Can someone help me interperet this water report?

So I have never really looked at my water make up before. I have read a lot about how much benefit can come from good ph and mineral levels. So I pulled the report and its all greek to me. Can someone take a look and tell me what Im looking at? Thanks!

http://www.cvwdwater.com/Modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=857

Here are your figures:

Chloride: 10ppm average (2-90ppm range)
Sodium: 19ppm average (4-73ppm range)
Sulfate: 19ppm average (5-52ppm range)
Magnesium: No apparent value given
Calcium: Provided as a part of CaC03 (see hardness)
Bicarbonate: Provided as a part of CaC03 (see alkalinity)

Hardness, as CaC03: 133ppm average (79-190ppm range)
Alkalinity, as CaC03: 137ppm average (100-160ppm range)


Depending on the style of beer you're brewing, there will be different recommendations for altering your water to suit that particular style of beer. Calcium is generally the most important of all minerals in brewing. A Chloride boost may be needed for non-stouts. Sulfate is important for hoppy styles. Bicarbonate for Lagers. But overall, Sodium and Magnesium are usually in lesser amounts.

A ratio of about 2:1 sulphate to chloride is about right for a bitter beer, 1:2 sulphate:chloride are recommended for mild ales, while a ratio of 1:3 may give best results for stouts or porters.

Here are the 2 most common amendments that homebrewers will buy, with pickling lime thrown in there at the end:

Gypsum / CaSO4

•4.0 grams per level teaspoon
•Minimally decreases pH and moderately increases alkalinity
•Useful for adding calcium if water is low in sulfate
•More soluble in cold water
•Add to mash to supply Calcium and Sulfate.
•Use to add crispness to the hop bitterness - I add more of it at 15 min. left in boil.

Calcium Chloride / CaCl2

•3.4 grams per level teaspoon
•Minimally decreases pH and moderately increases alkalinity
•Useful for adding calcium if the water is low in chlorides

Pickling Lime / Calcium Hydroxide can also be used to boost Calcium without the Chloride and Sulfate. It is also more soluble in cold water and basically precipitates existing bicarbonate as Calcium Carbonate (CaC03). Though there are 2 major drawbacks:

1. The amount added needs to be exactly calculated and over addition may result in an overall increase in alkalinity.
2. The precipitated calcium carbonate can form a sludge that will need periodic cleaning and racking.

Thanks bobbrews! If the ranges are so wide how to you know how to correct for them?

What style beer are you brewing?

bobbrews you're giving misleading info here. Yes, you can precipitate bicarbonate with calcium hydroxide, but if you don't rack the water off of that precipitate you're going to get a lot of unwanted alkalinity in your mash water.

Also, most homebrewers use pickling lime to raise alkalinity, not to drop it out, which as you said requires careful calculations.

One other thing....where are you getting this info that sulfates only add crispness when added in the last 15 minutes of the boil?

I did say there were 2 major drawbacks didn't I??

Also,

"may result in an overall increase in alkalinity."

You're simply misreading so don't tell me that the information is misleading.

bobbrews said:

I did say there were 2 major drawbacks didn't I??

Also,

"may result in an overall increase in alkalinity."

You're simply misreading so don't tell me that the information is misleading.

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No, but it will definitely (not just may) add alkalinity unless he lets the alkalinity drop out for ~12 hours and then racks away from the sediment that is formed!

EDIT: Also, "periodic racking" is pretty confusing if he's never heard of lime softening.

You can add the gypsum to the boil whenever you want. I add it at 15 min left with the whirlfloc and yeast nutrient. It's just a habit.

bobbrews said:

You can add the gypsum to the boil whenever you want. I add it at 15 min left with the whirlfloc and yeast nutrient. It's just a habit.

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OK, but your post didn't say that, so it's confusing/misleading.

EDIT: Apparently you edited the post.

afr0byte said:

No, but it will definitely (not just may) add alkalinity

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Yeah, again. Read.

I said if you overdo it.

You obviously have a bone to pick and just want to appear right.

Anyways...original poster...you should probably read the water knowledge section of the Bru'n Water spreadsheet (Google for Bru'n Water.)

bobbrews said:

Yeah, again. Read.

I said if you overdo it.

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You're trying to simplify lime softening in to a couple of lines. It's going to mislead someone that's never heard of it. There are entire threads on how to do it.

I provided a small snippet of information in an otherwise general passage. It's beneficial to know all your options but I wasn't going to type an entire thesis on the topic.

Also, I did not really include lime in the amendments that homebrewers typically buy. Again, re-read my post.

bobbrews said:

I provided a small snippet of information in an otherwise general passage. It's beneficial to know all your options but I wasn't going to type an entire thesis on the topic.

Also, I did not really include lime in the amendments that homebrewers typically buy. Again, re-read my post.

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Sure, but you're giving him just enough information to hang himself. Most homebrewers, especially on this forum, use pickling lime to raise the akalinity. It's the rare brewer that actually lime softens their water. Also, it's very unlikely, no matter what the style, that he'll actually need pickling lime given this water profile. He'll almost certainly need acid for his mash.

In the future, I'll try to tailor custom my responses to what afr0byte will want to read.

Nothing there is going to cause the OP to hang himself. You can use pickling lime to provide calcium and raise alkalinity. I never said that lime will soften your water.

bobbrews said:

In the future, I'll try to tailor custom my responses to what afr0byte will want to read.

Nothing there is going to cause the OP to hang himself. You can use pickling lime to provide calcium and raise alkalinity. I never said that lime will soften your water.

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Good, you should tailor them as such. If you had said that if you need to raise alkalinity you should add pickling lime then I wouldn't have said you were being misleading. However, you didn't say that. You made it sound like pickling lime is normally used to precipitate CaCO3. That's not true for most homebrewers. If he adds pickling lime he's almost certainly going to have excess alkalinity.

"had said that if you need to raise alkalinity you should add pickling lime then I wouldn't have said you were being misleading"

I actually kind of said another way to get calcium is to use lime. But that seems to have went over your head.

bobbrews said:

"had said that if you need to raise alkalinity you should add pickling lime then I wouldn't have said you were being misleading"

I actually kind of said another way to get calcium is to use lime. But that seems to have went over your head.

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Yes, I realize pickling lime adds calcium. However, a brewer wouldn't normally want or need to use pickling lime to add calcium. You made it seem like it's normal to use pickling lime for the purpose of adding calcium.

P.s. that should be "seems to have GONE over your head"

Fact:

Calcium Sulfate adds Calcium, but it also adds Sulfate.
Calcium Chloride adds Calcium, but it also adds Chloride.

Analysis:

If you don't need any additional Sulfate or Chloride, but you desperately need Calcium, what could you use??

Lime / Calcium Hydroxide perhaps? Hmmmm.

bobbrews said:

Fact:

Calcium Sulfate adds Calcium, but it also adds sulfate.
Calcium Chloride adds Calcium, but it also adds choloride.

Analysis:

If you don't need additional Sulfate or Chloride, but you desperately need Calcium, what could you use??

Lime / Calcium Hydroxide perhaps? Hmmmm.

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Yes, those facts are true, but show me an actual water profile that's lacking in calcium where you wouldn't want to add more sulfate or chloride. If it's a case where there's a lot of magnesium sulfate and a lot of magnesium chloride, but not much calcium, then you probably wouldn't want to use that water anyways, as excess magnesium can add a bad taste to your beer.

Is it an option? Yes... did I forcibly say this is what you must do? Certainly not.

And no one ever said anything about magnesium.

Show me a circumstance where I actually forced the OP to focus on lime additions. I simply offered the option.

You only need to get your calcium up to 40 or 50 ppm. Any lowering of pH could and probably should be accomplished with lactic or phosphoric acid.

bobbrews said:

Is it an option? Yes... did I forcibly say this is what you must do? Certainly not.

Show me a circumstance where I actually forced the OP to focus on lime additions. I simply offered the option.

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I never said you forced him to, but right after saying that it can be used that way you seemed to imply that it's normally used for dropping out CaCO3...but Oh, it may add alkalinity if you add the wrong amount. Obviously it's my opinion, but if you're going to offer pickling lime as an option you should state that it's going to raise his mash pH (under almost all situations).

afr0byte said:

You only need to get your calcium up to 40 or 50 ppm.

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You're pretty sure of this, huh?

I would disagree that this advice should be followed for all beers. It's true for a stout though, so I'll give you that.

BTW -In addition to adding additional calcium without other unnecessary ingredients, and boosting alkalinity (if that is your goal), lime softening can also help to reduce hardness and adjust/maintain pH.

You seem to think that there is only one use for lime, across the board, for all homebrewers, in each and every circumstance.

To the OP - re-post your water profile in the Brewing Science forum and wait for a reply from ajdelange or mbrungard. They are both knowledgable and helpful. Also search for Bru'n Water and EZWater 3.0 on the net. Good tools for learning how the different brewing salts are used and what they affect.

Well fellas looks like i need to do some more reading on water because I didnt understand a word of that. You guys have been busy little bees haha.

To answer the last question directed at me my next two planned brews are a bohemian pils and a RIS.

jmf143.....thanks. Didnt realize I posted this in the wrong place.

bobbrews said:

You're pretty sure of this, huh?

I would disagree that this advice should be followed for all beers. It's true for a stout though, so I'll give you that.

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Yes, I've heard it from multiple reputable sources (e.g. John Palmer...of How To Brew fame...or Dr. Charles Bamforth from the UC Davis brewing program). It's all that you really need for good yeast health. Yes you could add more, if you want a lot of sulfate for example. You don't need more than 40-50ppm though.

bobbrews said:

BTW -In addition to adding additional calcium without other unnecessary ingredients, and boosting alkalinity (if that is your goal), lime softening can also help to reduce hardness and adjust/maintain pH.

You seem to think that there is only one use for lime, across the board, for all homebrewers, in each and every circumstance.

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I never said that there is only one use for lime. In fact I believe I also mentioned that you could use it for lime softening. All I was saying is that normally pickling lime is used to raise alkalinity (and thus mash pH). Besides, if he does use pickling lime to soften his water, and he does it properly, then he's going to lose any of the calcium that the lime added to the water. He'll need to add extra gypsum or calcium chloride to the water if he doesn't want to end up simply increasing his alkalinity (by adding too much lime).

EDIT: The last part assumes he wants to have at least 40-50 ppm calcium instead of 20ppm.