My FULL-ON electric build thread

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TheFlyingBeer

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Here we go, a place for me to ramble about my E-Herms build!

For starters, I am planning this as a 4 vessel electrically powered HERMS system. The HERMS HEX will have it's own smaller pot separate from the three sankes. Initially there won't be many advantages to having the separate tank but I hope one day it might make it easier for me to do step mashes, or provide greater control to the overall process. The system will require a fair amount of manual input/control initially with the end goal to make it as automated as possible. I love brewing as a hobby not only because of the end products :mug: but also because I get to tinker with all of this fun stuff.

Much of my inspiration/knowledge has been pulled from this very board... thanks!

Below is a top level diagram of my system/plumbing:

HERMSv0.8.jpg


And some of the 3D models I have been developing while determining how everything will fit together:

Brewery1.JPG


BreweryModel-Top.JPG%20


Brewery3-ISO.JPG


Nearly all of the fittings I am using are tri-clamps, not because they are in any way necessary for home brewing but because I think I am in love with them - also - I think stainless is my favorite color.

As far as the control system (my main push right now) I plan to use a PC running LabVIEW or custom SW to perform all of the top level control. I have a 15" touchscreen LCD that will be used as the operator interface. The PC will communicate with a microcontroller board I am building to provide all of the low-level system interfaces such as switch inputs, SSR PWM, sensor reading, etc.

The two big enclosures in the pictures above split the duty of powering/controlling the system. The one with the touchscreen I have dubbed the Human-Machine Interface (HMI) and the one under the table is the Power Control Unit (PCU). The PCU is run from a standalone 50A GFCI protected outlet while the HMI is on a 15A GFCI circuit.

HMI:
PC, touchscreen, DC power supply (ATX), switches/buttons, microcontroller, sensor inputs, valve control, and others.

HMI1.JPG


PCU:
240V 50A contactor, circuitbreakers, power relays, SSRs, heating element receptacles, possibly pump control modules.

PCU1.JPG


I have many of the parts needed to get this build underway, with many more on their way. In the meantime I have been working on building automated ball valves and triclamp heating element fittings, and a HLT ultrasonic level monitor. This weekend I should hopefully have all the parts needed to build the first phase of the PCU and brew a couple extracts with electricity.

/ramble
 
I'd like to hear more about ultrasonic level monitoring. That sounds like something I could take full advantage of. I have a very large system and I don't have sight tubes. Instead I use a tape measure. Very primitive but effective.

I'm all ears
 
I'd like to hear more about ultrasonic level monitoring.

Works similar to a depth finder for a boat, except in air rather than water. I was fortunate enough to grab a complete unit for next to nothing. They make all different kinds for process control but are generally very expensive. I will need to make a lookup conversion table that relates sensor voltage to gallons of water.
 
Wow!

LabVIEW is something I have tiny amount of exposure to. That should work nicely with some of the features you are planning. I can envision a GUI with a HLT sightglass on your touch screen! Schweet!
 
Thought I would post a little brewery pr0n before I called it a night:

Brewery-Spread1.jpg


More stuff is on the way... Let's just say, eBay and the interwebs have been both my friend and my credit card's enemy.
 
TFB,
Major Prost to you! I look forward to watching this build AND your detailed information!
Sparky
 
i'm interested to watch your build; thanks for sharing. I've begun prototyping my control software using Labview Statecharts and plan to use a touchscreen eventually -- it'll be a mouse in the beginning. I've always got a laptop with me, but may buy a dedicated SBC so that it is self contained and still allows me to have BeerSmith full screen. What r u planning for all the switches if your HMI is labview? Are the manual/safety overrides? The screen looks nice; where did you source it and the valves from.
 
Should be epic. Wish I had the intelligence to incorporate a touch screen.
 
What r u planning for all the switches if your HMI is labview? Are the manual/safety overrides? The screen looks nice; where did you source it and the valves from.

The top row of switches will control the state of the three elements and both pumps (manual-off-auto), a safe start interlock is incorporated so that the main 50A service can't be started unless all are in the off position. If an issue occurs the big "oh ****" red stop button will kill the coil in the contactor but the HMI will still be functional so any progress/current states won't be lost in the SW control.

The bottom row of switches are actually potentiometers. I am going to try to rig them up to standard 22mm selectors. The pots will be used in manual mode to control element duty cycle and pump speed. Mainly they are incorporated so I can brew before automation aspects are incorporated. SW is going to take a lot of work and I have a lot of learning to do.

The valves are from Taiwan, the screen is from eBay. I am pretty sure the screen came out of a digital photo printing kiosk, it has a nice bezel for mounting to a panel and the screen is protected by a sheet of plastic. Connects to the PC using USB.

Should be epic. Wish I had the intelligence to incorporate a touch screen.
Time will tell if I do...
 
Man....you guys are going way more high tech than I ever dreamed of.....rock on.
 
First great pictures and design! I like the clean look and simplicity.

Job well done!

What size heating element is HE2?

Are you going to use HE2 to preheat the HERMS or are you bring in water from the HLT?

I went with a seperate heat exchanger because I figured it was easier to control a smaller volume of water for doing steps and mash outs, I have found this to be true with all my tests this past winter. Just now doing tests with electric heat exchanger.
My element is to small (1000watt) so I have to use gas or the HLT to provide preheated water at the correct temperature. Have not decided a route yet with that issue.

After I threaded in an element last night I figured out why triclamps are the way to go, especially in the boil pot if one has a screen, triclamp makes it so much easier to remove the element for cleaning and if equiped removing the screen. It is just a simple matter of function when deciding to use triclamps for the elements.
 
wl7coe said:
What size heating element is HE2?
Thanks. The HEX element is currently spec'd to be 2500W. Between that the HLT and BK elements I will be pushing the limits of my 50a service. The controller will handle power management eventually if all are commanded on at once.
 
I'd be interested in seeing how the ultra sonic transducer works out. In my experience they can be a little sensitive to steam vapors.
 
CodeRage said:
I'd be interested in seeing how the ultra sonic transducer works out. In my experience they can be a little sensitive to steam vapors.

I have only tested it with cold tap water and it performed great. Initially it will be used to control the solenoid valve that fills the hlt, eventually I will use it to monitor how much water has been emptied. After heating the hlt things may get interesting. The HEX tank is binary, will have a simple float switch.
 
Definitely will have to watch this build develop. I want to do something similar in the next year or so, but need to move first. Can't wait to see how your's turns out.
 
Thanks. The HEX element is currently spec'd to be 2500W. Between that the HLT and BK elements I will be pushing the limits of my 50a service. The controller will handle power management eventually if all are commanded on at once.

Because of my limits i went with a different circuit for the heat exchanger, though it is 110v 2o amps so I am just using a 1000 watt element, that is why i am looking at using preheated water from the HLT or using propane to get to the mash temp than the HE element to maintain.

I am actually testing using the HLT tonight, I have a 15 gallon HLT so draining off 2 and a half gallons for the heat exchanger will not be an issue. Just worried asking a 4500 watt element to heat up another 3 or 4 gallons to 165 may take to long. I have already tested using propane to hat the heat exchanger to 159 than switching to the bucket heater, that worked great. With my equipment if maintain the heat exchanger between 159 and 162 and use the pump valves to regulate the mash temperatures everything works fine.

Thank you for the reply
 
FB -

Great work and design. Your CAD skills are way better than any architects that give us the plans to build from. Nice brazing as well.

I'm north east of Baltimore. When you get this thing further along, I'd love to see it in person.

Bill
 
I think of CAD as playing with Legos for grown-ups, except that I also wouldn't mind just playing with Legos.

A lot of progress was made tonight on the PCU. All of the receptacles and indicators are mounted. SSRs and heatsink are firmly in place on top. And all of the internal components I have are mounted to the DIN rails.
The power and control signal entrances are not here yet, neither are my relays or terminal blocks. Waiting on a few more parts, hopefully arriving tomorrow or the next day. Then the wiring begins!

Here is the outside:
PCU-Front1.jpg


Inside:
PCU-Inside1.jpg


And a closeup of the SSR heatsink mounting:
PCU-SSR1.jpg


I still have room to grow with space for 3 more SSRs. That heatsink is a monster and makes the entire box weight a ton. Once I'm sure that I don't need to drill into this box anymore I'm going to shoot it with a black coat of paint.
 
I don't even understand what is happening around this forum anymore. I understand the function of the heat sink..... I at least got that one.
 
I don't even understand what is happening around this forum anymore.

The new requirements for the electrical section are:
(1) must have a BSEE degree
(2) advanced PhD or Master in EE or Differential Equations preferred
(3) Electrical contracting license in jurisdiction (multi-States preferred)
(4) Master Electrician and be able to recite line-by-line of the 2011 NEC Handbook and draw all layouts.
(5) AutoCad 3D advanced skillls
(6) Worked in a machine shop for 50 years or 35 years minimum
(7) Love brewing beer
:D
 
I don't even understand what is happening around this forum anymore. I understand the function of the heat sink..... I at least got that one.

The new requirements for the electrical section are:
(1) must have a BSEE degree
(2) advanced PhD or Master in EE or Differential Equations preferred
(3) Electrical contracting license in jurisdiction (multi-States preferred)
(4) Master Electrician and be able to recite line-by-line of the 2011 NEC Handbook and draw all layouts.
(5) AutoCad 3D advanced skillls
(6) Worked in a machine shop for 50 years or 35 years minimum
(7) Love brewing beer
:D

You guys are cracking me up. I meet requirement #1 and 7... can I still post?

I think requirement #8 should be disposable income or a love of being in dept due to a hobby.
And #9 should be a SWMBO who puts up with all this crap. (A Wit or Hefe every 3-4 batches and she puts up with me :))
 
You guys are cracking me up. I meet requirement #1 and 7... can I still post?

I think requirement #8 should be disposable income or a love of being in dept due to a hobby.
And #9 should be a SWMBO who puts up with all this crap. (A Wit or Hefe every 3-4 batches and she puts up with me :))

Yup....#9 is a must.

Oh yeah, you need to be a photographer and also be able to TIG weld.:p
 
Wow, you weren't kidding about "FULL-OUT"; really looking forward to following along! I will be interested to hear your thought on the level sensors. I have a few guided wave level probes available and am thinking about trying to incorporate one into a build. Your method may prove to be far easier. Keep up the great work!
 
Wow, you weren't kidding about "FULL-OUT"; really looking forward to following along! I will be interested to hear your thought on the level sensors. I have a few guided wave level probes available and am thinking about trying to incorporate one into a build. Your method may prove to be far easier. Keep up the great work!

Congrats on the first post, welcome to HBT! Do you work in the process industry? Not many people have a few guided wave probes just laying around :p Are they hard to interface with?
 
Haha, worthy thread for a first post! I work in the bio-pharma business, being a mechanic/instrument tech sure has it's advantages when it comes to "leftovers" for projects such as ridiculously overkill (but totally necessary!) brew rigs.

We use Magnetrol probes pretty much exclusively. Very easy to interface, extremely reliable, and the newest versions seem to penetrate foam quite accurately. As cool as they are, I love your approach with the backup sensor. That is the kind of ingenuity that fuels these homebuilt breweries.
 
Extract brew in progress with my new eHLT and power control unit!! Will post some pictures/results tomorrow. So far so good.
 
I just finished wiring my control panel up and I've already got a complex after looking at yours. Too nice! I'll post a thread for mine later this week, but damn - nice job!
 
TFB, your work is incredible!

Also love the pics from your brazing thread. So, how much would you charge to hook a local brotha up with some fine fittings on a keggle? ;)
 
I love your approach with the backup sensor. That is the kind of ingenuity that fuels these homebuilt breweries.

That backup sensor may be shelved for a while if the standalone tank level probe works as well as I hope it does.

TFB, your work is incredible!

Also love the pics from your brazing thread. So, how much would you charge to hook a local brotha up with some fine fittings on a keggle? ;)

Thanks, I wouldn't mind helping out with some fittings provided I had the time... Time is an extremely precious resource right now. Maybe more towards summer.

As promised, here are the pictures from my first electric brew. Brewed the Norther Brewer Pro Series Town Hall Hope and King Scotch Ale, one of my personal Minneapolis favorites. Tonight I brew the Surly Furious copy, my personal favorite :rockin:

For starters, I drilled a hole in the bottom of my HLT and added on a 3/4" triclamp ferrule for the drain.

HLT_Drain_Ferrule.jpg


Then I finished up the heating element enclosure wiring with a nice strain relief.

FirstElectricBrew-Equipment3.jpg


Next I setup my microcontroller circuit to adjust the heating element power. This is very ugly right now but it performed perfectly. With the potentiometer I am able to set the duty cycle of the element between 0-100%. All of this equipment will eventually make its way into the HMI on a dedicated circuit board. The code was hacked together over the last couple nights... I am new to this processor but there were some great examples that kick started my development.

FirstElectricBrew-Equipment2Labeled2.jpg


Here is how the inside of the PCU turned out with just one of the outputs wired up. Everything worked great, first electric brew was a complete success!

PCU-Inside2.jpg
 
well that looks like a lot of fun.. and quite expensive.... i wish i could put that into my home brewery though i think the wife would kill me.
 
Looks good, but where's the picture of that "Sweet Wort" being boiled? ;)

I'll be sure to take a picture later tonight on brew #2. The 4500W element for the HLT was pretty speedy... not looking to go back to propane anytime soon.

well that looks like a lot of fun.. and quite expensive.... i wish i could put that into my home brewery though i think the wife would kill me.

Shhh... not so loud, SWMBO might hear you.
 
well... i use a much cheaper... say ghetto way to do this... i use two heating elements for my boil kettle (240 volts) with a dimmer switch for lights on each leg of 120. works ok for temp control for mashing. Though I just use straight connections for my boil kettle due to the fact that these dimmer switches cant really handle the wattage for that.
 
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