Abandoned Keg

BrewSwag 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
I

Iordz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
955
Reaction score
7
Location
Phoenix, AZ
I was brewing at my friend's house yesterday, when I noticed an inconspicuous Anheuser-Bush keg, sitting in a tub, empty. Apparently, he had a party last week and somebody had brought the keg (he actually doesn’t drink). When I asked him why they hadn't returned it, he said that nobody remembered who brought it and that they don't know what to do with it.
I would like to do what's right, return the keg, but I'm not sure how to go about the situation either. If I don't do anything, I know it will just sit there and gather dust.
So, what would you do in my situation? :confused:
 
I think he was leaning towards meaning that someone, (beer purchaser), was only out their $10.

I would happily make that my $10, if the rightful deposit payer cannot be found.

A less scrupulous individual would cut that thing, drill for some plumbing, and start brewing. If that describes you, we don't want to know. Some folks might get testy.
 
IB4TL

Try to find who brought it. If you can't, then there's no way to return it. In most cases a distributor won't accept it if you weren't the one who rented it (and can prove it with a receipt). If you can't find who brought the keg, it's keggle time, baby!
 
You could if you wanna be an honest and upright citizen, talk to your neighborhood beer store, and explain the situation and maybe they'd stick it in the back room until the AB delivery guy show up and give it to them...Heck if they deal in kegs, you could take it in and maybe get a deposit back on it...
 
People may want to take a look at the ethical issues as discussed in the wiki.

Personally, I think you have to make a legitimate, good-faith effort to return it. *Someone* knows who brought it; this isn't the same as finding a couple kegs in the basement of a house you just bought.
 
I don't have a problem with deposit money, I want to return it because I feel it is the right thing to do. I just don't want the original buyer of the keg to come looking for it, asking me for money! I'm going to ask around a bit, see if I can track him down, if I can't I will take it to a liquor store.
 
the_bird said:
People may want to take a look at the ethical issues as discussed in the wiki.

Personally, I think you have to make a legitimate, good-faith effort to return it. *Someone* knows who brought it; this isn't the same as finding a couple kegs in the basement of a house you just bought.
Click to expand...




I agree completely.

But, if after making that effort, it is still unclaimed, well, it's not doing anyone any good gathering dust.
 
It's good to see that we're reaching some sort of consensus on these threads. If not agreeing completely, at least we're able to throw out the diverging viewpoints without getting too overheated about it. :knock on wood:

Now let me just say though... There is such a thing as abandoned property. If you saw a bicycle sitting in an open field and you made a good-faith effort to find the owner and were unable to do so, then it belongs to you. But, if the keg is stamped with A-B on it, then you know who the actual owner is.

My opinion is that, since you know who the owner is (Anheuser-Busch), you do need to alert the owner as to your possession and offer to let them pick it up. You are under no obligation, however, to go out of your way to return it to anybody. Just like if the owner of the bicycle was 1,000 miles away and insisted you ship it to him, you would be well within your rights to say no... or require him to pay the shipping charges. If, on the other hand, you contacted the owner and he said that he is not going to pick it up, or if he said he'd be over to get it, but never came, then it may legally be considered abandoned property (check your state's law for specifics on this- it's probably a common law issue, given that the issue of abandoned property goes back to prehistoric times and is likely dependent on many little nuances).

So, instead of contacting the liquor store, I would call Anheuser Busch. Advise them that you have their keg. Give them your address, and tell them to come pick it up. If nobody stops by to get it, then I would consider it abandoned.
 
Sir Humpsalot said:
It's good to see that we're reaching some sort of consensus on these threads. If not agreeing completely, at least we're able to throw out the diverging viewpoints without getting too overheated about it. :knock on wood:

Now let me just say though... There is such a thing as abandoned property. If you saw a bicycle sitting in an open field and you made a good-faith effort to find the owner and were unable to do so, then it belongs to you. But, if the keg is stamped with A-B on it, then you know who the actual owner is.

My opinion is that, since you know who the owner is (Anheuser-Busch), you do need to alert the owner as to your possession and offer to let them pick it up. You are under no obligation, however, to go out of your way to return it to anybody. Just like if the owner of the bicycle was 1,000 miles away and insisted you ship it to him, you would be well within your rights to say no... or require him to pay the shipping charges. If, on the other hand, you contacted the owner and he said that he is not going to pick it up, or if he said he'd be over to get it, but never came, then it may legally be considered abandoned property (check your state's law for specifics on this- it's probably a common law issue, given that the issue of abandoned property goes back to prehistoric times and is likely dependent on many little nuances).

So, instead of contacting the liquor store, I would call Anheuser Busch. Advise them that you have their keg. Give them your address, and tell them to come pick it up. If nobody stops by to get it, then I would consider it abandoned.
Click to expand...

+1 Best option I reckon.. unless the liquor store that it was purchased from has to pay a deposit to the brewery when they received it... does anyone know ?
 
PeteOz77 said:
+1 Best option I reckon.. unless the liquor store that it was purchased from has to pay a deposit to the brewery when they received it... does anyone know ?
Click to expand...

Can't find the article but there was one recently that discussed the fact that the cost of stainless was causing people to steal kegs. In it it was indicated that the store eats the cost of lost kegs.

However, that could be bad reporting. I have never worked in retail booze so I don't know.
 
Our keg deposits are up to $75 now because of tweekers stealing the kegs for the steel. I think there really SHOULD be a high deposit on kegs; it helps people stay honest and/or not lazy.
 
Am I the only one who finds it odd that no one knows who brought the keg to the party? I've gotten pretty ripped before but there is no way I would forget a detail like that. I bet with some investigation you can find out who brought the keg.
 
RichBrewer said:
Am I the only one who finds it odd that no one knows who brought the keg to the party? I've gotten pretty ripped before but there is no way I would forget a detail like that. I bet with some investigation you can find out who brought the keg.
Click to expand...
That was exactly what I thought! I asked all the room mates and they don't know, which is ridiculous! If I had been there I would remember. I know some of the other people that were there, so I plan to ask them. The problem is my friend is 20miles away and I don't go there too often, so it will have to wait.
 
Sir Humpsalot said:
It's good to see that we're reaching some sort of consensus on these threads. If not agreeing completely, at least we're able to throw out the diverging viewpoints without getting too overheated about it. :knock on wood:

Now let me just say though... There is such a thing as abandoned property. If you saw a bicycle sitting in an open field and you made a good-faith effort to find the owner and were unable to do so, then it belongs to you. But, if the keg is stamped with A-B on it, then you know who the actual owner is.

My opinion is that, since you know who the owner is (Anheuser-Busch), you do need to alert the owner as to your possession and offer to let them pick it up. You are under no obligation, however, to go out of your way to return it to anybody. Just like if the owner of the bicycle was 1,000 miles away and insisted you ship it to him, you would be well within your rights to say no... or require him to pay the shipping charges. If, on the other hand, you contacted the owner and he said that he is not going to pick it up, or if he said he'd be over to get it, but never came, then it may legally be considered abandoned property (check your state's law for specifics on this- it's probably a common law issue, given that the issue of abandoned property goes back to prehistoric times and is likely dependent on many little nuances).

So, instead of contacting the liquor store, I would call Anheuser Busch. Advise them that you have their keg. Give them your address, and tell them to come pick it up. If nobody stops by to get it, then I would consider it abandoned.
Click to expand...

I agree, but you're not going to call AB and say "I have a keg, come pick it up". And it's also true that most liquor stores won't take a keg without a receipt. I think you should ask around the people who were at the party if anyone knows who brought the keg. I think at that point, you've done due diligence to try to find out the owner.
 
I just got the new issue of "Beer" magazine and there is a article stating the beer industry spends over $50,000,000 each year to replace 300,000 lost or stolen kegs. I guess there are adding a "Clarity-RTI" software on the kegs now.
 
In many states there will be a sticker on the keg telling were the keg was bought , who purchased it and were it is to be consumed.
 
Cregar said:
I just got the new issue of "Beer" magazine and there is a article stating the beer industry spends over $50,000,000 each year to replace 300,000 lost or stolen kegs...
Click to expand...

That means their losses amount to $167 per keg. Let's assume for a moment that the beer industry is telling the truth and is giving us numbers based on accounting principles, rather than some liberal arts drop-out's back-of-the-napkin calculation. What does that tell us?

Well, given that the average keg is halfway through its usable life, that means that the purchase price of the keg, minus the scrap value, divided in half (for half of its usable life) equals $167.

What's a keg weigh? 30 pounds? At a dollar a pound, that means the scrap value of the keg is $30.

$167 times 2 plus $30.

So the beer industry is claiming that they are paying about $364 for each new keg they buy?

I don't believe it. I don't believe that 30 new kegs cost the same as a basic american economy car. And that doesn't even account for the cost of transporting, cleaning and inspecting each keg that gets returned- all costs that the beer companies don't have to pony up for a stolen keg. Now, that isn't to say that I'm defending theft of kegs- not at all! I'm just pointing out that that statistic smells an awful lot like baloney...

I bet $167 is actually closer to the price of a new keg. Minus the scrap value of $30 is $137. Divided in half for depreciation is $68. Times 300,000. The actual figure is probably closer to 20.4 million in losses. That's no small chunk of change there, but there's still no reason to lie about it.
 
olllllo said:
Isn't that what you just did?
Click to expand...

I'm not a liberal arts drop out though. ;)

I actually used accounting principles, you know, like depreciation, core value, rather than just multiplying the cost of a new unit by the number of units lost without regard to the condition of the units.

I mean, if somebody crashed into your 73 Dodge, you wouldn't honestly expect his insurance to buy you a 2008, would you?

Just a pet peeve of mine... when people over-simplify dollar figure calculations to the point of absurdity. To me it's like... Well, you crashed into my dodge.. and this here is a 2008 Dodge... so I guess this is what you owe me. :rolleyes:
 
Sir Humpsalot said:
I'm not a liberal arts drop out though. ;)

I actually used accounting principles, you know, like depreciation, core value, rather than just multiplying the cost of a new unit by the number of units lost without regard to the condition of the units.

I mean, if somebody crashed into your 73 Dodge, you wouldn't honestly expect his insurance to buy you a 2008, would you?

Just a pet peeve of mine... when people over-simplify dollar figure calculations to the point of absurdity. To me it's like... Well, you crashed into my dodge.. and this here is a 2008 Dodge... so I guess this is what you owe me. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...


If my insurance covers replacement value... c.f. Homeowners... then yes.
 
If you care about replacement value, peruse probrewer.com's forums. Small brewers are buying and selling batches of kegs (usually at least several dozen) at a time. Prices seem to be around $100 a pop for used ones. That's the REAL cost, that's your market value of a replacement (used) keg.
 
PeteOz77 said:
unless the liquor store that it was purchased from has to pay a deposit to the brewery when they received it... does anyone know ?
Click to expand...

The liquor stores (at least around here) pay the same deposit as the customer does. But it doesn't go to the brewery it goes to the distributor which credits them back when they come to pick up the kegs. The breweries can charge what ever they want to the distributors for the kegs. You should have heard the stuff the stores had to go through when the deposits went from $10 to $30. It was like the world ended and they need to sell their souls to the devil now.
 
I should mention that I know the OP. If he says that the people who brought the keg of A-B are difficult to find/get ahold of, then you can take it to the bank.
 
Sir Humpsalot said:
I'm not a liberal arts drop out though. ;)

I actually used accounting principles, you know, like depreciation, core value, rather than just multiplying the cost of a new unit by the number of units lost without regard to the condition of the units.

I mean, if somebody crashed into your 73 Dodge, you wouldn't honestly expect his insurance to buy you a 2008, would you?

Just a pet peeve of mine... when people over-simplify dollar figure calculations to the point of absurdity. To me it's like... Well, you crashed into my dodge.. and this here is a 2008 Dodge... so I guess this is what you owe me. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...


While I might not expect the insurance company to buy me a brand new car to replace my POS with a brand new car, I have to replace my car with something and unless there happens to be a supply of used cars for me to buy I'm going to have to fork over the difference for a new car.



The beer manufacturer has to replace the missing keg at NEW cost every time one goes missing. It seems legitimate to me for them to call their loss the replacement cost, even if that's not how it'll work off the books.
 
Sir Humpsalot said:
I mean, if somebody crashed into your 73 Dodge, you wouldn't honestly expect his insurance to buy you a 2008, would you?
Click to expand...

If my 73 Dodge was a Hemi Challenger that was all original, I would expect around $75,000 from his insurance company, not a new $30K Hemi Challenger.

But the point here is

THIS:

The breweries NEED kegs to be able to sell their beer. If they NEED 5,000 (just to pick a number) kegs in circulation to keep up with the demand (half of them full half of them empty, but not back in their hands and ready to use), and 500 of them go missing, it means they CAN'T sell their beer. So then need to buy more kegs.

They don't check Craigslist, or the scrap yard, they go to their manufacturer and say "Some bastards have stolen another 500 kegs.. we have beer that we can't sell... send us another 500 new ones"

SO the REAL cost to the breweries for stolen kegs is the cost of new kegs... It's that simple. They buy new ones to replace the stolen ones, so they can stay in production. I did a bit of googling and the price of a new 16 gallon keg appears to be around $155. I see NO reason why the deposit shouldn't be at least this much. I would put it at $200 just to make up for the hassle of having to order, sanitise, label and serialise the new ones when they arrive.

I bet they would ALL come back if the deposit were $200. And let's face it, the cost of the beer stays the same.. all you have to do is take the fookin thing back and the deposit goes back in your pocket...

Now, if someone leaves the $200 behind and doesn't come back to claim it.. make a keggle out of it... the brewery has enough money from the deposit to replace it.. they aren't going to care...
 
olllllo said:
I should mention that I know the OP. If he says that the people who brought the keg of A-B are difficult to find/get ahold of, then you can take it to the bank.
Click to expand...
Thank you, olllllo, I appreciate your support. I really hope nobody thinks I want to keep it!:mad: I have all the equipment I need. I just saw the keg and wasn't sure what to do so I asked for advise.
 
<paint bullseye>

Who cares what anyone here thinks. Half of us here are probably hypocrits brewing with a "stolen" keg, anyway. :D

</paint bullseye>
 
PeteOz77 said:
I did a bit of googling and the price of a new 16 gallon keg appears to be around $155. I see NO reason why the deposit shouldn't be at least this much. I would put it at $200 just to make up for the hassle of having to order, sanitise, label and serialise the new ones when they arrive.

I bet they would ALL come back if the deposit were $200. And let's face it, the cost of the beer stays the same.. all you have to do is take the fookin thing back and the deposit goes back in your pocket...
Click to expand...

There are some other economics at work here as well. Many people would not be able or willing to put up that much money per keg. I think they would end up loosing too much sales volume at that point. I'm sure that there is a balancing point in there somewhere, maybe it's $30 or maybe it's $150.
 
The distributor should of charge 100 bucks for a deposit. If they didnt, well thats on them. If a keg was left at my house, I would probably wait a week to see if anyone claimed it. If not, well I would be brewing with it the following weekend.

Not sure how it works in PHX, but down here Alliance requires each bar to pay a 100 dollar deposit on each keg. Im not sure why it would be different for a beer store.
 
Liquidicem said:
There are some other economics at work here as well. Many people would not be able or willing to put up that much money per keg. I think they would end up loosing too much sales volume at that point. I'm sure that there is a balancing point in there somewhere, maybe it's $30 or maybe it's $150.
Click to expand...

There's a few places where the breweries don't have an option, deposits are set by the regulators. There's also some who suggest that the big distributors (like AB) would rather see the deposits remain on the low side, reasoning that even if they take a hit on a few stolen kegs, this ends up hurting their microbrew competitors even more. They take a hit that they're big enough to absorb, knowing that those same hits might be enough to knock a small micro or two out of the game. If they're setting their deposits at $30, they know that the little distributor's not going to be able to charge $100.
 

Similar threads

Panderson1
How long does it take for an infection to start (in a cold keg)?
Replies
2
Views
388
GoodTruble
G
VikeMan
Taplist.io Free Version - Not Allowing Tapping a Keg
Replies
3
Views
604
TaplistIO
TaplistIO
slurms
Purge keg with fermentation CO2
Replies
14
Views
940
mac_1103
mac_1103
Roxhambrewshed
What would you do? Keg transfer help.
Replies
12
Views
538
Bassman2003
B
K
Bottle Condition or Keg for Competition?
Replies
3
Views
417
kurds_2408
K
InkBird 300

Latest posts

Back
Top