Belgian Golden recipe help

I would appreciate some discussion on what I should put into a Belgian Golden (as strong as possible) Ale. I would like to use only what I have on hand other than a trip to the grocery store for little things like orange zest, coriander, etc.
I can do a mini-mini mash with 2 pounds of grains
I can make a yeast starter

Here is a list of what I have in stock:
7 lbs pale LMS
2.5 lbs wheat DME
1 lb pilsner DME
2 lbs light Belgian candy
2 lbs corn sugar
1 lb Belgian pale malt
1 lb Belgian Aromatic malt
1 lb crystal 40
.5 lb chocolate malt
.5 lb roasted barly

2 oz hallertau
2 oz saaz
1 oz kent goldings
1 oz northern brewer

1 vial WLP570 Belgian Golden Ale yeast

Any help would be greatly apprciated!

Well, I'd say you could pass on the chocolate & roasted for a golden right? Depends on how big a fan of specialty grains you are & the partial mash but, besides the belgian pale, I'd think a half each of aromatic & crystal would be plenty. I don't think they're all that hoppy as a rule either so prbably something like te oz of Northern for the full boil, an oz of hallertau @ 45 of an hour boil for flavor & last minute saaz would do. In fact that may be a bit heavy, depending. I'm looking at recipies that put Westmalle at 26 IBU & Duvel at 31. I'd go ahead & use all the fermentables. Maybe they wouldn't usually have so much wheat but I'd use it.Very similar to one I brewed over the weekend actually. One recipe I'm useing for a guide is supposed to be a Duvel clone & it reserves a lb of the corn sugar for the secondary along with a touch of fruit, in this case pear.

Here's what I got: 9.3 lb gold lme, 1lb wheat dme, 1 lb candi sugar, 2.33 lb corn sugar, 1/2 lb vienna, 1/2 lb 10d crystal, 1/2 lb aromatic, 1 oz each: Challenger, Liberty & Saaz hops & Wyeast 1388 Belgian strong. slainte!

Duvel is something like 80% pils and 20% light sugar--nothing else. No specialty malts (or spices) are needed. They will give it too high of FG. I don't know what your making but it is not a BGS. Just use all of your extract, mash your Belgian pale malt and add 20% sugar. Table sugar is fine. I go a little overboard on the hop flavor but that's just me. Love that saaz at 20 min.

The grist for a Belgian Golden Strong is not a place for too complexity; you really want the yeast character to shine through.

Vinnie Cilurzo's recipe for a BGSA is slightly more complex than Duvel's Pils/sucrose mix, adding in a small proportion of wheat and Munich.

I'd aim for simplicity in the hopping, using something slightly earthy like Styrian Goldings or a hop of Noble lineage to get you to 30ish IBUs.

'strue! Not at all ar about beer style just so I like it. By that definition poor kevin would be left with a little malt & a bunch of sugar to make his beer but I think he'll do all right & get close enough to what he has in mind to forget the rest after a few goblets. Keeping in mind he's trying to work with what he has on hand. Nothing wrong with that.

Personally, I'd start by reading the style guidelines to get an idea of the traditional flavors, aromas and ingredients in a Belgian Golden Strong Ale:

BJCP 2008 Style Guidelines - Category 18

I agree with Conroe. A Belgian Golden Strong is usually all Pilsner malt and sugar (cane sugar, beet sugar or corn sugar). Ideally, you would want Pilsner LME or extra light DME to keep the color as light as possible. In this case though, I think you could use all 7 lbs of the pale LME and then add 2 or 2.5 lbs of plain table sugar. That would get you to 1.067 (2 lbs sugar) or 1.072 (2.5 lbs sugar). The sugar will help dry it out, which is really important in a Belgian Golden Strong.

For hops, I'd go with 1.5 oz of your Hallertau at 60 minutes and the remaining .5 oz at 5 minutes to give a little bit of aroma and flavor. You don't want a lot of hop flavor in a Belgian Golden Strong if you're going for something that's close to the guidelines.

Make sure to make a big starter for your yeast. You might need to buy some DME to do it, but one vial won't get the beer where you need it to finish. Mr Malty's yeast pitching calculator will give you a good idea of how large a starter you will need.

Mr Malty Pitching Rate Calculator

I've done something similar, but all-grain, and it was definitely a hit.

I just posted everything that I have at my house. Clearly I wont be using the chocolate or roasted stuff. Probably should not have listed those....

If you are going to use a large percentage of extract in a golden, then you are going to have trouble getting the final gravity down past 1.020 or so. To get it down to the proper 1.006 range for the style, you need to get some base malt (prob pilsner or 6-row) and do the following in a partial mash:

- re-mash your extract with some base malt (3-4 lbs)
- add some beano to the mash (4-5 crushed tablets)
- mash at 148F for 90 min

That will make a very fermentable mash. Otherwise, your extract Golden will be too sweet.

Jamil has a fantastic show on the BSG style (brewing network). Look that up if you get a chance.

cdburg said:

I agree with Conroe. A Belgian Golden Strong is usually all Pilsner malt and sugar (cane sugar, beet sugar or corn sugar). .

Click to expand...

Stay away from the candi sugar? I don't know, I like using it but it'll keep for another bach I suppose . I think you're right about the hops, no doubt the Hallertau would do the trick although I know when push came to shove the saaz would end up in the finish. I'm just that way about saaz. I also like the wheat malt & I think you're right about the starter. I don't see any harm in using some of the wheat dme to make a starter at the very least. No trips to the store, we're brewing with what we have, right?

ghpeel said:

To get it down to the proper 1.006 range for the style,

Click to expand...

1.008 - 1.018, guidlines, guidlines!

Kidding! Just kidding. I'm a kidder.

Gotta go pour one, carry on.

Wow guys! I really appreciate the discussion here! Thanks to all!

THart: LHBS is a 45 miles round trip. I found myself in that area today and just bought a few things to add to what I already had hoping to be able to come up with something. I could go back if there is something this brew cannot live without. I would like to use the candi, and forgetting after a few goblets is what its all about for me!

ghpeel: I havent had problems getting extract brews down to 1.012 before. NO beano! Wont use it. Great idea on the Jamil show though, I'll take a look for an appropriate show. I've been crunching my way through the Session archives, great stuff. I have learned so much from those guys!

cdburg: I already have MrMalty bookmarked! I always use the pitching calculator. Great tool!

So,
5.5 gallons
Use all the LME
Use a pound of pilsner and wheat DME
Mini-mini mash the 1 pound Belgian pale. (with some of the LME?)
2 pounds candi (or corn?)

That gets OG around 1.080

Color goes darker than style but a again a couple of goblets and I will forget about that.

1.5 oz Hallertau @ 60
0.5 oz Hallertau @ 30
0.5 oz Saaz @ 30 <- for THart

That gets IBU around 30

2 cups of the wheat DME for a starter

Sounding OK?

Please critique.

KevinP said:

Wow guys! I really appreciate the discussion here! Thanks to all!

THart: LHBS is a 45 miles round trip. I found myself in that area today and just bought a few things to add to what I already had hoping to be able to come up with something. I could go back if there is something this brew cannot live without. I would like to use the candi, and forgetting after a few goblets is what its all about for me!

ghpeel: I havent had problems getting extract brews down to 1.012 before. NO beano! Wont use it. Great idea on the Jamil show though, I'll take a look for an appropriate show. I've been crunching my way through the Session archives, great stuff. I have learned so much from those guys!

cdburg: I already have MrMalty bookmarked! I always use the pitching calculator. Great tool!

So,
5.5 gallons
Use all the LME
Use a pound of pilsner and wheat DME
Mini-mini mash the 1 pound Belgian pale. (with some of the LME?)
2 pounds candi (or corn?)

That gets OG around 1.080

Color goes darker than style but a again a couple of goblets and I will forget about that.

1.5 oz Hallertau @ 60
0.5 oz Hallertau @ 30
0.5 oz Saaz @ 30 <- for THart

That gets IBU around 30

2 cups of the wheat DME for a starter

Sounding OK?

Please critique.

Click to expand...

You're going to need much more than 2 cups of DME for the starter. With a beer that big, you're going to need to step a single vial up multiple times, or do a smaller starter with multiple vials...

For the recipe, it all depends what you're looking for. 1 oz of hops at 30 minutes is going to give it quite a bit of hops flavor, probably more than the guidelines. If I were looking for some flavor, I'd go with .5 oz at 20 minutes and .5 oz at 5 minutes. That will probably still be a bit more hops flavor than "style" (if you care), but it will split the hops between flavor and aroma additions. One 30 minute addition won't give you too much in the way of hop aroma. Most, if no all of it, will boil off.

I would go with the table sugar over the candi. Save the candi for a style where it would be more appropriate. Use the cheaper table sugar for this one. I'm also not sure that the 1 lb mini mash is really going to do much for you. It seems like more trouble than it's worth to me. I'd drop it, even if you lose a tiny bit on the OG. Go with the LME, the DME and the sugar.

Well cdburg you are correct.... MrMalty points to a 5 liter starter with one vial of yeast. I do not have the ability to produce a 5 liter starter. 2 tops.

Mmmm North Coast Pranqster is is this style. I would love to get something like that! :rockin:
They advertise 7.6% ABV and 20 IBU...

So I scale down to a not so strong Belgian Golden.
Ditch the sugar (I may not be able to resist using some candi.....) and the mash. (never done a brew without at least steeping grains and this makes me nervous)

7lb pale LME
1lb pilsner DME
1lb wheat DME

1 oz Hallertau @ 60
0.5 oz saaz @ 60

OG 1.062
IBU 21

WLP570 Stepped up to a 2 liter starter

Sounds pretty simple albeit MUCH different than the original run.

I think I'll go to the store now and pick up some Pranqster....

Thoughts?

As requested, thoughts:

Use sugar, at least 10% of the grist. You will not achieve the dry finish necessary with extracts. It simply isn't possible. It's not a function of the amount of yeast pitched (more on this in a bit), it's a function of what goes into the maltster's mash tun. A pound of cane sugar (10% of the grist in 5.5 gallons) will get you right round 1.070 and help to dry out the finish.

You need not pitch 2 or 5 liters of foamy, active starter. You can pitch slurry. Brew your starter ahead of time (duh) but give yourself a couple extra days. When you've stepped it up as large as you can, crash-chill it. That'll settle the yeast into a slurry. When it comes time to pitch, decant all but a little of the spent starter 'beer' and pitch slurry according to Mr Malty. No volume issues there! I use growlers for that purpose. If I need a crapton of yeast, I get two growlers going.

Don't be nervous about making a beer without steeping anything. You can get everything you need from the extract and sugar, so steeping would be pointless. It'll still be good beer!

Cheers,

Bob

Adding the sugar after high kraeusen might help keep the yeast going better.

KevinP said:

Well cdburg you are correct.... MrMalty points to a 5 liter starter with one vial of yeast. I do not have the ability to produce a 5 liter starter. 2 tops.

Mmmm North Coast Pranqster is is this style. I would love to get something like that! :rockin:
They advertise 7.6% ABV and 20 IBU...

So I scale down to a not so strong Belgian Golden.
Ditch the sugar (I may not be able to resist using some candi.....) and the mash. (never done a brew without at least steeping grains and this makes me nervous)

7lb pale LME
1lb pilsner DME
1lb wheat DME

1 oz Hallertau @ 60
0.5 oz saaz @ 60

OG 1.062
IBU 21

WLP570 Stepped up to a 2 liter starter

Sounds pretty simple albeit MUCH different than the original run.

I think I'll go to the store now and pick up some Pranqster....

Thoughts?

Click to expand...

If I were you, I'd take out all of some of the wheat DME and replace it with a pound or two of table sugar. You can then use the DME for a larger starter. You're going to need the at least some sugar in it to help dry it out. It's very appropriate for Belgian beers and needed, especially with most extract, to get the beer as dry as needed.

It's important that the starter is the proper size too. You don't want the beer to get stuck at 1.020 or so. The sugar will help, but you need a lot of healthy yeast to get it done too.

7 lb pale LME 70%
1 lb pilsner DME 10%
2 lb table sugar 20% (for sure not the Belgian candy????)
1 0z hallertau @60
1 Oz Saaz @60

WLP570 with as big a starter as I can make (I do use a growler. NQ3X, you have used two?? I guess I never considered using two.... I have several....hmmmm)

OG 1.070
IBU 26

I am starting my starter this afternoon for a Saturday brew day so I have a few days to nail down a consensus on ingredients.

Could it be this simple?

Use the clear candisuiker if you've already got it. If you don't, there's no reason on earth why you'd spend that kind of dosh, as it adds precisely nothing in terms of character. Use plain old table sugar.

Yeah, I've used two growlers when needed. One gallon glass juice jugs also work nicely.

Bob

P.S. Yes, it is that simple. The best beers usually are.

THart said:

... 1.008 - 1.018, guidlines ...

Click to expand...

Oops! That's what I get for quoting from memory. But I do have to say that the Golden's that I enjoy do feel a lot dryer than 1.018, but maybe there's some other reason for that. Mine (in secondary right now) is at a bone dry 1.006 so maybe I was subconsciously wanting it to be right on style!

Also, I concur with the tips on getting a starter built up. That's very crucial. I did a 2-step start for mine, in a gallon jug, and it nearly blew my beer right out of the carboy on the 3-4th days.

Well the starter is started!

NQ3X: I've got the candi so I'm going to use it. Adds nothing/same effect as table sugar? Should this stuff be called candi sucker instead of candi sugar? Whatever, it will sure sound fancy to my friends when I tell them whats in it.

Brewing Saturday. Keep em crossed for my first Belgian

Sorry; I lapsed into being fancy. Yeah, there's no real difference in beer terms between table sugar and clear candi-sugar other than price and PITA level (those chunks of candi-sugar can be a real pain to dissolve).

Good luck!

Bob

So, I had never had Duvel before today. With Duvel and Pranqster in the same BJCP category it makes me wonder how is that even possible? Duvel and Pranqster are two COMPLETELY different beers. Are all of the BJCP categories so varied?

Now, as I draw near the end of my second 750ml Duvel, I find myself REALLY enjoying this beer! Its very dry, almost leaves me thirsty as it finishes but then I salivate a little and take another drink, very dangerous stuff!

However, my first impression of this was not as favorable as my first impression of Pranqster.

Forgive me if I am rambling, I have been drinking....

I suspect I will be happy no matter how this brew turns out. I wish I could drive to the store for more Duvel..... I would like to steer my brew more towards the North Coast Pranqster.

That said, I ask for more input.

I don't care.

A few goblets later

and I don't care

Im gonna brew something on saturday

Im going to use that WLP570. I have it in a starter for crying out loud... Im using it!

You all saw the list of what I have on hand, what should I do here?

now the second 750 of Duvel is gone..... should I go pee in the starter???

Screw the round trip, I can go get something else from my LHBS.

tomorrow I can go....

Dam thiat Duvel was good...

Pranqster is not that dry. How do two such different beers end up in the same BJCP style? DO THESE PEOPLE EVEN KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING?!?!?!?

So I like beer.

Does anyone around here like beer?

Gosh I like beer.

I wish the beer babe thread was still available to all members....

KevinP said:

So, I had never had Duvel before today. With Duvel and Pranqster in the same BJCP category it makes me wonder how is that even possible? Duvel and Pranqster are two COMPLETELY different beers. Are all of the BJCP categories so varied?

Click to expand...

IMHO, it is a mistake for the BJCP to have separate categories for BSG and Tripel.

If you read the prose of the BSG category, it says "clone Duvel"

If you read the prose of the Tripel category it says "clone Westmalle"

If you read the numbers, Duvel is out of style for either and Westmalle works in either.

Prose. Great word! fits what I am thinking about BJCP right about now:
language which evinces little imagination or
animation; dull and commonplace discourse.
[1913 Webster]
They need to get their act together!

I havent had Westmalle
I wish I could go get some right now!