New LHBS and Smoke Shop in Mid Michigan

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wrestler63

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Hi All,
Given the state of the recent economy here in Michigan I am seriously thinking of starting a secondary business and opening a LHBS and Smoke Shop in Mid Michigan. It would be a smoke shop in terms of Cigars and Roll your own cigerettes only. I would appreciate any input from people in the area as to what they would like to see in a quality LHBS.

With the amount of craft brewers in Michigan I was thinking of having brewing seminars from the likes of Dark Hourse, Bells, Founders, as well as others on a monthly basis. I would like to have brew pubs join in as well. I think this will just increase the interest in craft beers made here in Michigan.

I would also like to include some DIY products for sale from brewers around the country.

Any ideas?
 
I will throw in: Hire BREWING staff. The LHBS closest to me hired some part-timers just ther for a check and they couldn't tell you the diference between ale and lager yeast let alone answer a real question. I drive 15 mins farther to NOT go there. I can not imagine they draw a whole lot of new business as they make barrier of entry tougher.

Also, check your opinions at the door. Nothing's worse then going to buy and being told that it is not a legitimate purchase. I make a light, lawnmower ale, and when I asked for the ingredients was asked in response "why don't you brew real beer?". Seriously? "well, seeing as how I am looking at the grains I need why don't you sell real ingredients? Better yet I'm taking my real money out the door!". You will need to sell things you don't like, bottles, extracts,sours, etc. people that use them are not illegitimate brewers. I am getting preachy sorry, but that there is the very reason I'm looking at opening a LHBS myself.

The breweries, classes, service, product, etc is all good. Spend as much time ifnot more on marketing. How are you going to tell the people that need to know. Too many good places overlook that step, if you are not drawing people in, then nothing else matters. How are go going to let you marketshare know you are there?
 
Sorry for the typos, in line at the DMV on my iPhone.

Wanted to add: not sure if your margins on the DIY stuff would be very good. Maybe a consignment agreement to draw in foot traffic, but you're looking at HUGE investment of capital for a long turn around. I have collected a network of welder, fabricators, etc so if people are looking for stuff I can get them help, contact builds or trades. Between the money and floor space I can't make it work as a retail product though. If you do let's talk :)
 
OsbornBrewing said:
I will throw in: Hire BREWING staff. The LHBS closest to me hired some part-timers just ther for a check and they couldn't tell you the diference between ale and lager yeast let alone answer a real question. I drive 15 mins farther to NOT go there. I can not imagine they draw a whole lot of new business as they make barrier of entry tougher.

Also, check your opinions at the door. Nothing's worse then going to buy and being told that it is not a legitimate purchase. I make a light, lawnmower ale, and when I asked for the ingredients was asked in response "why don't you brew real beer?". Seriously? "well, seeing as how I am looking at the grains I need why don't you sell real ingredients? Better yet I'm taking my real money out the door!". You will need to sell things you don't like, bottles, extracts,sours, etc. people that use them are not illegitimate brewers. I am getting preachy sorry, but that there is the very reason I'm looking at opening a LHBS myself.

The breweries, classes, service, product, etc is all good. Spend as much time ifnot more on marketing. How are you going to tell the people that need to know. Too many good places overlook that step, if you are not drawing people in, then nothing else matters. How are go going to let you marketshare know you are there?
Click to expand...

Thank you for your input. All things you have mentioned have crossed my mind. I too have been put off in the past when staff at LHBS have given there opinions when not asked for. " Do you know thats gonna be a hop bomb? " Ah......hell yea, thats why I am brewing it. " Thats alot of Munich for a IIPA, you like that much Munich? " Ah.....hell yea.

I am trying to get some part time brewers from brew pubs as staff as well as myself. I am also going to stock as many items as I can afford to start and increase as time goes. Imediate needs seem to be a large hop and yeast selection. LME and DME selections, beer kits, as well as a fairly large selection of grains. Other large items such as brew equipment will be 1's and 2's and I will re order as sold until I can get more inventory. Flavor additives, bungs, carbouys, buckets ect. will be a medium quanities for now as well.

Then comes some money saving for advertising. Having been self employed for sometime, I know the importance.

I really want to make this fly so I am goiung to do it with as much thought and outside input as possible.

If you maker it and you like it, enjoy !!!!!!
Cheers:mug:
 
You might want to take a trip down to Siciliano's Market if you've never been there or check out their website. As you can tell by looking at the website, they have a large selection and a variety of products, so it's not something you could start out as very easily, but it could give you some ideas for directions to expand in the future.
 
Where in Michigan are you thinking about going? I think this is the perfect state to bring anouther HBS. The place I go to is allways jammed. Also I go 30 mins out of my way to go to a shop that is super friendly, and knowledgable. The place 10 mins away, they are pissed when they get a customer, I think he has to put his internet surfing on hold. That is fine, think i've spent well over 1000 at the good shop. I like the one on one help, and a large stock. I think you need to be as competitive as you can with the prices of your products. Lets face it everybody shops the internet. But i would rather spend my money at the LHBS than online when I can. There are 2 exceptions, but thats the minority. Hope you go through with it, be sure to post some updates when you do....GL
 
I was thinking about this some more, and i have to add, take a page from Forrest's Ausint Homebrew Supply, and do your own kits. EVERYONE carries Best Brew kits, and they are easy, but how hard it would it be to offer you own kits? You're already ordering the ingredients, just double up, package your own, and stamp your logo on it. I think that would be the way to go and once you get to know your clients you could even customize the IPAs, Stouts, etc for them. The Best Brew kits are nice, don't get me wrong, I think you'd better with your own though.
 
Great idea! I live in Columbus, OH and wait to purchase stuff until I get to Webberville, about a 3hr drive on my way up to see the folks. Where abouts in Central MI? M57/US27? Lansing, or Mt. P?
 
payton34 said:
+1 on sicilianos. it's a great store and everyone there has been very helpfull when i go there
Click to expand...

Last time I went in (only time) was a saturday morning and the quality of help was far below average unfortunately. I had high hopes but was let down. I guess I'll stick to ordering online and searching the forum for help. It was a couple younger guys working. Just a bad day? Selection of beer is great though.
 
boostsr20 said:
Last time I went in (only time) was a saturday morning and the quality of help was far below average unfortunately. I had high hopes but was let down. I guess I'll stick to ordering online and searching the forum for help. It was a couple younger guys working. Just a bad day? Selection of beer is great though.
Click to expand...

In my experience, you have to ask for help, which is something that I personally like. I have had good luck asking the woman who works there, and she has been there every time I was there, but I usually go at night. Of the four other employees I've seen there, one or two do seem like they're still learning. So if you were expecting to be asked if you needed help, then no, you're probably not going to get that there unless you manage to look REALLY confused. If you weren't happy with the level of help you got when you asked then I would say just a bad day.
 
I asked a few questions and got some noticeably off answers, even with my limited knowledge. I will for sure give it a shot again though. Maybe try a week night. You know how late they are open? I'm coming from 45 minutes away.
 
If you're considering opening a LHBS in Mid-Michigan, I'd patronize it for sure. One "LHBS" 10 minutes from my house caters to the wine making set and throws in a little beer junk to satisfy the temporarily curious. The other one is really an upscale liquor store, that also caters to the wine set. Their ingredient selection is better, but of the last 5 times I've gone in there with an ingredient list, I've only walked out having not made a substitution once. Ingredients are on the shelf one week and not there the next. It's like they don't order anything until it's gone. They do a brisk business, which is good, I'd just like to go in and actually find what it is I'm looking for. And +1 to the poster who recommended hiring reasonably knowledgeable staff. Yesterday I went to the aforementioned LHBS. I was going to brew Edwort's Bee Cave Brewery Oktoberfest Ale. They didn't have enough Munich, and didn't have any caramunich or caravienne. So I asked for their home brew guy. (They usually have a wine guy and a beer guy there, so I figured they must have a homebrew guy.) The "guy" was an extract brewer and knew less about the ingredients than me. I'm no expert. He made a good effort though. We cross referenced and looked in Papazian's book, and settled on 60L Crystal. It should work out, but still...

If you open up in the Saginaw / Bay City / Midland area, you'll do just fine if you can get the word out that you're the real deal. Do it up! :D
 
I'd be curious on the location too.

I have to agree with having knowledgeable staff as well as helpful and hopefully don't disappear into a back room after a couple quick words or assisting with only one thing at a time on your list. Also, I always double check the contents of the LHBS recipe kits before leaving because I've been burned too many times. It would be nice if they showed you the ingredients against the recipe or at least left them out before bagging so the customer can, it would save some work and hopefully help be more accurate. Worst is the very first time I brewed, they didn't include the recipe sheet! I had to piece things together from a generic brewing book and call them to make heads and tails of it.
 
Primetime said:
Where in Michigan are you thinking about going? I think this is the perfect state to bring anouther HBS. The place I go to is allways jammed. Also I go 30 mins out of my way to go to a shop that is super friendly, and knowledgable. The place 10 mins away, they are pissed when they get a customer, I think he has to put his internet surfing on hold. That is fine, think i've spent well over 1000 at the good shop. I like the one on one help, and a large stock. I think you need to be as competitive as you can with the prices of your products. Lets face it everybody shops the internet. But i would rather spend my money at the LHBS than online when I can. There are 2 exceptions, but thats the minority. Hope you go through with it, be sure to post some updates when you do....GL
Click to expand...

My first location I have picked out is in downtown Mason. It is 15 miles south of Lansing off US-127 about 1.5 miles. There are a few other locations but thought this one might be nice for south and east patrons as well.

Any of you like cigars as well?
Cheers:mug:
 
OsbornBrewing said:
I was thinking about this some more, and i have to add, take a page from Forrest's Ausint Homebrew Supply, and do your own kits. EVERYONE carries Best Brew kits, and they are easy, but how hard it would it be to offer you own kits? You're already ordering the ingredients, just double up, package your own, and stamp your logo on it. I think that would be the way to go and once you get to know your clients you could even customize the IPAs, Stouts, etc for them. The Best Brew kits are nice, don't get me wrong, I think you'd better with your own though.
Click to expand...

Great point !!! Will keep that in the plan for sure.
Thank you for all your input.
 
Joemama474 said:
If you're considering opening a LHBS in Mid-Michigan, I'd patronize it for sure. One "LHBS" 10 minutes from my house caters to the wine making set and throws in a little beer junk to satisfy the temporarily curious. The other one is really an upscale liquor store, that also caters to the wine set. Their ingredient selection is better, but of the last 5 times I've gone in there with an ingredient list, I've only walked out having not made a substitution once. Ingredients are on the shelf one week and not there the next. It's like they don't order anything until it's gone. They do a brisk business, which is good, I'd just like to go in and actually find what it is I'm looking for. And +1 to the poster who recommended hiring reasonably knowledgeable staff. Yesterday I went to the aforementioned LHBS. I was going to brew Edwort's Bee Cave Brewery Oktoberfest Ale. They didn't have enough Munich, and didn't have any caramunich or caravienne. So I asked for their home brew guy. (They usually have a wine guy and a beer guy there, so I figured they must have a homebrew guy.) The "guy" was an extract brewer and knew less about the ingredients than me. I'm no expert. He made a good effort though. We cross referenced and looked in Papazian's book, and settled on 60L Crystal. It should work out, but still...

If you open up in the Saginaw / Bay City / Midland area, you'll do just fine if you can get the word out that you're the real deal. Do it up! :D
Click to expand...

Brewing knowledge is so important in this business. That is why I am a little concerned of my own personal Lager knowledge. I am an Ale brewer primarily and will need the assistance of an experienced Lager brewer. I have read enough to point anyone in the right direction although tweaking or formulating a Pilsner or Imperial Lager would be a stretch for me. I was going to post ads online for employees.
:mug:
 
wrestler63 said:
My first location I have picked out is in downtown Mason. It is 15 miles south of Lansing off US-127 about 1.5 miles. There are a few other locations but thought this one might be nice for south and east patrons as well.

Any of you like cigars as well?
Cheers:mug:
Click to expand...

Well wrestler,

If you do open up in Mason, I will definitely be coming by. I'm a couple minutes North on Cedar right by 96. I think it is a pretty good location. I always have to go out to Webberville.

Be prepared for MSU freshman looking to make dormroom beer ("I don't care what it tastes like, I just want it to **** you up! More sugar you say?"), although, it is probably a little far for most of them to wander.
 
hammacks said:
Well wrestler,

If you do open up in Mason, I will definitely be coming by. I'm a couple minutes North on Cedar right by 96. I think it is a pretty good location. I always have to go out to Webberville.

Be prepared for MSU freshman looking to make dormroom beer ("I don't care what it tastes like, I just want it to **** you up! More sugar you say?"), although, it is probably a little far for most of them to wander.
Click to expand...

NP..... I may still have my extract recipe for dorm beer somewere.....LOL
:tank:
 
Another dim thought I had to help keep costs down for extract brewers was to order LME and DME in bulk and basically sell by the pound as ordered. A little time consuming but should help cost wise for most. I could also do the same with commonly used hop varieties. Measure out amount of hops needed, vacuum seal and out the door. Re seal bulk and there you go......should be able to maintain decent margins as well as help the customers.:mug:
 
I know inventory costs the merchant a lot of money, but for me a store being well stocked is extremely important. If I have to go online to order something I can't find locally I end up ordering tons of stuff. I figure I have to pay shipping anyway and the prices are usually better so while I'm at it I stock up. I don't mind a little higher prices as much as I mind an incomplete inventory.

Also, +1 on staff with good knowledge, love of all kinds of beer and brewing, open minds, and desire to learn more and more.
 
wrestler63 said:
Another dim thought I had to help keep costs down for extract brewers was to order LME and DME in bulk and basically sell by the pound as ordered. A little time consuming but should help cost wise for most. I could also do the same with commonly used hop varieties. Measure out amount of hops needed, vacuum seal and out the door. Re seal bulk and there you go......should be able to maintain decent margins as well as help the customers.:mug:
Click to expand...

Sicilianos does that for LME. They just have customers bring in their own container to take it home in. It might be harder to do with DME just because my experience with DME involves it sticking to everything and making a bit of a mess.
 
wow all these people in michigan pipe up when someone talks about opening a lhbs but none of em will come to a brewday to meet fellow brewers? the michigan predators(subset of the mashers) wil be having a spring brewday on sat may 1 in rockford, pm fsr402 for directions. bring your brewkit and a dish to pass.

op i'd have to say you might have a problem getting the micro's brewers to come to your shop(goood lick getting larry bell to do anything to help michigan brewers imho) some of the smaller ones like dh and arcadia maybe doable. josh at arcadia(used to be at mbc) seems a pretty cool kat and very open about brewing practices when i've been in talking to him.
 
I probably wouldn't go there to buy stuff, because it is too far away from me, but I'll hit Siciliano's when I'm down that way. I like their helpfulness. If you have a question, they can usually answer it. Although I admit, I feel I am knowledgeable enough myself to not need the help. And they are hosting a "homebrew day" on May 15th. TONS OF FUN!

And I'm sure going to the Predators homebrew day. Last one was real fun, and this one should be too. (Although we will miss Yooper).

I'd like someone to open a Homebrew shop in either Big Rapids or Cadillac, please. Grunst Brothers in BR used to have stuff at years ago, but they dropped it years ago and even though the kid said he will ask his dad about getting it back in there, the owner seems gun shy about trying it again. I think the homebrewing culture has changed for the better in the past 15 years and I think he could manage to make it work.

The smoke shop would be a turn-off for me. Sorry.
 
Have some decent hours of operation! Every LHBS that i have ever been to had horrible hours: only open three days a week, only between the hours of 4-8pm, no holidays, etc. I really want to go to a local shop instead of dealing with the internet, but they make it really hard to buy anything.
And if you have any success, branch out and open a shop near me.
 
wrestler63: +1 for Mason area, +1 for a few cigars perhaps (I know some others that would probably be interested too).

eriktlupus: I might be interested in the brewday but its about 1.5+ hours from where I live and about 4000 miles from where I'll be on May 1. My brain shut off when I saw the date and I didn't read the thread. Maybe another time!
 
bsdx,
this will definitely not be the only one this summer. in fact i'm pretty sure we'll be having at least one in your town sometime once henryhill gets some time off from work.
 
FromZwolle said:
Have some decent hours of operation! Every LHBS that i have ever been to had horrible hours: only open three days a week, only between the hours of 4-8pm, no holidays, etc. I really want to go to a local shop instead of dealing with the internet, but they make it really hard to buy anything.
And if you have any success, branch out and open a shop near me.
Click to expand...

Our initial plans are for hours to be 11am - 9pm Monday through Saturday.

I am looking into a limited retail license as well to carry just craft beers.
 
Well, e-mails are in to several suppliers. Looking at wholesale costs, turn around and payment procedures. Now on to Cigar suppliers as well as roll your own cig stuff.
We will see what happens.
:mug:
 
wrestler63 said:
My first location I have picked out is in downtown Mason. It is 15 miles south of Lansing off US-127 about 1.5 miles. There are a few other locations but thought this one might be nice for south and east patrons as well.

Any of you like cigars as well?
Cheers:mug:
Click to expand...

+1 on that location!!!! We drive 127 about 6 times a year to see my parents at Higgins Lake. I can let SWMBO get gas and take care ofthe daughter and I'll stop in and harass you, I mean shop :)
 
As far as the cigars go, my only thought would be to separate it from the brewing store. An inside door or something to link the two. The smokers i have been around don't have a problem with drinking, but the non-smokers i have been around are not very tolerant of smoking. If you make them walk through a cigar shop you risk losing a whole client segment. Just a thought.

The brewers will come if they feel they are getting something out of it, namely beer sales. :). If you approach them with " hey I got this beer store and if you showed i would et a lot of interest" they are like yeah, I am in business to get you sales, NO! And then people are left with this feeling that they don't want to help the beer scene or something like that. The paradox is you need them to draw a crowd, but you need a crowd to get their attention.
Plan some space for demos, classses, etc. Host a local homebrew club. Host a demo or class, get ALL YOUR friends and family, club members to come, use some marketing dollars to pay the ones you have to to FILL your place. Take pictures and keep a log. That way when you approach the brewers you can say, we did Beer 101 and had xx people there, if you came it would be double that and at $20 a ticket that 2000 or whatever for you plus whatever beer you sell. Now you are offering them something instead of asking them for a favor.
 
Mr. Osborn,
Thank you so much for your info......Kinda funny. When I got back into Homebrewing 3 years back I went all grain and watched quite a few of your videos on you tube as well as visited your website. My 1st mash tun was modeled after yours.

Anyway, the smoke shop is simply to buy product, no smoking inside shop. It will be separated from the HB section. The layout we have in mind is at the back of the store with a faux wall and a room you enter.

My 1st mash tun gave me an idea to have a few inexpensive DYI mash tun available at the shop for a little over cost as well as my DYI IC. Thought being if I help people get started cheaply, relationship forms and they return for all their ingredients and up grades.
 
Well, got quick replies from wholesale hops and whitelabs. Still waiting on Breiss. Sending info to LD Carleson Tues.

Need to find a packaging device for 1 and 2 oz. of hops.
 

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