Fermentation Question

I am trying lagering for the first time and think that i may have a problem. before i start, here is what has been done to date

Saranac Black Forest Clone
extract w/ specialty grains
5 gallon
OG = 1.044
Munich Lager Yeast in the Wyeast Smack Pack
Pitch Temperature 75 degrees.

I let the yeast warm up for about 15 hours prior to pitching, and the bag did not swell at all. I looked at the package and it said that it was from march 2008 (best in six months).

I pitched the yeast anyways, waited twenty minutes and then swirled the carboy and stuck it in the fridge. I cooled it down to 55 degrees over teh next two days. This whole time i have not seen one bubble in the airlock. I checked the Gravity with my hydrometer, and did not detect a significant change (1.042).

However, there is about 1-inch of what looks like lees on the bottom of the carboy. I have never had that much. see here




My local homebrew shop suggested i take it out of the fridge and let it warm up to room temperature to let the yeast get going. I did so, yesterday, but have not seen any change.

Maybe i am jumping the gun, but i would hate to lose 50 dollars in supplies if the problem was that i had old yeast.

What do you guys think

1) Cold beer can hold more CO2, so it can stay dissolved in solution longer before bubbling out.
2) Lagers take longer to begin fermenting because of the low temps and will take longer to complete
3) Lager yeast are bottom fermenters (versus ale yeast which ferment from the top) which is why you have a thicker layer on the bottom.

Unless a more experienced lagerer comes along and says otherwise, don't worry about it.

Lagers really require starters for a proper yeast pitch rate. Not using a starter will result in a longer lag time and producing diacetyl and other off-flavor compounds. If your lager has gone 2-3 days without any signs of fermentation, you might be justified in beginning to worry. Also, lagers are better pitched cold (less than 55°F). Pitching them warm results in fruity ester production that can't all be gotten rid of in lagering. Lager fermentations don't look that much different from ale fermentations except they are less "sloppy" looking and form a neater, more firm krausen. You can pitch lager yeasts at 45°F, let them warm up to 50°F and they'll take off fine. I'd say get that thing back in the cool temps. If it won't start off at 55°F, then somethings wrong. Maybe pick up a dry lager yeast (2 packs) and pitch it.

The brewery store said to let it get going at about 70 degrees and then gradually cool it down to lagering temperatures. Then do a diacetyl rest to clean up the beer right before racking to secondary. Do you disagree with this logic?

I will do a yeast starter in the future. I just read about that night. seems easier than i thought it was.

sjlammer said:

The brewery store said to let it get going at about 70 degrees and then gradually cool it down to lagering temperatures. Then do a diacetyl rest to clean up the beer right before racking to secondary. Do you disagree with this logic?

I will do a yeast starter in the future. I just read about that night. seems easier than i thought it was.

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Well, many brewstores suggest doing it that way- because it helps to have the lager "take off" as to not worry newer brewers. It's an ok way, but not the best way to ferment a lager. I mean, I make ales, too. I pitch them at 65 degrees, not 85 degrees and then let them cool off. I feel the same way about lagers- why pitch at 70 and then cool down to 50? You'll have off-flavors and maybe even a stuck fermentation. If you cool it too slowly, most of the fermentation will be over before you even get to 50 degrees, but if you cool it too quickly, fermentation will probably stall.

Anyway, to fix this batch I'd either get some new yeast and make a starter now and pitch ASAP (like tomorrow) at the appropriate temperature, or get some dry lager yeast and pitch that ASAP.

Lagers aren't difficult, but they require a little more effort and more temperature control. Yeast are living organisms, and need a little pampering to keep them happy.

Most importantly, what do you think that light brown layer is? If its yeast, how could there be so much yeast, with so little fermentation? It just doesn't make sense?

Well the fermentation took off by the time i got home. I guess i am just impatient. I am still trying to cool the keg down to lagering temps (slowly), so i guess that means i will need to do a diacetyl rest to clean up the ale flavors. Do you guys recommend i rack then rest or rest then rack?


Thanks again for all your help. next time i will make a yeast starter.

sjlammer said:

Well the fermentation took off by the time i got home. I guess i am just impatient. I am still trying to cool the keg down to lagering temps (slowly), so i guess that means i will need to do a diacetyl rest to clean up the ale flavors. Do you guys recommend i rack then rest or rest then rack?


Thanks again for all your help. next time i will make a yeast starter.

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Always do the diacetyl rest on the yeast cake, as it is the yeast that clean up the diacetyl.

It sounds like the bulk of fermentation will be finished before you ever get to the desired fermentation temperature, though. You may notice that this lager will be fruitier and less "clean" than you were expecting.