What would happen if you boiled beer?

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Calypso

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If oxygen is the enemy of beer, what would happen if you boiled your finished beer? Obviously you'd have to force carb or pitch more yeast, but beyond that, what would happen? It should drive off oxygen, right?

I want to do an experiment with a split batch. Batch one is normal, batch two is heavily aerated after fermentation, and batch three is heavily aerated, then boiled for 60 minutes.
 
My dad makes his own NA this way. Well not exactly NA, gets them under 1%. The premise is to burn off the alcohol, but not boil the beer.
 
Calypso said:
Covered boil, since we're passed the point where we're concerned with DMS? I also wonder how much alcohol would boil off.
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you should have minimal O2 in the beer by end of fermentation right. Additional oxygen is introduce when racking, and head space in bottles. so boiling the beer wouldn't gain you much, as you would have to cool it and transfer anyway... picking up the same oxygen you would if you went straight from the fermenter.
If you do you trial, I would say you need for tests:
1. Standard wort
2. Aerated wort
3. Aerated wort boiled
4. Standard wort boiled
 
brettg20 said:
Water would evaporate and the ABV level would actually increase, not get boiled off.
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Not to be a jerk, but alcohol boils at ~173f, it would start evaporating before even hitting a boil. There's even threads from a few years ago of making NA style beers this way...
 
mattd2 said:
... picking up the same oxygen you would if you went straight from the fermenter.
If you do you trial, I would say you need for tests:
1. Standard wort
2. Aerated wort
3. Aerated wort boiled
4. Standard wort boiled
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Good point, that would be another good control.

Partly it's curiosity, and partly it's wondering if there's recourse for people that accidentally introduce significant oxygen to their finished beer.
 
I wouldn't have thought boiling would remove oxygenated flavor molecules in the beer. It would reduce dissolved oxygen intentionally added by you, largely eliminate alcohol owing to the much lower boiling point of ethanol and probably destroy any remaining desired delicate flavor compounds derived from the yeast.

There is a good sticky how I neutered my beer by @Biermuncher No boiling was done.

Can't say I see the merits in your experiment but different strokes for different folks and all that jazz.

I'm a fan of Glüwein in the winter months. I like it warm but you gotta be real careful not to boil it as it destroys the flavor IMO. I would imagine boiling your beer would give similar undesirable results.
 
I think more than anything else boiling or simmering or heating the finished beer will do the following.

Evaporate off some alcohol and water.
Kill off some/all hop aroma and flavors
Kill off the yeast requiring force carb or addition of fresh yeast prior to bottling

More than anything I think it would force age the beer and pasturize it.
 
Gavin C said:
I wouldn't have thought boiling would remove oxygenated flavor molecules in the beer. It would reduce dissolved oxygen intentionally added by you, largely eliminate alcohol owing to the much lower boiling point of ethanol and probably destroy any remaining desired delicate flavor compounds derived from the yeast.

There is a good sticky how I neutered my beer by @Biermuncher No boiling was done.

Can't say I see the merits in your experiment but different strokes for different folks and all that jazz.

I'm a fan of Glüwein in the winter months. I like it warm but you gotta be real careful not to boil it as it destroys the flavor IMO. I would imagine boiling your beer would give similar undesirable results.
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Interesting read.

If the beer was already oxidized, I would agree with you. But in theory, driving off dissolved oxygen should help prevent further oxidation. Also, SCIENCE!
 
Yeast are great scavengers of O2 and to some extent oxidized flavor molecules like trans-2-nonenal, so redosing with fresh yeast and little sugar could potentially revive an oxidized beer.

Boiling beer will do nothing but ruin it, unless you're cooking a roast with it. You won't care if it's oxidized or not.
 
Partly it's curiosity said:
If you're already getting a cardboard/wet paper/stale flavor, the damage is done. If the beer got overly oxygenated and there are no off flavors, I'd say just keep the beer cold and drink it all ASAP.
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What's the objective of this experiment? I'm not seeing it yet.

Your 'normal' batch will come out the best and take the least amount of effort.
 
Calypso said:
what would happen if you boiled your finished beer?
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We do this all the time when we are assaying acohol and determining true extract. The result is a foul smelling, dark soup of precipitated protein. I can't imagine what it tastes like but I'll bet, based on the smell, that it isn't too good.
 
andy6026 said:
What's the objective of this experiment? I'm not seeing it yet.

Your 'normal' batch will come out the best and take the least amount of effort.
Click to expand...

You guys have no imagination! What if the boiled beer turns out decent? It could even give people another option if they discover that their batch is infected. Maybe it'll taste even better! Or maybe it'll be a total failure. But that's experimentation for you.
 
ajdelange said:
We do this all the time when we are assaying acohol and determining true extract. The result is a foul smelling, dark soup of precipitated protein. I can't imagine what it tastes like but I'll bet, based on the smell, that it isn't too good.
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Gross.

You know, maybe I could try this with some store bought beer. That way I don't have to brew a gallon of beer just to ruin it.
 
Calypso said:
You guys have no imagination! What if the boiled beer turns out decent? It could even give people another option if they discover that their batch is infected. Maybe it'll taste even better! Or maybe it'll be a total failure. But that's experimentation for you.
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Go for it then. I've already 'imagined' what it will taste like, and it doesn't sound appealing enough to make me want to subject a perfectly good batch of beer to the boil yet again, but if your imagination is showing promise for different results then nobody here will stop you.
 
I second seeing it having a decent impact on hop flavors and aroma.

Would be interesting though on a malt-forward beer.
 
I want to correct a misconception that is propagated in this thread, that ethanol, having lower boiling point than water, will evaporate off before boil.
That is not true. A mixture of water and ethanol, will boil at lower temperature. When boiling, erhanol AND water will boil off, though the steam will have a higher concentration ethanol than the original liquid.
 
alphaomega said:
I want to correct a misconception that is propagated in this thread, that ethanol, having lower boiling point than water, will evaporate off before boil.
That is not true.
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It is true. Check up on Raoult's law.

alphaomega said:
A mixture of water and ethanol, will boil at lower temperature. When boiling, erhanol AND water will boil off, though the steam will have a higher concentration ethanol than the original liquid.
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That's also the case of vapor over a mixture that is not boiling as alcohol has higher vapor pressure at any temperature than water.

Exception: azeotropic mixtures.
 
ajdelange said:
It is true. Check up on Raoult's law.

That's also the case of vapor over a mixture that is not boiling as alcohol has higher vapor pressure at any temperature than water.

Exception: azeotropic mixtures.
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I'm no chemist, but I grazed the wikipedia page, and I don't see how that applies to the point I am making.
I might have formulated myself a bit badly, I agree that the same is true at any temperature and not just above the boiling point.

My point is, if you heat the mixture above the boiling point of ethanol, the ethanol isn't magically boiled off and you are left without it. Both ethanol AND water evaporate off both above the boiling point of the mixture and (at a lower rate) below, though ethanol to a higher degree.

Edit: That is, to make NA beer, heating to the boiling point of ethanol is just not going to do anything magical. You may aswell boil for a while to drive of the ethanol quicker.

Edit 2: I re-read my original post, and yeah, I did mess that up. It did not come out the way it should. You are right, and I see now why you referred to Raoult 's law also. I did not mean to say there is no evaporation below boiling.
 
alphaomega said:
I'm no chemist, but I grazed the wikipedia page, and I don't see how that applies to the point I am making.
I might have formulated myself a bit badly, I agree that the same is true at any temperature and not just above the boiling point.

My point is, if you heat the mixture above the boiling point of ethanol, the ethanol isn't magically boiled off and you are left without it. Both ethanol AND water evaporate off both above the boiling point of the mixture and (at a lower rate) below, though ethanol to a higher degree.

Edit: That is, to make NA beer, heating to the boiling point of ethanol is just not going to do anything magical. You may aswell boil for a while to drive of the ethanol quicker.

Edit 2: I re-read my original post, and yeah, I did mess that up. It did not come out the way it should. You are right, and I see now why you referred to Raoult 's law also. I did not mean to say there is no evaporation below boiling.
Click to expand...

Without going to check and relying on my poor memory - the vapour would be approx. 30% water / 70% EtOH. Getting higher than that requires a reflux still... but lets not go down that path and get this thread locked ;)
 

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