Schwarzbier Recipe Help

Ok not sure on how to attain the predominant flavor of this style, I can taste roastyness, a little smoke and some molasses but not sure what else to add or in what proportions.

6# Dry Light Extract
.5# Black Patent
.5#Rye Malt
.5# Molasses

1.25oz Fuggle(60)
.5oz EKG (22)
.5oz EKG (4)

Wyeast 1007

Obviously this should be a lager but my basement hangs between 67-71 so an ale it is

No Black Patent, Rye or Molasses. Schwartzbier needs Carafa III, which is a de-husked malt.

For specialty grains try:

1/2 lb C90L - sweetness
1.25 lb Munich - body
1/4 lb Carafa III - roasty flavors

These should be mini-mashed.

Why dehusked, just a safety on tannins?

Dehusked roasted grains do not have very much roastiness. You're looking for a lot of color but really only a very subtle roastiness. Using the Black Patent (or roasted barley, or other husked dark-roast malt) will give too much of that character.

Glibbidy's got a schwatzbier recipe in the database I've been wanting to try; take a look at that for some ideas. It's such a nice style, a lot of subtle little flavors (many of which I believe are yeast-derived; I've gotten a very small fruity note from some commercial examples that I think may be the yeast).

EDIT: Here's his recipe. Trust me - Glib knows what he's doing, he's one of the best brewers I've met!

Yeah thats what I noticed in a few examples that I have tried. I very subtle fruit, roasty, smokey, but clean and crisp

Mmmm... I need some Carafe. I might need to stop at the packie and pick up a bottle.

Wholly , the wife and I are going to be in Buffalo next weekend; you want to grab a beer?

Any clean ale yeast will do a good job on a Schwartzbier. I did a comparison of Nottingham and a lager yeast in a Schwartzbier. The main difference: the ale was on tap before the lager finished fermenting.

Cool thanks guys. I know very little about this style as it very hard to find commercial examples. Saranac makes one but they really only put it out seasonally here.

the_bird. Yes Beers, PM me

Make sure you get dehusked Carafa (it will be marked as such, whereas grain simply marked, "Carafa," will NOT be dehusked). I accidentally bought the wrong stuff once, and I can assure you that it's PLENTY roasty. Fortunately, mine went into a stout, so the mistake wasn't very noticeable.

Sam Adams Black Lager is a decent example of the style, as is Shiner Black.

Now obviously the carafaI, II, III are different. Are they all dehusked? the differences? benefits to using one over the other, other then SRM's that will be added

Carafa I, II, and III are the same grain roasted to differing levels. All can be sold intact or dehusked, so look for the dehusked variety (sometimes marked "Carafa Special").

Typical SRM:
Carafa I - 320
Carafa II - 415
Carafa III - 525

Think of it like chocolate malt, and actually in terms of chocolate. Carafa I is light chocolate, Carafa II is semi-sweet, and Carafa III is dark chocolate. The dehusked varieties add a mild, smooth roastiness while imparting a lot of color, while the intact ones can be treated much like chocolate malt.

Thanks Yuri, a wealth of information as always. So it sounds like III (dehusked) is the best bet. I am looking to make a nice crisp, clean, maybe slightly fruity, slightly roasty version so I want to keep the recipe as a whole very light, somewhere around 1.011 FG at 4.5-5%abv

Yuri has it right with the color ratings

Carafa Special is the dehusked kind. Carafa Special II seems to be the easiest for me to find. Morebeer and Northern Brewer carry it. If you can only find the II, use more to get the same color you would for III.

Austin Homebrew sells Carafa III (dehusked).

As far as recipes go, get a copy of Brewing Classic Styles by John Palmer and Jamil Zainasheff. The best recipe book out there.

Here's the two Schwartzbier recipes from the book, an American version and a Classic, almost no roasty version. Both are based on 6 gallons at 70% efficiency. I doing the first recipe on Sunday.

Doing It In The Dark
4.6 lbs German Pilsner
6.1 lbs German Munich
6.0 oz Crystal 40
6.0 oz Chocolate Malt
3.5 oz Black Roasted Barley
3.5 oz Carafa Special II

Hallertau 4.0% Pellets
1.65 oz 60 min
0.5 oz 20 min
0.5 oz 0 min

Mash at 154 for 60 minutes
90 min boil
White Labs WLP830 German Lager yeast


German Schwartzbier
9 lbs German Pilsner
1 lb German Munich
11.0 oz Carafa Special II

Hallertau 4.0% Pellets
1.65 oz 60 min
0.5 oz 20 min
0.5 oz 0 min

Mash 151 for 60 minutes
90 minute boil
White Labs WLP830 German Lager yeast

that second recipe looks very good. Thanks guys. This is next Fridays brew

When I listened to Jamil's show about the Schwarzbier he said he Ground the Carafa into a powder and sprinkled onto the mash. That is what I did and I copied everything in his recipe.