SS RIMS tube

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Layne

Layne

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I bought the SS RIMS tube from Brewers Hardware
Trying to decide how to mount it on my new rig.
How are you guys mounting this?
 
I used U bolts for mine.....however you mount it, make sure you can take it off easily because you may need to drain it.
 
Layne said:
I bought the SS RIMS tube from Brewers Hardware
Trying to decide how to mount it on my new rig.
How are you guys mounting this?
Click to expand...

Vibration Damping Tubing Clamps from McMaster Carr

3015t32p1s.png


http://www.mcmaster.com/#sound-control-tube-clamps/=a1cdry
 
The triclamps are so cool. I'd like to maybe find a similar mounting solution.
Something with a strap or clamp, or something, to lock it in place for operational, and 'break loose' for cleaning,
 
I have mine mounted horizontally. With the inlet facing down it drains just fine so far.
 
I have mine mounted vertically. One U-bolt through the frame with wing nuts and coupled directly to the pump outlet. It's solid, no vibration. And with Derrin's design, I can remove everything except the bottom half of the tube with the tri-clovers. The only thing that I can't CIP is around the thermocouple at the top, but that comes off with a tri-clover too.


SANY0003.JPG
 
Layne said:
The triclamps are so cool. I'd like to maybe find a similar mounting solution.
Something with a strap or clamp, or something, to lock it in place for operational, and 'break loose' for cleaning,
Click to expand...

See post #3 and use wing bolts for easy disassembly.
 
Yep, read that this morning. That sounds like a good solution.
Thanks guys!
Pics soon.
 
Sawdustguy said:
Why? Isn't that why Derrin has the triclovers on the end, so you can easily remove them and drain the tube?
Click to expand...

Sure...all depends on orientation. My rims is horizontal with a horizontal inlet and very outlet. Because of the pipe contour there may be fluid left. So it depends on the build.
 
ScubaSteve said:
Sure...all depends on orientation. My rims is horizontal with a horizontal inlet and very outlet. Because of the pipe contour there may be fluid left. So it depends on the build.
Click to expand...

Derrins RIMS tube can be taken apart at the ends and in the middle so any fluid left in the RIMS tube can be easily drained from the RIMS tube. The RIMS tube can be cleaned at that point also. If you use the clamps I propose with wing bolts, the tube can be easily removed also.
 
Any ideas how the RIMS tube can be mounted to a TopTier? I have the RIMS tube but I don't know what size the slots are on the TopTier. I am trying to put together a whole new system while my house is being built (currently in an apartment) but until then I don't want to order the stand because I don't have anywhere to put it.

~J
 
Jazong said:
Any ideas how the RIMS tube can be mounted to a TopTier? I have the RIMS tube but I don't know what size the slots are on the TopTier. I am trying to put together a whole new system while my house is being built (currently in an apartment) but until then I don't want to order the stand because I don't have anywhere to put it.

~J
Click to expand...

I've considered a Top Tier and how I would mount a RIMS tube. It depends on your RIMS tube. If you get one that uses Tri-clamps, then I don't think it matters because you can easily take it apart. If you go the SS threaded route you might consider buying a cross to replace one of the tee's. Have the cross on the element lowest end as it's mounted and put a ball valve in there. Open the valve to drain/flush the tube. Then again, if it's full of sanitizer, what's it matter if it's empty or not?

Back to the original question - get some T-slot nuts/bolts from Blichmann or 8020.com. That ought to do it.
 
I have half of a RIMS Tube from Derrin. My buddy bought one, and after finding the heating element we both wanted, realized he only needed half of the tube. I took the other half and ordered the rest of the parts I needed to make it functional from Derrin. Here is the route I was thinking about going.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#strut-channel-clamps/=a270b2

Are the slots on the TopTier the same as the 8020 stuff? Will the strut channel adapters for the push close clamps work with the slots on the TopTier?

BTW here is the element. It has no exposed wires, all stainless, a light to tell you when it is on, and it's three wire so I don't need a grounding nut.

http://www.shopwiki.com/_Columbia+S...,+1500+Watt+without+Dial?o=358450114&s=290689

~J
 
Jazong said:
I have half of a RIMS Tube from Derrin. My buddy bought one, and after finding the heating element we both wanted, realized he only needed half of the tube. I took the other half and ordered the rest of the parts I needed to make it functional from Derrin. Here is the route I was thinking about going.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#strut-channel-clamps/=a270b2

Are the slots on the TopTier the same as the 8020 stuff? Will the strut channel adapters for the push close clamps work with the slots on the TopTier?

BTW here is the element. It has no exposed wires, all stainless, a light to tell you when it is on, and it's three wire so I don't need a grounding nut.

http://www.shopwiki.com/_Columbia+S...,+1500+Watt+without+Dial?o=358450114&s=290689

~J
Click to expand...

Wow, that is $50 more than I paid for my element.
 
My plan is to use a TriClove to NPT and connect it to my plumping manifold which will be attached to the stand. If I disconnet the TriClove, the entire RIMS tube will be removeable.

Thoughts?
 
Wow, that is $50 more than I paid for my element.
Click to expand...

It was worth my time saved plus the sense of security for a dude with no real electrical knowledge, not to mention the light telling you when it is on (very cool) plus the all stainless build. You should see how much I paid for the device that controlls it.

Thanks for the tip on that Heating Element.
Click to expand...

I think Derrin should at least link to these, if not sell them, at his site.

Cheers,

-J
 
Ohio-Ed said:
I wonder if the element in that device is replaceable? It also says it has 1" NPT threads. And as said, pretty slick enclosure.

I like it.
Click to expand...

Thats why I was so surprised. If he doesn't have a flow switch or if he doesn't catch it........one stuck sparge and it's another $50.
 
I bought a metal rod that I bent so that it has a hook on one end, then strapped it to the rims tube. I usually rang it on the mash/tun but it could go anywhere.
 
It doesn't appear to be replaceable. I really don't want to crack open the enclosure right now but I may when I have a garage with tool in it instead of a storage unit. I am not worried about any dry fire issues. The RIMS tube will be mounted after and above the pump right before the wort re-enters the MLT, and positioned with the entry directly below the exit (mounted vertically) . If my mash gets stuck the element will never be dry. Even if somehow the tube were to run dry the probe is mounted 4" away from the element so the controller would shut it off once the inside of the tube reached the set temp and that will never be above 168F.

Thanks. Back to my homebrew now. mmmm F.E. Stout. Cheers.
 
Jazong said:
Even if somehow the tube were to run dry the probe is mounted 4" away from the element so the controller would shut it off once the inside of the tube reached the set temp and that will never be above 168F.
Click to expand...


You are fooling yourself if think your controller will stop things from burning up. Read below...


CodeRage said:
A PID doesn't work like that. You are thinking of a hysteresis/digital control.
PV>Set Point + dead band = turn off

The PID is calibrated to inject a continuous amount of heat at a given flow rate to maintain a temp. If you choke the flow completely off you are putting a lot of heat into a small volume of water. So the acceleration of the temperature is VERY rapid. When you auto tune a PID for a hex like this (at least in my experience) the derivative factor is very insubstantial. So with a weak derivative the predictive factor of the PID doesn't have much of an affect. If you will, the "Oh crap, I haven't hit my set point but I am going to overshoot," compensation.

The P variable will tell the PID to back off immediately but only a fixed (P)roportion of the error.

The I is a proportion of the error summed over time. So when you over shoot the I starts backing off more aggressively as more time goes by. It also increases the output over time if it isn't up to temp. Once you hit your temp the I value doesn't change because there is no error.

Here is an example of why you don't want the PID to turn off as soon as it gets to the set point. You need X amount of heat put into the mash to maintain a constant temp. If you turn it off right at the set point the temp will quickly start to fall. You want to be able to back off enough power to cause the temp to drop with out letting it crash. So you will still introduce some heat when past the set point.

So back to the small volume with lots of heat problem. Once the temp in the HEX starts to cool the PID will turn on again and cause the water to boil in about an instant, it maintains the heat injection profile based at the gpm it was tuned at. So it will continue to boil the liquid in the HEX until it reaches 0% output. Then the whole process will start over. A couple cycles of this will start to burn things up.
Click to expand...
 
Sawdustguy said:
Thats why I was so surprised. If he doesn't have a flow switch or if he doesn't catch it........one stuck sparge and it's another $50.
Click to expand...

Since I only do 5 gallon batchs I'm looking at 2 of these for my kettle.
It would save me from having to run a 220 line in my brew shed.
I already have each receptcle is on it's own 30 amp breaker. I would just need to add Ground Faults and I would be set to go...

"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives." Hedley Lamarr
 
Okay Guy. I can see how there is still some danger of runaway. The only thing I can do about that is pay attention to the High Temp alarm the controller came with. If it goes off I'll shut down the controller and investigate. Beyond that I am starting to think I may have been better off using a Love controller. Can you lead me to a thread that talks more about how to protect a setup like mine (PID controller and RIMS tube) from this kind of damage? Is there a thread out there that talks about a brewer that this has happened to?

Thanks again and cheers,

-J
 
Jazong said:
Okay Guy. I can see how there is still some danger of runaway. The only thing I can do about that is pay attention to the High Temp alarm the controller came with. If it goes off I'll shut down the controller and investigate. Beyond that I am starting to think I may have been better off using a Love controller. Can you lead me to a thread that talks more about how to protect a setup like mine (PID controller and RIMS tube) from this kind of damage? Is there a thread out there that talks about a brewer that this has happened to?

Thanks again and cheers,

-J
Click to expand...

First, I use a BCS-460 in PID mode, not an Auber PID.

But, I have tested stopping the flow through the RIMS tube by closing the pump output valve (simulating a stuck mash). The temp spiked, but never came close to boiling, let alone boiling all the fluid out of the tube.

This of course assumes there is fluid in the tube and you are not dry firing the element. If, you were to dry fire, I'm not sure the air in the tube would heat quickly enough to heat the probe before the element was damaged.

Also, this test was performed with a 2" diameter RIMs tube. Less volume would likely result in a larger spike.

In the test, I had the controller set to 157f, you can see the spike where I closed the valve and the temp went above the setpoint then settled back down.
Here is a graph of the results:
RIMS_Heater1.JPG
 
wilceaser said:
Based on your graph I think you run more of risk of damge due to a dry fire that a stuck sparge.
Click to expand...


I agree.

That said, I have dry fired an element. I was cleaning up and heating water in the HLT with the element in "Manual" control. I drained the HLT and forgot to turn off the element. I was fortunate not to damage it.

All my elements (RIMs, HLT, BK) are replaceable. I did not pot them in epoxy, so I can replace an element in minutes if needed (if I had them on-hand, which I don't).

Ed
 
Thanks Ed. That graph looks like what my intuition had led me to believe would happen in the case of a stuck mash. Not trivial as far as your batch of beer goes, but not bad enough to ruin equipment either. Maybe the old paint strainer bag trick would help protect against a stuck mash and a potentially ruined beer. Then again the amount of wort in the tube would be so small it may have very little effect on the beer. Thanks again for your time. That is really cool stuff.

Cheers,

-J
 
Jazong said:
Thanks Ed. That graph looks like what my intuition had led me to believe would happen in the case of a stuck mash. Not trivial as far as your batch of beer goes, but not bad enough to ruin equipment either. Maybe the old paint strainer bag trick would help protect against a stuck mash and a potentially ruined beer. Then again the amount of wort in the tube would be so small it may have very little effect on the beer. Thanks again for your time. That is really cool stuff.

Cheers,

-J
Click to expand...

Actually, the result is not as bad as it looks. The entire volume was still ramping up when I closed the valve (multiple times). The set point was 157, the spike is really only about 7f above setpoint.

Ed
 
MarkInOhio said:
I'm thinking of including a flow-sensor at the input of my RIMS tube to disable the heater in the event of a stopage. I was looking at this one (probably with a .5 gpm setpoint):

http://www.mcmaster.com/#4960k6/=a35qan

What do you all think?
Click to expand...

SawDustGuy advocates using a flow switch and I concur.

I'm not too concerned about the stuck mash, but the flow switch should protect from a dry fire.

I have a flow switch that I am planning to incorporate while I'm re-plumbing my rig.

Ed
 
Thanks for the link Wilceaser. The only problem I see with a flow switch is that is doesn't tell me if my mash is stuck it just turns off my element or controller. Could I put this between my element and controller? If I did that the open loop alarm would go off when the controller realized the element was not responding. I can't believe how expensive those stainless ones are. What are the preferred flow rates for the various size batches?

Cheers,

-J
 
You might watch ebay.

I bought 2 Stainless, Adjustable switches a couple weeks ago.
The ones I got are manufactured by Gems I think.

Ed
 
Ohio-Ed said:
You might watch ebay.

I bought 2 Stainless, Adjustable switches a couple weeks ago.
The ones I got are manufactured by Gems I think.

Ed
Click to expand...

I've seen one SS Gems on ebay at only a slightly ridiculous price, but it had a 1 GPM setpoint which I was afraid would be too high...
 
MarkInOhio said:
I've seen one SS Gems on ebay at only a slightly ridiculous price, but it had a 1 GPM setpoint which I was afraid would be too high...
Click to expand...

No reason that your re-circulation rate has to equal your sparge or lauter rate.

So, you could circulate at 1GPM to maintain temps, then slow down the flow for sparge which would disable the heater.

Ed
 
Ohio-Ed said:
No reason that your re-circulation rate has to equal your sparge or lauter rate.

So, you could circulate at 1GPM to maintain temps, then slow down the flow for sparge which would disable the heater.

Ed
Click to expand...

I concur that my recirc rate will be much higher than sparge, but Blichmann lists the MAX recirc rate for RIMS at 1 GPM for the 15 gallon Boilermaker, and 0.75 GPM for the 10 gallon kettle. I therefore assumed my rate would be under 1 GPM (my plans are to use a 15 gallon boilermaker for my mash/lauter tun with a final batch size typically around 7 gallons). I don't know where Blichmann got these figures from, but they're the only ones I've been able to find...
 
I've known of brewers who switched from single infusion in a cooler to a RIMS or HERMS and at the same time went from making good beer to making thin harsh beer. Tannin extraction is my fear with high flow rates. It can happen. I just don't know at exactly what flow rate and what temperature that it can happen at.

-J
 
Ed what was the recommended filtration for the flow switches you bought? Most of the ones I am finding are at 100 microns which is 1/10 of a mm. Is that reasonable? I am sure if I did use the paint strainer bag trick it would take care of it.

-J
 

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