What are the traditional dark malts for a Dunkelweizen?

When talking about traditional Bavarian Hefeweizens I think we all know about using at least half Wheat malt, most of the rest Pilsner or 2 row malt, and maybe a little Munich or Vienna malt. And of course noble hops and some sort of yeast such as WLP300/Wyeast 3068.

But when it comes to Dunkelweizens what are the traditional/appropriate dark malts to brew with?

On the internet there really aren't a large amount of good Dunkelweizen recipes however in the recipes I've seen the following malts have been used:

Chocolate Malt
Roasted Barley, Black Malt, Black Patent malt (these just don't seem appropriate)
Crystal Malts
CaraMunich Malts (60L? 90L?)
Special B
Honey Malt

I've also stumbled across the following for sale which look interesting:
Fawcett Roasted Wheat Malt (380L)
Briess Midnight Wheat Malt (550L)


So, what malts do you think traditional Bavarian brewers such as Wiehenstephaner, Franziskaner, and Ayinger are using for their Dunkels?

i used carafa special II

Thanks, but I'm trying to figure out what traditional grains are used. I doubt traditional brewers had blackened dehusked/debittered malts. (Though I love Carafa III for my Black IPA)

Good question! I was also pondering this topic this morning, as I'm planning to brew a Dunkelweizen soon. I haven't really found a whole lot either, but I agree about staying away from roasted barley, black malt, and black patent. Those just seem out of place. Honey malt and chocolate also seem suspect.

If I had to stab a guess, I would say maybe dark wheat, Munich, and Caramunich?

JeezyCreezy said:

Good question! I was also pondering this topic this morning, as I'm planning to brew a Dunkelweizen soon. I haven't really found a whole lot either, but I agree about staying away from roasted barley, black malt, and black patent. Those just seem out of place. Honey malt and chocolate also seem suspect.

If I had to stab a guess, I would say maybe dark wheat, Munich, and Caramunich?

Click to expand...

That's what I'm leaning towards. I'm going to play around in Beersmith with the different *L Caramunichs and see what I come up with.

I did a little more searching, here's a nice article from BYO:

http://***********/stories/beer-sty...unkelweizen-and-belgian-tripel-style-calendar

"At least 50 percent of the grist should comprise wheat malt with Munich or Vienna added for color, mouthfeel and depth of flavor. A bit of chocolate malt (not more than 1 ounce per five-gallon batch) can be added for additional color.

...

5.67 lb. German wheat malt
4 lb. German two-row pilsner malt
8 oz. German Munich malt
7 oz. Belgian cara-Munich malt
1 oz. British chocolate malt
8 oz. rice hulls"

Cool, thanks for sharing that, and let us know what you end up brewing.

Will do. That grist listed above is wayyyy too light however. Beersmith only gave me about 9 SRM (should be 14-23 per BJCP).

I think it may be appropriate to replace all of the Pilsner malt with Munich (~9 or 10 *L) malt. Then throw in maybe half a pound of Caramunich (~60 *L) and maybe just an oz. or two of Chocolate malt.

Per BJCP:
"Ingredients: By German law, at least 50% of the grist must be
malted wheat, although some versions use up to 70%; the remainder
is usually Munich and/or Vienna malt. A traditional
decoction mash gives the appropriate body without cloying
sweetness."

Based mine off of Jamil's Brewstrong webcast. I didn't have the carafa so I used a little choc. malt to get my color. Beer came out excellent....


6 Gallon Batch

6# 10.4 oz Wheat Malt
2# 14.4 oz Munich Malt (10L)
2# Pilsner Malt
6.4 oz Crystal 40
6.4 oz Special B
2.4 oz Choc. Malt

1.1 oz Hallertauer (4.6%) 60 min.

WLP 300

Mash 152 for 75 minutes (Batch Sparge)

90 min boil.

Not sure if this is a traditional malt or not, but I made a dunkel some time ago with chocolate wheat. Turned out good.

My traditonal hefeweizen recipe is:
7lbs wheat malt
3lbs Pils
2lbs Munich 6-10L (depending upon maltster used)

I've tried a number of things to make it a dunkelweizen. It dang near tastes like it now with the dollop of munich. So far out of everything I've tried a small amount of chocolate malt for color has worked out ok. Any forms of crystal is completely out of place and special b has been too raisiney. I also tried carafa special and it worked out about as well as the choc malt. I used a smaller amount than the choc malt, finely ground and just threw it in 10 minutes before I sparged. Really didnt notice a flavor impact but did notice the color went spot on into dunkelweizen "muddy water" territory. If you try to go the route of all dark munich (20L) in place of the pils malt I think you are going to make it too malty. Though I think a couple pounds would be something for me to try in the future in place of the lighter (10L) munich. Then only a small color correction is needed in the form of a dark malt.

I screwed around with Beersmith last night and came up with this:

6.00 lb Dark Wheat Malt (Weyermann) (7.0 SRM)
2.00 lb Munich II (Weyermann) (9.0 SRM)
1.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM)
0.25 lb Caramel Wheat Malt (46.0 SRM)
0.25 lb Chocolate Wheat (Weyermann) (415.0 SRM)

17 SRM with an OG of 1.049 for 5 gallons.

Were it to come out too malty, you could up the Pils, tone down the Munich, and then add more Chocolate Wheat to get the color. I don't know if I can get Caramel Wheat or Chocolate Wheat at the LHBS, but Brewmasters Warehouse has both.

Man, now I want a Dunkelweizen...

I was playing around in Beersmith as well and came up with a recipe. I am not going to use regular Crystal, Special B, or Carafa as none of those malts are traditional Bavarian ingredients. I'm going to use just a touch of Chocolate, and I know that's not authentic, but I'm going for it anyways.

I also used only readily available malts from my LHBS.

Here's what I came up with:

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 6.41 gal
Estimated OG: 1.057 SG
Estimated Color: 14.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 14.6 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
8.0 oz Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 4.40 %
6 lbs Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 52.75 %
4 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 35.16 %
12.0 oz Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 6.59 %
2.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 1.10 %
0.75 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] (60 min) Hops 12.5 IBU
0.25 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] (15 min) Hops 2.1 IBU
5.00 gal Irvine, CA Water
1 Pkgs Hefeweizen Ale (White Labs #WLP300) Yeast-Wheat


Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge

90 min @ 151.0 F

DrinkNoH2O said:

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
8.0 oz Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 4.40 %
6 lbs Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 52.75 %
4 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 35.16 %
12.0 oz Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 6.59 %
2.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 1.10 %
0.75 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] (60 min) Hops 12.5 IBU
0.25 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] (15 min) Hops 2.1 IBU
5.00 gal Irvine, CA Water
1 Pkgs Hefeweizen Ale (White Labs #WLP300) Yeast-Wheat

Click to expand...

Sounds like a great recipe. Let me know how it turns out.

Will do, might be a little while - I'm brewing a standard Hefe this weekend but the next Hefe I brew will definitely be this dunkel.