input on CIP nozzle options

I'm putting together a parts list for a CIP system. I need a small diameter nozzle, as I'll be using it to clean carboys. I'm curious whether anyone is aware of any "gotchas" with any of these nozzles - anything I'm not considering?

GW Kent twk-rotating nozzle

This is my preferred choice so far. Doesn't seem as flashy as the others, but it is the smallest in diameter, works with the lowest pressure, and has the highest spray diameter. (I don't need to clean anything larger than a keggle, so the spray diameter isn't important by itself, except that I assume if it sprays farther, it will hit the tank walls harder.)

But it seems too good to be true - what am I missing?

McMaster 71445T84

Several people seem to use this nozzle. It seems fine, but I'm concerned about the nozzle width being too wide for one of my narrow-mouthed carboys.

GW Kent whirling nozzle

This nozzle seems pretty similar to the mcmaster nozzle above. But (as with the mcmaster version) I'm curious why I'd buy a more expensive nozzle that seemingly needs more pressure and doesn't have the same spray range?

I would say that the last 2 are the same nozzle. And the Mcmaster one seems the cheapest @ >$50.
What pump are you going to use to power this? That is where I would be starting - then get the pump curves/charts and the spray ball charts and see what the actual flowrate, pressure and spray diameter will be.
The 1st spray ball seems to require more flow at higher pressures than the 3rd, which a smaller pump may struggle to provide. Although the 2nd and 3rd option seem to disagree with the pressure/flow data?

mattd2 said:

I would say that the last 2 are the same nozzle. And the Mcmaster one seems the cheapest @ >$50.
What pump are you going to use to power this? That is where I would be starting - then get the pump curves/charts and the spray ball charts and see what the actual flowrate, pressure and spray diameter will be.
The 1st spray ball seems to require more flow at higher pressures than the 3rd, which a smaller pump may struggle to provide. Although the 2nd and 3rd option seem to disagree with the pressure/flow data?

Click to expand...

Thanks for the response!

I agree the that last two look like the same nozzle, though the pressure/flow data seems a little different. You're right that the mcmaster is the cheapest, but it's also 3/16" wider than the smallest GWKent model. (It could have been a measurement error, but it looks like one of my carboy necks is 1/16" too narrow for the mcmaster.) That said, I'm happy to pay the extra $5 for the smaller GWKent version, if there isn't any (functional) reason not to.

I'm not sure I see much difference in flow rate or PSI requirements between the GWKent models. I'll outline them here:

TWK (smallest, preferred)
PSI >= 5 to spin
PSI 20-80 (operating)
Flow: 2-7 GPM

Whirling (similar to mcmaster)
PSI >= 5 to spin
PSI 20-60 (operating)
Flow: 2-4 GPM

It's true that the larger GWKent model requires less on the high end, but my pump will be on the low end anyway, so I don't think it makes any difference - unless I'm not considering something.

The pump I'm looking at is a PowerFlo 7800. It looks like it will do 2GPM @ 60PSI. The max temp is 150*, and it can handle chemicals, so PBW shouldn't be any problem for it.

So it looks like this pump will (barely) handle it. I've looked all over for pumps, btw, and haven't really found many that are

(a) affordable
(b) can handle temps around 115*
(c) can handle chemicals
(d) are even close to the the PSI/GPM ratings.

If you have any pointers on better equipped pumps, I'm all ears for those too.

Thanks again!

I would ask GW Kent for a chart on how the spray diameter changes with respect to flowrate. I have not sized sprayballs much but I would take the approach of you know the max output of your pump (2 GPM), so that is the best case that will go through the sprayball (a fair assumption since you will not likely get too much back pressure if it is just hose/pipe and the sprayball). So you assume you flow and check that the pump can deliver that at the expected back pressure - all is good and we are expecting to have 20 PSI @ 2 GPM.
Now ask the vendor to tell you the spray diameter at those values, if that is accepatble buy the smaller one. Basically I look at the bigger one as it can dilery more water those giving a better clean in the same duration.

mattd2 said:

I would ask GW Kent for a chart on how the spray diameter changes with respect to flowrate. I have not sized sprayballs much but I would take the approach of you know the max output of your pump (2 GPM), so that is the best case that will go through the sprayball (a fair assumption since you will not likely get too much back pressure if it is just hose/pipe and the sprayball). So you assume you flow and check that the pump can deliver that at the expected back pressure - all is good and we are expecting to have 20 PSI @ 2 GPM.
Now ask the vendor to tell you the spray diameter at those values, if that is accepatble buy the smaller one. Basically I look at the bigger one as it can dilery more water those giving a better clean in the same duration.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your help! I've sent GW Kent a request for data on how the spray diameter changes with flow rate. In the mean time, I found a spec on the pump listed above that wasn't in the product manual - it looks like it will only do 1.7 GPM @ 20 PSI. (It will do 2 GPM @ 10 PSI). So it looks like the pump is underpowered for any of the nozzles above.

In looking around, I found a NorthStar 3060 that is capable of 3 GPM; 60 PSI. Unfortunately, I can't find a chart that shows the flow rate at varying pressure, so I can't verify that it will provide 2 GPM @ 20 PSI. (I even called the manufacturer, who stated that they don't have that information, as it varies based on the system the pump is connected to.) That said, with the previous pump (rated for 2 GPM; 60 PSI) being so close at (1.7 GPM @ 20 PSI), is it reasonable to assume that a 3 GPM pump will be enough to provide sufficient power for the nozzles listed above? (2+ GPM @ 20 PSI)

Here is my setup from another post:

Thought I would share my build. I don't have any pictures of it, just this video I took that shows everything:

[ame]http://youtu.be/PBtEEMPhd9g[/ame]

I'll give a brief parts list of the things besides the PVC since that is a build to suit your needs type of idea.

3/5 Pump from Harbor Freight. The box lists it at 21 PSI, while the other pumps including more powerful pumps were less than 10 PSI. The pressure in the video appears to be good.

http://www.harborfreight.com/35-horsepower-dirty-water-pump-with-float-switch-69298.html

McMaster plastic sprayball:

http://www.mcmaster.com/71445T84.

This looks to be a really good item and worth the $50 for it.

Question for you guys that use the McMaster rotating nozzle. The website lists the threads as British pipe threads. Are you using a special adapter, re-threading it to 1/2" npt, or just "making it fit " ?

Also I'd like to weigh in on the pumps. I'm not sure the pump PSI rating is so important. The sprayballs are for cleaning tanks with a diameter of 5 feet, so my guess is that's how we can get away with 10psi to clean a 1 foot diameter carboy. The Harbor freight lists it's maximum head as 19.7ft (equals about 8.5 psi) and it obviously works well.

Here is the pump I'm contemplating getting: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001PTT5JM/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

It's a bit more pricey that the HF pump, but it has max head of 21ft and 3000 gallons per hour (vs 19.7 and 2110). But what I really like is that it can handle temps of 140F whereas most of the sump pumps are not rated for much over 100F (77F in the case of the HF pump). Now, can it handle hot PBW? Hmmm...

The McMaster ball fits standard plastic NPT without any leakage issues.

It seems like you are all set but I use the same "D" 1/2 NPT rotating nozzle from McMaster and it works great. BSP fits NPT fine without leaking as the thread pitches are the same more or less.

In case anyone was curious here is the pump I ended up going with:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALUMINUM-BI.../400489208757?pt=BI_Pumps&hash=item5d3f045bb5

Good for about 55PSI, high flow, 140F rated, and under $40 shipped. Outta shoot about 5-6GPM through that McMaster nozzle. I'll let you all know how it works out.

The March pumps we use for brewing drive the McMaster (aka Lechler Mini-Whirly) PVDF rotating nozzle without a problem. I'm using my 809 with high flow impeller and I have to pretty considerably throttle the output of the pump with my diaphragm valve or the nozzle spray is so intense it starts coming out my kettle lid or in case of the fermenter out of my cracked TC port. The key like someone mentioned in another thread is to use better than 1/2" ID tubing. I use 5/8-3/4" ID tubing on all my brewery plumping.