NEED HELP! Brewing Now! German Pils

Hey,
I'm brewing a german pils, all 95% pilsner malt, 5% carafoam.

I'm in the middle of recirculation and the wort is running very cloudy! I've been doing it for about 20 mins and its still very cloudy. Is this possible for all pilsner malt? mashed at 148-147 for 75 mins. There was no grain left in the recirculation samples just cloudy wort that wouldn't seem like it would clear up no matter how long i recirculated.

Is this normal? I took an OG on my refractometer and it was 1.072. The wort tasted very sweet and it had those rainbow colored bubbles on the top which i heard somewhere that that is also a sign of conversion. Am i just paranoid or is something not right? Thanks!

RDWHAHB!

Recirculating gets rid of grain bits and big particles. It also helps to set your grain bed for lautering.

Cold crashing, gelatin etc... will help to clear your beer at the appropriate time after fermentation and lagering.

If you feel ambitious, try a protein rest or decoction mash for an all pilsner malt bill.

If you're worried about conversion do an iodine test!

If you're still worried, mash for a while longer.

Remember to boil for 90mins with an all Pils bill and most of all RDWHAHB!

All of my pilsner mashes have been cloudy, nothing a month of lagering doesn't clear up. I've heard it's due to the higher level of protein that pils malt has in it. I'm about to put a helles in the keg for lagering, it's still cloudy, but I know it'll be clear after it lagers.

You're right. Just worried that something's wrong lol. This is my first lager and I already put a lot of time and money into getting all I need that I don't want it to go wrong. Thanks for the help!

Quick question: would unconverted sugars in the mash still give me the same OG as if they were all converted? For example if I ran wort from my mash tun after just adding the water and no conversion has taken place will that still give me the same OG after a 60 min sac rest? Thanks!

I'm not 100% sure, but I think unconverted starches would throw off a gravity reading. That being said - it converted. I'm sure it did. If you hit your temperatures close, and held it for a full 60 minutes, it converted. In reality it probably converted in less than 30 minutes. Pils malt is quick in my experience.

These photos show what I've experienced. The pitcher is the wort coming out of the mash, just before boiling. The sample is out of the fermenter before lagering. As you can see they're both cloudy as crap. I don't have a picture of the final (and I should, I'll have to add later). It's as clear as it can be.

Awesome, thanks for the pics because that is exactly what mine looked like. I would have added a pic but didn't have enough time!

Make a hot scotchy and cool/pitch that sucker!

The cold break is amazing on these too. If you take a small sample and put it in the freezer to cool quickly, it'll fall out quickly and you'll be amazed at the amount of break material.

PupThePup said:

Make a hot scotchy and cool/pitch that sucker!

Click to expand...

HAHA! I was considering having a hot scotchy and raising my glass for all the others that took off of work today to brew!

Man my brew day almost got as stressful as work!

Another question...use whirlfloc on a German pils? Worth it even though gonna lager?

Won't hurt, but I never have. Turns out I never needed it, they always clear up.

German pils to me = malt, hops, water, yeast. I sort of cheat by adding some calcium chloride to my water though.

I cheated a bit too because I started with distilled and and almost exactly replicated a water profile I found from braukaiser. i added gypsum, cacl2, and mgSO4. Hopefully it comes out pretty good! Also added 1.5ml of lactic acid. EZ water calc put me right at 5.50 pH with those additions and they were almost identical to what i found braukaiser said worked well for a german pils

Sounds like you'll end up pretty good. I use 5 gallons distilled with the remainder made up from my tap, and some acid malt and calcium chloride (I follow AJ's water primer on here), turns out great. Keep the temps low on the fermentation and you'll get a great pils. It's a shame you have to wait longer on them, but I think they're worth it.

Holy hell was there a lot of cold break. Had to leave a bunch of sweet sweet wort in the pot

Thought I'd show the final product. This is the same beer from post #6.

Awesome! Thanks for the pics, it really helped me out!

Man thats one tasty looking clear beer! Nice job!

Update: So my German Pils has been in the fridge at 48-50 degrees for 5 days now and I see that things are starting to slow down so I took a gravity reading because I've been reading that at about 1.020 you should do a diacetyl rest for a few days. I've been reading a ton of forums on diacetyl rests and people have many different opinions on the matter but from what I've gathered it wouldn't hurt to do one.

Like I said, I just took a gravity reading and it is 1.024. My question is, when I take it out of the fridge for a d-rest tomorrow, how long do I keep it at 60-65 degrees? Two, three days? How do I know it is done at that point? Would it hurt to keep out of the fridge for 7 days just to make sure it is done? I pitched at 44-45 degrees so I'm not sure yet if I need a d-rest but I'd rather be safe then sorry. Listening to Jamil, it didn't sound like he does a d-rest when he pitches at 44 degrees, but like I said, I'd rather be on the safe side. Any thoughts or suggestions on what I should do? I still have my sample I took for the gravity reading so I'll heat half the sample up to 140 and smell it for diacetyl. As of 5 minutes ago, the sample I took did not smell of any popcorn butter.

Sorry for all the questions, this is my first lager and of course I want to get it right!

My experience tells me that the flavor profile from fermentation has been set already since it's almost done, so it won't hurt to keep it out for 7 days if that works for you. Leave it until it's finished, take a gravity reading when you think it's done. Raising the temp seems to help it get those last couple of points too. I've left lagers out for a week or more for a d-rest with no ill effects (probably not the best practice, but they've turned out fine). If you pitched adequate yeast and you pitched it at or below fermentation temps, it's VERY unlikely you have any diacetly. Raise the temp a bit for a few days (or more, whatever works for you), verify it's done, transfer then drop it to lager temps for 4+ weeks, it'll be great.

The wyeast site says this yeast may need a thorough diacetyl rest. I pitched at 44 degrees then let rise to fermentation temp at 48-50 in my fridge. After doing a lot of reading on diacetyl rests I gathered that a rest would not hurt the beer as long as it is at the correct gravity which is about 1.020. Last night I checked the gravity and it was 1.024-22, so I left it in the fridge for another 12 hours and then took it out this morning. My question is, did I take the beer out fridge too soon since it was only in there for about 5.5 days? How long can I keep it at room temperature? Next time should I keep it in the fridge for 2-3 weeks? If there was a lot of diacetly in my beer would a long primary (3-4 weeks) clean it up without doing a diacetyl rest? Thanks for the help!

A quick update: I have had this beer in my kegerator at 34 degrees for 4.5 weeks and it still pours very hazy. Any idea why lagering hasn't cleared this beer up yet?

Also, taste and aroma is fairly grainy. Almost as if I have a handful of pilsner malt and I am chewing on some. Any thoughts or suggestions?

At 4 weeks, I've found it isn't enough for a helles to clear, it usually takes 6, so wait a bit longer.

As far as the graininess, pils malt is supposed to be a little grainy, so it sounds OK to me. Is it truly grainy or is it more corn-like, like DMS?

Ok thanks for the heads up, ill leave it alone for a few more weeks. It's tempting but I'll have to wait.

I'm pretty sure it is grainy smell and flavor. I had a very vigorous boil for 90 mins. I had my buddy who's a BJCP judge taste it and he said its still young and tasted yeasty. So I'm guessing the slight haze is the yeast still in suspension. I used wlp 830 which I've heard isn't the most flocculant yeast.

I know there are many different types of haze but will lagering clear up all haze? And if it's not crystal clear just give it more time?

My lagers always have if I remember correctly. I have had some ales that never clear in the keg (Marris Otter for some reason I think). Even after several months, cloudy. Gelatin has worked great in those cases. I've used it 2-3 times on some stubborn beers. Half a pack of Knox gelatin, dissolved and heated (not boiled). Take the cold carbonated keg off the gas, release the pressure, open the lid, dump the hot gelatin in and seal it back up quickly, and purge a couple of times and replace the gas. 24-48 hours later it's a dramatic difference.
I'd leave yours a little longer though and see if it clears on its own.