3.2% States and their beer/wine regulations...

So this question came up in the 3.2% thread and it made me say hmmm;

annasdadhockey said:

MMMMMMMM!!!! 3.2% barleywine. I can't wait to try that.

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In these 3.2 states, do they have ABV limits on wine? I've never seen 3.2% wine. Since they require beer above 3.2% to be in a liquor store, does wine have to be as well? No wine in grocery or convenience stores at all?

If they allow wine in grocery/convenience and not beer, do they consider barleywine to be wine, or beer (ya, I know it's just strong beer, but still)? How about mead? How about braggot? Are these in liquor or grocery stores? How do they separate it? If it's grain based, it's beer, anything else is wine? What about wine coolers, Zima (do they still make that?), Mike's Hard, hard apple cider, etc, that don't fit into either category?

Here in WA, distilled products are in the state-run liquor store and everything else is available in grocery/convenience stores (as far as I know, there might be a few exceptions, but I can't think of any). I can't comment on the new 41%ABV beer that recently came out because I don't think we have it here yet, if ever. I also have not seen really high ABV beer either, like DFH 120min IPA at 18%, or Sam Adams Utopias at 27%, but I have had some 11% barleywine from the grocery store. I don't know where, if any, cut off there is for un-distilled products.

If I was in a state that allowed wine, but not "strong" beer in grocery stores, I'd have a real problem with that. Seems like product discrimination. After all, these products are cousins. Both are made by extracting sugars from natural products and then fermenting, bottling, and distributing. I just don't see a difference.

Agreed.

Iirc, Utopias is not legal to sell here in wa, might be wrong and I have no idea why.

same in NH, all distilled spirits are sold only at state liquor stores, but its tax free so nobody is complaining. In Maine on the other hand, you can pretty much buy liquor at Toys R Us.

All wine is sold in the bottle shops in Oklahoma. would be so cool to get some at the food store. but its EVIL and can not be put next to our food.

I do know that Avery Mephistopheles at 15% ABV is available at WA state beer shops.

http://www.averybrewing.com/index2.html

Ma..ma..mm..mama says high gravity is the devil!

philrose said:

Agreed.

Iirc, Utopias is not legal to sell here in wa, might be wrong and I have no idea why.

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I've been searching the WA Liquor Control Board and can't seem to find a maximum ABV for beer. "Malt Beverage" is a maximum of 8% ABW and anything above that is considered "Strong Beer".

gtpro said:

same in NH, all distilled spirits are sold only at state liquor stores, but its tax free so nobody is complaining. In Maine on the other hand, you can pretty much buy liquor at Toys R Us.

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Our spirits are pretty heavily taxed. Sounds like you guys have it pretty good.

buzzkill said:

All wine is sold in the bottle shops in Oklahoma. would be so cool to get some at the food store. but its EVIL and can not be put next to our food.

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That really sucks. So basically, anything over 3.2% is deemed "dangerous" and obviously needs to be heavily regulated.

McKBrew said:

I do know that Avery Mephistopheles at 15% ABV is available at WA state beer shops.

http://www.averybrewing.com/index2.html

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That's cool. I haven't run across that one yet. Good to know.

Mikethepoolguy said:

Ma..ma..mm..mama says high gravity is the devil!

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You mean your brother...big brother.

Here in Iowa there is a max on beer of 6% abv. Any beer over that must be bought from the state of Iowa. A liquor store or grocery store will buy it from the state and then sell it to you. I can get lots of great high gravity beers but they are high priced. I just got done with a 6 pack of 2010 Sierra Nevada Bigfoot. What really sucks about this law is that Iowa breweries cannot brew over 6% but the state will import big brews from other states.

I was told by a guy I know who has one of the 8 Distillery Licenses in WA that 20% is the magic number.

northernlad said:

I was told by a guy I know who has one of the 8 Distillery Licenses in WA that 20% is the magic number.

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sounds about right, dogfish 120 is available in stores and bars @ 18% just under that mark

Hey philrose, do you have the name of a few stores I can find DFH 120 in and around Seattle? My wife will be up there this weekend and I would like her to pick me up a bottle along with some Pliny.

Most of WA regulations are done in ABW which is about 20% lower than ABV. If the law says 20% ABW that puts our ABV at 25% which outlaws Utopias, but most other stuff is legal. I can live with that.

I have a friend that lives in UT and hates their rules. If it weren't for his job, he'd be out of there quickly. Unless things have changed, you could only buy 3.2 in stores and everything else was in liquior stores and had very hefty taxes. I keep meaning to send him some homebrew.

I can get 90 and 120 at Haggen's. I assume you could try a Top Foods as they are the same company. I know there aren't many Haggen's that far South.

buzzkill said:

All wine is sold in the bottle shops in Oklahoma. would be so cool to get some at the food store. but its EVIL and can not be put next to our food.

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Ayup. Below 3.2% is regulated by local Health authorities and required to be refridgerated.

Above is regulated by the Federal ABLE commission and is illeagal to be sold chilled.

Further, LS must close at 9:00pm while C-Stores can sell til 2:00am.

Yet, I can drive to any pub, drink whatever, and drive home til 2:00am.

It takes a politician to concoct this crap.

No matter what you think of any law, it has winners and losers. The winner gets a big pay day and the loser gets to pay for it.

Or put a simpler way "Follow the money."

Our Top is pretty small. They do have some decent beers, but no 120min or even 90min. The only 90min I tried was from Cost Plus World Market they have a pretty good selection of oddball beers. The Bayview Thriftway in downtown Oly has an amazing selection, but no Pliny and no 120min.

KiltedCorpse said:

Hey philrose, do you have the name of a few stores I can find DFH 120 in and around Seattle? My wife will be up there this weekend and I would like her to pick me up a bottle along with some Pliny.

Most of WA regulations are done in ABW which is about 20% lower than ABV. If the law says 20% ABW that puts our ABV at 25% which outlaws Utopias, but most other stuff is legal. I can live with that.

I have a friend that lives in UT and hates their rules. If it weren't for his job, he'd be out of there quickly. Unless things have changed, you could only buy 3.2 in stores and everything else was in liquior stores and had very hefty taxes. I keep meaning to send him some homebrew.

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Dogfish head and others can be easily found at bottleworks in wallingford.

Pliny on the other hand is a tricky bastard. I've found it at whole foods on westlake multiple times. DeLaurenti in the pike place market always seems to have it as tourists don't know what they're buying or maybe just want local beer. Everytime I'm at the market I stop by for some pliny.

One other russian river beer worth picking up is consecration, its readily available at whole foods. Best Sour you can get!

Missouri sales liquor pretty much anywhere. We even have areas in KC that you can have an open beer outside in public (Power and Light and sometimes in Westport) On the other side of state line road in Kansas, they are a 3.2 state. As you might guess, we make some money off those poor Kansans!

In Tennessee we can get beers up to 6% ABV in a grocery store. No wine or liquor. No beer sales between like midnight and midday Sunday.

Wines, spirits and any beer over 6% we can only get in a liquor store. These are closed by law on Sunday.

Stupid blue laws.

Ohhhh how I miss the Motherland of WA.
In colorado, they don't sell wine in the grocery stores, only 3.2 beer. If you want to buy a good beer or bottle of wine, it requires going to the liquor store, but they're all over the place, and open 7 days a week.

Hard alcohol is also quite a bit cheaper than WA, and beer is comparatively priced--but not necessarily comparably flavored. (Sorry, I have and always will have a preference for the great beers of WA, OR, and parts of CA).

There have been a lot of pushes to make it legal to sell full-strength beer in convenience stores, but the liquor stores say it would hurt their business too much, and each time legislation is brought up (or even mentioned) it's quickly shot down.

It was really nice though being able to go to Fred Meyer and buy groceries and a beer or twenty.

KiltedCorpse said:

Hey philrose, do you have the name of a few stores I can find DFH 120 in and around Seattle?

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Not to hijack the thread, but Malt&vine in Redmond has it, and you probably can get it at bottleworks in Seattle too. M&V has around 1000 different kinds of beers, and also has a constantly rotating selection of 12 or so beers on tap.

Here in CO, 3.2% beer can be sold at grocery and convenience stores, but no wine. Liquor stores are not state-owned, and are in abundance, selling full-strength beer, wine, and liquor.

Until the last few years, liquor stores were required to close on Sundays, but groceries and convenience stores could sell 3.2% beer on Sundays.

Recently, the state allowed liquor stores to sell on Sundays also. The groceries and conv. stores are now pushing a measure allowing them to sell full-strength beer as well.

Note, however, that there is one grocery store (a Safeway) near my in-laws that managed to obtain a liquor license, so it also sells full-strength beer, wine, and liquor. I don't know all the details of the particular loophole the store was able to use to obtain the liquor license.

jds said:

Note, however, that there is one grocery store (a Safeway) near my in-laws that managed to obtain a liquor license, so it also sells full-strength beer, wine, and liquor. I don't know all the details of the particular loophole the store was able to use to obtain the liquor license.

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I'm not totally sure, but I think the loophole is that 1 branch of a chain may sell full strength alcohol. I've heard that there is a Supertarget in Greeley that also sells Beer, Wine, and Liquor, but it's Greeley, and i'm scared to go there.

Anyone here from Utah? They have the most back asswards liquor laws I've ever seen.

steinsato said:

Anyone here from Utah? They have the most back asswards liquor laws I've ever seen.

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Very true.

UT only has 2.7mil people, and 60.4% of those people are Mormon. Mormons don't consume alcohol, so that only leaves about 1mil people that do in the whole state. Couple that with the fact that the majority of politicians in UT are Mormon and don't drink, but are making the rules for those that do, it will be a cold day in hell when those laws change.

Now home brewing did become legal in 2009 in UT, it probably has not had enough time to catch on. Probably no LHBS's in the state yet. Sounds like a decent business venture.

Moab, UT has atleast 2 microwbreweries in town but that is kind of a border town and has tons of tourists going through it for the National Parks, mountain biking, off roading, white water rafting etc. I'm sure its the tourists keeping those businesses alive. I imagine the government there doesn't make it easy to start a brewery.

KiltedCorpse said:

I've been searching the WA Liquor Control Board and can't seem to find a maximum ABV for beer. "Malt Beverage" is a maximum of 8% ABW and anything above that is considered "Strong Beer".

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I poked around leg.wa.gov and couldn't find a max anywhere. It's probably codified in some obscure WAC that you're not going to find unless somebody tells you where it's at.

IIRC the owner of the local contract liquor store saying 13% was the strongest beer he could legally sell.

KCMOHophead said:

Missouri sales liquor pretty much anywhere. We even have areas in KC that you can have an open beer outside in public (Power and Light and sometimes in Westport) On the other side of state line road in Kansas, they are a 3.2 state. As you might guess, we make some money off those poor Kansans!

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What I don't get is why, in Kansas City, are the LHB shops on the kansas side? The worst part about brew day for me is having to drive all the way to Bacchus and Barleycorn. I do love the store, just wish there was something closer.

On another note, Missouri does have some awesome liquor laws (thank you Anheuser-Busch!). In fact, it's totally legal for passengers to drink on all roads except for a few municipalities around the state. 3.2 beer? What the hell is that? It wasn't until I came home with a 12-pack of Bully Porter from the Hen House in OP that I discovered 3.2 beer even existed. You can imagine my disappointment.

Arkansas has some pretty screwy laws. Some counties are dry, with no alcohol sold at all. You can usually spot these by the large liquor store, seemingly in the middle of nowhere on the interstate, strategically located just across the county line. I live in a town that is dry inside a county that is wet. I can drive a mile down the road and buy at a liquor store, but can't "legally" drink it on my front porch. It's a law not strictly enforced, but there none the less.

Selection here is sad. As I understand it, distributors have to go through the state for approval for a new beer they want to sell to liquor stores and the red tape and fees are pretty brutal. It's not worth it to them to try to sell niche beers. I can get exactly 2 sour beers in Little Rock, La Follie and Choc Beer's sour (don't remember the name but it was rather bland).

I don't understand local morality laws, when the same vice can be had legally, in some cases literally, across the street.

Ok, I also did some digging around the RCW site, and here's what i found. RCW 66.16.010 states there is a $.42/liter tax on spirits, which are defined under definition 40 as alcohol obtained by distillation...exceeding twenty-four percent of alcohol by volume.

I'm not sure if there is a set ABV that stores can't sell beer at, because i know the DFH 120 minute is definitely up there, and you can buy that at grocery stores (provided you can find it).

steinsato said:

Moab, UT has atleast 2 microwbreweries in town but that is kind of a border town and has tons of tourists going through it for the National Parks, mountain biking, off roading, white water rafting etc. I'm sure its the tourists keeping those businesses alive. I imagine the government there doesn't make it easy to start a brewery.

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Been to Moab with my Jeep club. Great place! This was about 5 years ago and I was drinking more "spirits", I didn't pay attention to the beer that much, but I know people were complaining about the 3.2% stuff. I don't know if those breweries are 3.2% as well, or maybe they get a special circumstance?

BenDover said:

I poked around leg.wa.gov and couldn't find a max anywhere. It's probably codified in some obscure WAC that you're not going to find unless somebody tells you where it's at.

IIRC the owner of the local contract liquor store saying 13% was the strongest beer he could legally sell.

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Ya, seems to be an illusive number. We've found DFH 120min at 18%, so it's at least that, but no Utopias at 27%. Either it's illegal, or just not distributed.

iahebert said:

Ok, I also did some digging around the RCW site, and here's what i found. RCW 66.16.010 states there is a $.42/liter tax on spirits, which are defined under definition 40 as alcohol obtained by distillation...exceeding twenty-four percent of alcohol by volume.

I'm not sure if there is a set ABV that stores can't sell beer at, because i know the DFH 120 minute is definitely up there, and you can buy that at grocery stores (provided you can find it).

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The $.42/liter "surcharge" was removed in 2007, it was probably to pay for a project that finished.

As of August 1st 2009, our current Liquor Tax is 51.9% . Up from 39.2%. Way expensive to drink "spirits" here.

Even though liquor is expensive here, I just have to feel lucky we can get our beer unregulated (for the most part). I feel sorry for the states that have crappy laws. I just don't get it. I can get just as drunk on 3.2% beer as I can on 18% beer, it's just going to take me more of it.

KiltedCorpse said:

Been to Moab with my Jeep club.

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Another Jeeper:rockin::rockin:

I am new to South Dakota and when I asked others about this they did not have the faintest idea what I was talking about. Maybe the laws have changed and I am not aware of it. I grew up in California and it was known as a 3.2 beer state. California did have what I would call beer, using the term 'beer' loosely, but if it the ABV was >3.2 then it had to be sold as a malt liquor or a lager. Years ago when I was in Minnesota my relatives said that if you go to a state liquor store look for the label 'strong' stamped in canned beer for beer that is above that level. I should mention that I am speaking of the ABV percentage. I understand that Idaho sells 'strong' beer. I was in Colorado and they had strong beer. One explanation I got was that states in which the drinking age was 18, to avoid losing federal money for street or highway support had to sell 3.2 beer to anyone older than 18 but under 21 years of age. The 3.2 beer could be purchased in grocery stores and the like but strong beer had to be bought in state liquor stores. When I look on the web I don't seem to be asking the right question or things have changed since I was younger. The term 'Near Beer' was used on the web as another name for 3.2 beer and while it may be similar in California when I was growing up it was not considered beer at all. It simply tasted like beer and was sold to minors that wanted to act like they were grown up. Recently, well within the last couple of years I heard something on the radio about how the brewery's wanted to stop making 3.2 beer but there was some resistance to it. Can anyone shed some light on this subject for me?

Man, so much has happened since 2010...
WA state is no longer selling liquor from state run liquor stores anymore for one.
Just curious, what made you dig up this old thread?

I live in Utah and beer can be sold in stores as long as it's not over 4.0 ABV. All wine and liquor has to be bought at state liquor stores. They close at 7 pm, and only a few are open past that until ten pm. I just went to a restaurant today and ordered a beer. Could not have the beer until I ordered food and the food had come out. It's ridiculous!

Ummm Utah= ridiculous.

Gotta have that brew while i wait for my order!!!

In PA all the liquor/wine and beer are sold in separate stores. So if you're having a cookout/party/get together (*delete as appropriate), it's off to get the groceries for the meat, hit the liquor store for some wine etc, then hit the beer distributor before you head home!

ScotBrew said:

In PA all the liquor/wine and beer are sold in separate stores. So if you're having a cookout/party/get together (*delete as appropriate), it's off to get the groceries for the meat, hit the liquor store for some wine etc, then hit the beer distributor before you head home!

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I can't believe this still goes on. I am starting to see a little progress here with Wageman's, and Giant food stores starting to sell beer in one of their stores each. I also like the BMC is a very minor section of the selection At each store. I know Sheetz gas/convince stores are starting to sell beer here in Pa. It's a step in the right direction, but it is baby steps. I recently noticed that Sheetz has been adding some inside seating for their food sales, and their recent commercials brag how they are not recognized as a restaurant but they sale prepared food subs/sandwiches and some locations pizza.
There has been talk here in privatizing the state run liquor stores, but it's always a battle, ad the beer distributors are fighting tooth and nail to stop the sales in the stores which they claim will make then a thing of the past like a video store. But at the same time at the beer distributors you can ONLY buy a case, no single bottles of any size.

Another Utahn here. This state has some pretty humorous laws. My husband just graduated, so were planning to get out ASAP.
The restaurant laws are very silly. I'm almost surprised they even sell wine in restaurants. You cannot buy ANY alcohol at a general/grocery store above 3.2%. So, no. They don't sell wine there. You can only purchase wine from the state liquor store. Luckily I live about 5 minutes away from a liquor store, so my husband and I usually just make a weekly run. Snag some real beer, wine, etc.
It's absurd, obviously, but you do what you need to do. Thank Buhjebus I can homebrew.

GioGomez2010 said:

Could not have the beer until I ordered food and the food had come out.

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That's just the restaurant misinterpreting the rules. I get a beer before my food arrives all the time.

Alcohol beverage service in a licensed restaurant requires that you order food with your drink, that your beverage be delivered to your table or counter by your server, and that you consume your drink at or near the table or counter.

Alcohol beverage service in a club does not require that you order food. Full bar service and table service are both available. Persons under the age of 21 are not allowed in the lounge or bar area of a club.

Beer service in "beer only" establishments does not require that you order food. Note, however, that persons under the age of 21 years may not be on the premises of certain "beer only" establishments such as taverns, beer bars, nightclubs, or cabarets.

MollyHatchet said:

I can't believe this still goes on. I am starting to see a little progress here with Wageman's, and Giant food stores starting to sell beer in one of their stores each. I also like the BMC is a very minor section of the selection. I know Sheetz gas/convince stores are starting to sell beer here in Pa. It's a step in the right direction, but it is baby steps. I recently noticed that Sheetz has been adding some inside seating for their food sales, and their recent commercials brag how they are not recognized as a restaurant but they sale prepared food subs/sandwiches and some locations pizza.
There has been talk here in privatizing the state run liquor stores, but it's always a battle, ad the beer distributors are fighting tooth and nail to stop the sales in the stores which they claim will make then a thing of the past like a video store. But at the same time at the beer distributors you can ONLY buy a case, no single bottles of any size.

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Coming from Scotland I couldn't believe these crazy rules when my other half told me about them. I was like WHAT?! I was so used to picking up a few beers/couple bottles of wine with groceries without thinking twice. Now I've kinda gotten used to the whole separate store here so it's almost the 'norm'.

And I love Wegman's! Not only can you get 4 packs of Guinness draft but I can get my Irn Bru Scottish Soda from there too! $2 a bottle is mad but it's worth it!