Aroma, good. Color, good. Flavor, good." Did not even bother to fill out the overall impression. 40/50. Did not advance to Mini-BOS.
2) My personal favorite. A rauchbier. "Aroma: smoke. Flavor: smoke." 38/50. Nothing else was written on the score sheet.

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I brewed a Belgian IPA once and submitted it to Cat 16E (Belgian Specialty). It was the first time I'd submitted it to competition and really wanted feedback. The judging was a joke.

In addition to his other boneheaded comments, the judge actually put on there to check for hot-side aeration. Which is a phenomenon that not everyone is really sure is important, and which is primarily related to long-term shelf stability of the beer, when this beer was only ~6 weeks old at the time of judging.

I've had great feedback from a lot of judges, but this guy was clearly looking for reasons to pan the beer and sound more impressive than he was...

Polboy,
When you register (and pay) you are basically holding a spot. You can make changes to what you have registered up until the close of the registration period (which also corresponds with the last possible day you can turn in beer as well).

I don't know too much about judging day other than what is in the pictures, but from what I have heard it does hold a bit of a party atmosphere, while still keeping the judging serious . This year will be my first year entering and working the DMC. They are looking for volunteers to help work the event if you wanted to make a day out of it. They have posted a schedule for the day (http://knaves.org/DMC/schedule.html) on the website. I know the club provides food for those that are working the event.

As for trying various beers, I doubt there is much of that going on until possibly after the awards ceremony.

Im entering a IPA local comp and a military HB comp. I like comps even if some "judges" get wasted during I have had my far share of sloppy feedback. I like the feedback don't enter in hopes of winning you will only get disappointed simply enter for the feedback from people you don't know

COLObrewer said:

So are you saying the mini-BOS is a second judging to determine 1st, 2nd and 3rd but they dont actually score the second round? I don't understand otherwise how a lower score could be first. I did get third place in the Belgian Specialty category with a 34. I haven't got any scoresheets back so kinda blind, maybe that will shed more light. Thanx, sorry again for the hijack, I guess I should take this private.

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Since the beers were just scored, a second scoring is not necessary. The scores are used to determine which beers were the top in a set of judge's flight. From there, the scores do not matter - they are all great beers at that point. (Plus, if you have judges that tend towards higher (or lower) scores, this practice eliminates that skew.) The beers in the mini-BOS are judged against one another to determine medals.

If you get a chance, find a local competition and check it out. Volunteering as a steward is a great way to learn!

Back with the thread, the DMC is one of the best comps to enter your beers. The UKG tend to pull very experienced judges (and a lot of them) for this comp, so you'll have a much better chance at excellent feedback.

Tonight im drinking split batch of Belgian Dark Strong to evaluate what i should send for competition. I patiently waited 2 months but it seems its still not fully carbonated, anyway at this point i much prefer batch fermented with 3787 over 1214, two bottles got me drunk (16oz at 9.5%) so i will have to repeat evaluation later on , and im totally surprised by tasting prunes in this beer, where does it come from??

I feel the op's excitement. I was really excited about the only one I entered.I was happy with the score I received,although I believe had different people tried it I would have different scores/interpretations. I got two scoresheets back. Any way, I knew my beers were kinda overcarbed. Well one guy wrote "medium carb" while the other stated it as high carb. And one of the judges didnt like my "hop choices" or more or less doesnt like those particular hops I had used.
I guess my point is maybe it can be all over the place and I dont think its probably an easy task,trying so many beers in one sitting.Trying other beers will distort your taste sometimes anyway. A good beer is still a good beer though I guess.

Polboy said:

Tonight im drinking split batch of Belgian Dark Strong to evaluate what i should send for competition. I patiently waited 2 months but it seems its still not fully carbonated, anyway at this point i much prefer batch fermented with 3787 over 1214, two bottles got me drunk (16oz at 9.5%) so i will have to repeat evaluation later on , and im totally surprised by tasting prunes in this beer, where does it come from??

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Usually the prune is from more than enough of Special B.

jonmohno said:

Usually the prune is from more than enough of Special B.

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Thanks, i used specB before but never noticed prunes like that, raisins yes but i dont remember prunes, i checked recipe and it was 1lb of Special B (2.9% of grist) for 11gal batch, maybe i will try less next time.

Polboy,

Just a reminder that registration for the DMC opened at 9:00 this morning. As of this post they have received 195 entires.

From what I have heard, the actual judging is pretty boring for a spectator, but if you (and the wife) would like to come out for the awards ceremony and raffle I have heard that is a good time. They are also looking for more volunteers as well.

It us my understanding that children are not allowed, but you would need to check with the organizers for sure.

Good Luck!

Kurt

Thanks for the reminder but I was one of the first submitting entries this morning , after i was done with my 5 beers (just required info, i will add details tonight) there was 20 entries submitted already

I judged at this comp last year and plan to again this year. Best of luck!

Sure I'm biased, but it's one of the best run comps I've been a part of.

Glad to hear you remembered. I was one of the first, if not the first person to register this morning as well. I was on the site to update my info about stewarding, just as the entry window opened. Only sending in 2 beers as the other few that I have on tap did not turn out the way I had hoped. They are good drinking beers, but will probably not do well at a competition for various reasons.

COLObrewer said:

AmandaK, what is mini-BOS

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This might help too.

KurtB said:

Glad to hear you remembered. I was one of the first, if not the first person to register this morning as well. I was on the site to update my info about stewarding, just as the entry window opened. Only sending in 2 beers as the other few that I have on tap did not turn out the way I had hoped. They are good drinking beers, but will probably not do well at a competition for various reasons.

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Im submitting 5 but im very happy only with 2 and not so much with the other 2, one is 21a category and i dont know what to think about it as its hard to compare. Anyway i wasnt sure if i should submit 2 beers im not crazy about but decided to go for it as i want to get notes that may help me to improve my process, but do you guys think i shouldnt do that? (as taking someone spot by submitting my subpar beers?, ok maybe not subpar but with space for improvement

Polboy said:

Im submitting 5 but im very happy only with 2 and not so much with the other 2, one is 21a category and i dont know what to think about it as its hard to compare. Anyway i wasnt sure if i should submit 2 beers im not crazy about but decided to go for it as i want to get notes that may help me to improve my process, but do you guys think i shouldnt do that? (as taking someone spot by submitting my subpar beers?, ok maybe not subpar but with space for improvement

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I would go ahead and submit them for feedback. Don't worry about taking somebody's spot.

The UKG is the club I belong to and they have a number of very good BJCP judges that have already given me all the feedback I needed on a couple of my beers to know what I need to do to improve them, but before they tried them i had already submitted them to the midwinter comp in Milwaukee for feedback.

I figure I am paying for the feedback so taking somebody's spot never really crossed my mind.

Heh i just finished brewing pale ale with home grown hops, logged in to the DMC website and there are scores already (this is fantastically organized competition btw). I sent 5 beers and i got
25
27
28
38
42
Im very happy with the results but RIS that scored 25 was my favorite, then saison that scored 38 was my 2nd, BD with 42 points was my 3rd (2011 batch was better than this one) ect
Anyway im psyched.
After giving it some thoughts i think i know why my RIS scored 25 points, it is out of style regarding FG and its very balance, basically 10.5%abv but easy to drink, im impatiently awaiting judging notes

Me again, still waiting for the notes but i was trying to educate myself little more about the competitions and from what i understood is if beer takes 1st place in the category then it advances to BOS judging, does it mean there will be two score sheets for that beer (one from category flight 2nd from BOS?), also is there a way to find out how the beer did in bos judging?, i know i didnt place but it would be nice to know if i took 4th or last place

The overall BOS works the same was as the mini-BOS that happens within a category when there are multiple judging teams working a category. At the DMC, for the overall BOS they round up the first place finishing beer from each category (that is one reason why you send 2 bottles) along with the top ranked judges. They pour the beers, and the judges basically rank them 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. There are no score sheets, and none of the scores from the earlier rounds get carried forward. It is similar to a dog show where after the individual breeds get judged, the rest just prance around the ring for "best in show" until the judges pick out the 3 that they feel are the best example of their style compared to all the others. You will not know if your beer was the 4th best beer in the BOS, or if it was the 15th best beer.

When you get your score sheets in the mail (possibly as soon as today unless the Chicago post office looses the envelope), you should have some very good comments, and in the case of any winnnig beer(s) you may actually see two scores on the cover sheet. One will be crossed out. The way the DMC handles things, and the way many other comps have started handling things, is that the initial score from the judges is written on the cover sheet. Then, after the mini-BOS judging (if there is one), they will "assign" a score to give the top three beers a higher score than the "4th place" beer. This is indicated by crossing out the initial score, and writing a new score on the cover sheet. They do this simply because the scores for the mini-BOS may have come from two or more different judge teams initially and it would be possible that the 1st place beer after the mini-BOS ended up with a lower score than the 3rd place beer. By assigning the score, it cuts down on the number of questions that the organizers get when two friends compare scores after the fact and a beer that did not place ends up with a higher score than one that did place.