Hot Break Material vs Cold Break Material

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jfrostp

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Hey all,

Up until now I have been dumping all of the hot/cold break material from my all-grain brews into the fermenter, and I'd like to start leaving out as much hot break material as I can. I really only want to remove the hot break material, so I'm fine with all of the cold break material making it into the fermenter. But my question is, at the bottom of the kettle, what is the hot break material and what is the cold break material?

I know the stuff floating on the top of the wort is hot break, but in the coral-reef-looking cluster of material at the bottom of the kettle, which part is the hot break and which part is the cold break?

Thanks!
 
Cold break is the proteins that form and drop out of the wort during the chilling phase.. They sort of coagulate and form in that corral-reef structure that you are talking about. Cold break, is pretty much harmless, although there are some people out there who have had better and clearer beers when filtering out the cold break... I personally have no experience with filtering out one over the other... but my next brew I will be racking to one carboy and then once the break has formed, racking into another carboy, just to test the theory.
 
Thanks Bowtiebrewery.

Is any of that stuff at the bottom of the kettle hot break material as well? Or is the hot break material only the stuff floating on the top of the kettle?
 
I use a CFC so none of my cold break stays in the BK. However, I do prefilter it through a strainer as it falls into the fermenter coming out of the chiller. I doubt I leave much behind though. It's pretty fine stuff.

I've made some brilliantly clear beers using this method along with Irish Moss and a Cold Crash and patience. If I had an IC I'd probably leave most of it behind. But I don't think it hurts the beer if you let it settle in the primary/secondary instead of the Boil Kettle. You can usually siphon the beer off the top of it when transferring.
 
Thanks Bowtiebrewery.

Is any of that stuff at the bottom of the kettle hot break material as well? Or is the hot break material only the stuff floating on the top of the kettle?

Hot break is created by boiling. Cold break is created by chilling the hot wort. Both are usually left in the boil kettle when chilling in the boil kettle (IC), or transferred into fermenter when using a plate chiller or CFC (normally).

The stuff you see floating on top might be hops. I think the hot and cold break normally settles down within a few minutes.
 
Hm.. so I guess there's no way to lazily dump the whole kettle into the fermenter without pouring the hot break in as well.

Though, if cold break material in the fermenter is supposedly good for the yeast (and bad for clarity), then is there a trick for adding some of the cold break material and none of the harmful hot break material?
 
LOL! No, there is no way to magically dump it. I don't have a spigot on my BK yet, so I siphon, which actually helps.

I add hops at flameout, and stir them in, and get a nice swirling whirlpool going. I hook up my CFC. By the time I get it hooked up, the hops have been in for 5 minutes or so and the whirlpool has started to push all the hops and break material towards the center.

I siphon from the top, near the edge of the kettle. This REALLY helps keep the gunk in the kettle. I just move it down every once in a while as the level goes down. By the time it gets to the bottom, the break is usually in a nice mound at the bottom. I carefully siphon what wort I can get without getting much break material.

TBH - I am not sure if fermenting with some break material is going to hurt your beer. The objective is to MAKE break material, not necessarily leave it out of the fermenter. It will settle QUICKLY and will be left behind when you transfer. Most people would rather not have it in the fermenter, but I am not sure it is detrimental to the beer other than seeing it swirling around when the yeast are going crazy.

Not making break material means that it remains in the wort the entire time, which will lead to cloudy beer. But once it's coagulated into break material, I think you are OK.

Personally, I'd rather not have it either, but since I am using a CFC an not an IC I get some cold break. No biggie.
 
Damn. Alright, I'll start doing the whirlpool trick and siphoning.

Thanks Homercidal!
 
Hm.. so I guess there's no way to lazily dump the whole kettle into the fermenter without pouring the hot break in as well.

Actually I chill with my immersion chiller and then rack with an autosiphon into my fermenter. I leave it all behind, hop gunk and break material. What I do is when I start siphoning I gently rest the bottom of the autosiphon on one of the coils of the IC above the gunk and rack until all the clear wort is gone and I can see the bottom, then I lower the as closer to the muck and try to get as much of the remaining wort as well, leaving everything else behind.
 
Actually I chill with my immersion chiller and then rack with an autosiphon into my fermenter. I leave it all behind, hop gunk and break material. What I do is when I start siphoning I gently rest the bottom of the autosiphon on one of the coils of the IC above the gunk and rack until all the clear wort is gone and I can see the bottom, then I lower the as closer to the muck and try to get as much of the remaining wort as well, leaving everything else behind.

I once used my autosiphon to get my CFC going. Yes, I siphoned HOT wort through my CFC using my autosiphon. Once.

I love my NEW autosiphon...

(in case you missed it, the moral of the story is DO NOT siphon hot wort with your autosiphon...)
 
^^^ no doubt there... I've done that as well, but i never bought another autosiphon after that... I have a ported valve on my BK and I have a ring of SS Mesh tubing on the bottom of the kettle attatched to my pick up tube... gets everything strained out and any small particles will pass through my CFC and into the fermenter... My next brew I will be racking to one fermenter and then to another once the Coldbreak settles...
 
AFAIK there is no way to distinguish between Hot & Cold break when it's all mixed together. I usually skim the hot break off the top as the wort starts boiling and then for a few minutes into the boil. Same thing I'd do if I was making soup. Obviously I don't get all of it but it usually fills a good sized bowl with foamy gunk. My fermenter gets all of the other break material and my beer is clear after an appropriate amount of aging.
 
Has anyone here done an experiment with side-by-side comparisons of the same brew, one with and one without break material? I'm not really convinced that it's important to remove the break.

I've done a few beers with and without, all have been clear. But that's not really a definitive test as none were identical side-sides.
 
+1 to immersion chiller and an autosiphon. The end/nipple/whatever it's called on the autosiphon is usually taller than the thickness of the break layer on the bottom of my brew kettle.

I use hop bags so my layer of break material is less than an inch thick. The only downside is that since I use hop bags, there is nothing to hold the break together in a cone. Whirlpooling and letting the wort spin down over about a 30 min window does seem to allow the beer to drop very clear.

I get a small amount of break through the siphon when I first put the autosiphon in. And I get another small amount of break through the siphon as I near the end of the wort volume. So far, it has had no notable affect on the final product. My last several beers have been brilliantly clear with no fining needed after fermentation (I use whirlfloc in the kettle)
 
I thought I read somewhere that leaving some of the break material was actually benifical to fermentation. I could be wrong though.
 
there are arguments for both sides so honestly it doesnt really matter... but a lot of people have reported that after clearing cold break that their beers are much clearer.
 
From the second link, in an article written by Ron Barchet, regarding cold trub:
"It is widely believed that removing all cold trub not only has no benefit, but actually might slow fermentation and harm the finished beer, reportedly giving it an onion-like flavor."

According to these sources, cold trub differs from hot trub in its effects on the health of fermentation, as well as the taste and clarity of the finished beer. Regarding hot trub: "They look bad, they smell bad, and they taste very bad. In this case, the senses do not deceive -- these coagulated proteins and gums are bad. They are bad for the fermentation and for the finished beer."

In practical application for a home brewer, it seems that simply leaving a good amount of these materials out of your fermenter will be positive, but making sure to not completely omit their presence - as they, particularly cold trub, provide beneficial nutrients during fermentation. From Alex Fodor, at BYO: "A small amount of trub will provide much-needed fatty acids for the yeast. Using a combination of the above methods (refer to article) should remove enough trub to avoid off-flavors while still providing adequate fatty acids for a healthy fermentation."

Hope this helps.
 
I once used my autosiphon to get my CFC going. Yes, I siphoned HOT wort through my CFC using my autosiphon. Once.

I love my NEW autosiphon...

(in case you missed it, the moral of the story is DO NOT siphon hot wort with your autosiphon...)

LOL! I was reading your post above wondering what you were using to siphon hot wort thru your CFC....come to think of it...what are you using to siphon hot wort thru your CFC?? :)
 

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