Fill Your Own Dang (CO2) Bottle.

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BigKahuna

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Ok, So when I started Kegging, the only C02 I could get in town was a 50# bottle, and nobody within 100 miles would fill my 5#'er, so I got the 50. It was very expensive, but the refill is a little less than twice the cost of filling a 5# at around $32.00, so the math is pretty simple.
I currently have a regular tank (no Siphon tube) but plan on just trading it for one with a tube next time I trade it in.
Without the siphon tube, I have to turn the big tank upside down to fill the little tank, but that isn't a big deal (I just set it 5 or 6 steps from the bottom and hold onto it when I'm filling. EDIT*** USE EXTREME CAUTION WHEN HANDLING ANY HIGH PRESSURE TANK. THE 50# TANKS ARE VERY HEAVY AND DIFFICULT TO WORK WITH. SERIOUS INJURY OR DEATH CAN RESULY FROM TANKS BEING DROPPED WHILE TRYING TO INVERT.

With the siphon tube this won't be the case.

What I have here:
2 Regulator Stems that the Brew Hut in Denver got me.
1 Brass Union.
2 extra gaskets.

That's it.

With no pump, you'll only get about 4 # of C02 in the 5# bottle, but when you've got 46 more in the basement....who cares.

Fittings.jpg


and on the tank:

Tank.jpg
 
BigKahuna,
What are you trying to say here? 5 or 6 steps from the bottom of what? I think you may be talking stairs or a ladder. If that ever fell over you would have a rocket. Ouch.

I just set it 5 or 6 steps from the bottom and hold onto it when I'm filling.
 
BigKahuna,
What are you trying to say here?
I take it a few steps up the stairs then CAREFULLY tip it over..Valve DOWN. Yes, you screw up and knock the valve off, Someone is going to die...or at very least get reallllly hurt. I am pretty confident in my safety...as I've spent my life dealing with HIGH pressure tanks. Not a big deal for me, but if you are uncomfortable doing it...lay it down and block the bottom of the tank up a bit.
 
I take it a few steps up the stairs then CAREFULLY tip it over..Valve DOWN. Yes, you screw up and knock the valve off, Someone is going to die...or at very least get reallllly hurt. I am pretty confident in my safety...as I've spent my life dealing with HIGH pressure tanks. Not a big deal for me, but if you are uncomfortable doing it...lay it down and block the bottom of the tank up a bit.

I don't worry about brewers that know what they are doing. It's the one's that are clueless and try to figure it out on their own that cause problems. I don't think anyone without a clue would go out and try this, but I don't know. It's not a bad idea, as long as you understand the concept ( and there are still people on this board that think CO2 is stored in gad form). So I give hats off to you BK, I just hope none of the novices take this to heart to try it out in order to save a couple bucks in the long run.

I just want to state that I am making no type of insult toward BK at all. Just an impassive third party, type of public service announcement sort of statement.
 
I just want to state that I am making no type of insult toward BK at all. Just an impassive third party, type of public service announcement sort of statement.

AND YOU BETTER KEEP IT THAT WAY OR ELSE....OH Wait...Wrong thread...:cross:

You Make A good Point. Please See the Edit to Original Post, as this is one of my New Pet Peeves.
 
AND YOU BETTER KEEP IT THAT WAY OR ELSE....OH Wait...Wrong thread...:cross:

You Make A good Point. Please See the Edit to Original Post, as this is one of my New Pet Peeves.

I know as we progress and learn new things, we try to express ourselves on this forum to help our fellow brewers. We sometime forget about the new people brewing that might suck this up like the word of god. I've been there myself, I'm sure, in one aspect or another. (But I could honestly see myself buying a 50# tank, hanging it from my porch roof, and filling up my tanks from it. Not a bad idea, I just think I would save myself the hassle after thinking about it, and get myself a siphon tube.)

Cheers, BK, you are just like me, always thinking of crafty ways to get the job done.
 
If you are worried about BigK's method, it would be easy enough to make a harness out of lightweight chain so the bottle could be suspended inverted. Chain would not stretch like a fabric or rope harness might and it would secure the tank off the ground for easy transfers. I would make sure what you are suspending it from can support several times the weight of the cylinder.
 
But we use gas co2 instead of liquid co2 to push beer with. With the diptube in place we would have to invert the tank to use it. Wouldn't this cause us to get liquid co2 if placed in the upright position?
 
But we use gas co2 instead of liquid co2 to push beer with. With the diptube in place we would have to invert the tank to use it. Wouldn't this cause us to get liquid co2 if placed in the upright position?

He is transferring liquid Co2 from a larger cylinder to smaller ones, which in turn he will use for his beer.
 
Fortunately, I don;t have a need to fill my own tanks but I have often considered getting a large 100# bottle for CO2. I find them on the cheap around here and it makes sense to me to get one in that the service will pick it up and swap with a full. Since I rarely leave the valve open there is no concern for a leak draining out the tank and the frequency of fill is drastically reduced.
 
If one were to do something like this on a regular basis, I imagine a safe and easy way would be to fabricate some sort of stand with a cradle that pivots. Obviously it would have to be robust enough to handle the weight of the tank. Strap or chain the tank into place and just flip it over. Properly balanced you could probably rotate it with your finger.
Am I making any sense? Over-engineering things? :confused:

Chris
 
If one were to do something like this on a regular basis, I imagine a safe and easy way would be to fabricate some sort of stand with a cradle that pivots. Obviously it would have to be robust enough to handle the weight of the tank. Strap or chain the tank into place and just flip it over. Properly balanced you could probably rotate it with your finger.
Am I making any sense? Over-engineering things? :confused:

Chris

This was my plan....when I was planning on using the big tank for both Pushing and Filling.
Now I'm happy with the 5# and am content to just trade for a tank with a siphon tube.
 
I went to airgas today to get some gas and talked to the guy for awhile about getting a 50 lb tank with a dip tube. He said that you don't want to fill a smaller tank like this as all you will fill the smaller tank with is liquid C02 and that you could only get the smaller tank filled up to about 90%. I tried arguing with him a bit that the liquid would covert to gas as it escaped the smaller tank but he was sure that it was a bad idea. I honestly think he was full of it, but he was willing to put his entire C02 career on it. Thoughts?
 
On the one had, he's a moron. You want liquid CO2, 90% is fine (BK is saying 80% and is happy with it) and of course liquid CO2 turns to gas - that's how any CO2 tank works. And what does the primary pressure gauge on the tank tell us? That's right, the temperature. Put it on a scale if you want to know how much is in it.

On the other hand, it's probably the "right" answer (with the wrong reasons given) if you are an employee of Airgas. Without someone who WILL NOT fill your tank if it's out of hydro, you could just merrily refill your small tank long past the date it should be re-hydro tested at. And that could be bad. Very Bad.

Not that I'm planning on a keg setup, but do any of you convert CO2 fire extinguishers as your gas bottles? Seems like it would work fine, and might be cheaper at certain phases of the market.<edit> - then again, probably all the threads are different and nothing matches up. Nevermind </edit>
 
Just a thought and not sure if it would work, but I've seen people move gasses/liquids from tank to tank by warming one and chilling the other. You may not even have to invert a larger tank if this would work. Just keep the 5lb er in an ice water bucket and let things run their course.
 
Just a thought and not sure if it would work, but I've seen people move gasses/liquids from tank to tank by warming one and chilling the other. You may not even have to invert a larger tank if this would work. Just keep the 5lb er in an ice water bucket and let things run their course.
Even easier, you use the CO2 itself for that purpose.
Put a bit of CO2 into the 5#'er, then disconnect it and open the valve for a bit, purging CO2 which will rapidly chill the tank. Doesn't take much to get it so cold it frosts over. Then hook it back up and do a proper fill.

That's the way I've always seen it done with paintball tanks, where you really want a full fill.

The problem is, you really ought to use a scale on the tank being filled, because by chilling the tank it's quite possible to over-fill it and then when it warms back up it'll blow the relief valve.
 
Bump!

BigKahuna, where did you get the brass union? I picked up parts at the welding shop today but they didn't have any brass unions. I'm going to check the hardware store after work to see if they have one that will fit. I noticed my nipples are tapered :)D) so I'm curious how far you were able to thread the union.
 
I'd like to point out...

A "FULL" CO2 tank is about 2/3rd the way filled with liquid. The gas headspace is an important thing to have to prevent rupture discs from going off when the tank gets exposed to heat...like when transporting in a vehicle.

If you fill your own tanks...as a safety precaution...please weigh the tank to make sure it's not over filled. IE... 5# of CO2 in a 5# bottle etc. If it's not printed on the neck of the tank...do yourself a favor and weight the tank empty...and write it on the tank somewhere.
 
I don't want to sound like a chicken little on this, but I would be very concerned about that brass coupling. It looks to be a standard off the shelf brass pipe coupling and I doubt very much that it is rated for the high pressure of the CO2. You have obviously used it without any problem. The trouble is that it could weaken through use and fail. A failure could be catastrophic. The other fittings appear to be OK, but I would look for a different coupling. Compressed gasses can be extremely hazardous. More so if you aren't trained properly.
 
I don't want to sound like a chicken little on this, but I would be very concerned about that brass coupling. It looks to be a standard off the shelf brass pipe coupling and I doubt very much that it is rated for the high pressure of the CO2. You have obviously used it without any problem. The trouble is that it could weaken through use and fail. A failure could be catastrophic. The other fittings appear to be OK, but I would look for a different coupling. Compressed gasses can be extremely hazardous. More so if you aren't trained properly.

This is very dangerous! I used to be a fire fighter and we used to refill our Scott bottles using a cascade system. I have heard of guys who know what they are doing make a simple mistake and kapow when filling a scott bottle. This is an accident waiting to happen..
 
BK must use a LOT of gas. I filled my 20# tank over two years ago and I think it is just starting to get to the point I need to get it filled. I have probably carbonated 50 cornies since I last filled the tank, and pushed a lot of liquids as I cleaned those cornies over and over. I can't imagine having 50 pounds of co2. It would be nice to never have to fill. Why don't you just run a gas line and use the 50# tank as your source?
If you are going through more than 10# co2 a year (as a casual to nominally aggressive homebrewer), I think you need to leak check.

I don't mean to criticize, I just don't see the need to have that much gas. I'm sure there is one, but for most, living near a carbonics supply source is not unusual. Oh, and the gas is cheap. Way cheaper than propane.
 
If you are seriously into filling your own tanks (I think for many it is a cost saving idea worth the effort), wouldn't it be a good idea to pull a vacuum on the 5# tank prior to filling (getting tank down to 28"-29" of vacuum). I would also assume that a scale would be in order for weighing the actual tank to ensure that you do not overfill and create a dangerous condition. I know not everyone has a reliable vacuum pump sitting around, but those that do and re-fill their own, might benefit from trying this option.

Salute! :mug:
 
If you are seriously into filling your own tanks (I think for many it is a cost saving idea worth the effort), wouldn't it be a good idea to pull a vacuum on the 5# tank prior to filling (getting tank down to 28"-29" of vacuum). I would also assume that a scale would be in order for weighing the actual tank to ensure that you do not overfill and create a dangerous condition. I know not everyone has a reliable vacuum pump sitting around, but those that do and re-fill their own, might benefit from trying this option.

Salute! :mug:

+1 on the scale. I don't understand why you need a vacuum pump but I take your word on it. Is it just to make sure there is absolutely sure it is totally empty?
 
Using a scale is mandatory, not optional. Only a fool would attempt to fill a CO2 cylinder without using a scale.

Here's another life saving tip concerning compressed gas cylinders. Never bake them in an oven. There have been cases where people have removed the tank valve, painted the cylinder and baked it in an oven to cure the paint. They then replaced the valve and attempted to fill the tank. The result was explosion and death. Not funny at all.
 
Creating a vacuum inside the tank also creates more volume for CO2 to occupy. The scale is then needed to ensure you do not overfill the tank.

Salute! :mug:

What is in the 'empty' tank that you want to pull a vacuum on? I would assume it contains gaseous CO2. If that's the case, why would one want to suck out the remaining CO2 so that more CO2 could be put in?
 
Here is a picture how I fill my small Co2 tanks. I just made a holder for a 20lb tank upside down and information from some paint ballers. Works great shot of co2 and dump gets the tanks cold open fill valve and watch scale.
MVC-679S-1.jpg


Hope this helps

Dominus Vobiscum

Swagman:cool:
 
Not that I'm planning on a keg setup, but do any of you convert CO2 fire extinguishers as your gas bottles? Seems like it would work fine, and might be cheaper at certain phases of the market.<edit> - then again, probably all the threads are different and nothing matches up. Nevermind </edit>

my old boss used to convert them and sell em. its the same 20# bottle and valve. but can be tricky to get filled. airgas has tightened their sphinkter over the years.
 
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