Need advice from a D & D master

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Fingers

Fingers

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So I want to learn how to play Dungeons and Dragons so I can play with my teenage children. They spend far too much time in front of the TV or computer. I went on ebay to see if I could find some kind of starter kit so I can learn to be a dungeon master. I bought this kit:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWN:IT&viewitem=&item=230115443738&rd=1&rd=1

So I have several questions. Do I need to buy some dice to go with this, and if so, what kind? Is this truly a starter kit or some kind of wannabe watered down version? If this is not a good starter kit, can you recommend the minimum books/materials to get started? I don't want to buy too much until I know that my kids are going to want to play regularily.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
just going to throw this out there. But, being 21 - younger - D&D is the last thing you want to teach your children.
Maybe hunting camping fishing atv's dirt bikes etc.?
 
z987k said:
just going to throw this out there. But, being 21 - younger - D&D is the last thing you want to teach your children.
Maybe hunting camping fishing atv's dirt bikes etc.?
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Why is that? Too much reading involved?

Fingers, that's not a good set. You need to find 3rd (or 3.5) Edition stuff. Best to find a hobbyshop near you and talk to them. D&D can be quite involved, are you sure you want to get into it?
 
Fingers said:
So I want to learn how to play Dungeons and Dragons so I can play with my teenage children. They spend far too much time in front of the TV or computer. I went on ebay to see if I could find some kind of starter kit so I can learn to be a dungeon master. I bought this kit:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWN:IT&viewitem=&item=230115443738&rd=1&rd=1

So I have several questions. Do I need to buy some dice to go with this, and if so, what kind? Is this truly a starter kit or some kind of wannabe watered down version? If this is not a good starter kit, can you recommend the minimum books/materials to get started? I don't want to buy too much until I know that my kids are going to want to play regularily.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

i actually bought this kit about 6-7 years ago.... Hated it. I went GURPs a game done by steve jackson. It required much more imagination and there are about a billion add on books.
 
z987k said:
just going to throw this out there. But, being 21 - younger - D&D is the last thing you want to teach your children.
Maybe hunting camping fishing atv's dirt bikes etc.?
Click to expand...

We live in the country so outdoor pursuits have always been integrated into our household. I'm looking for something more intellectually stimulating for my genius children. :D We do tend to wax to the egghead side of things so I though I'd find some leisure time that corresponds to that.

Cheyco, I realize that there is a fairly steep learning curve but I'm hoping that there are some materials that can ease us into it. I'm a pretty quick study and I learn very well from books. I just don't have anyone I can turn to for advice on how to direct my studies. I'll likely take you up on your advice. My LHBS is also a gaming store. That's what got me to thinking. I'm a bit of a cheap bastard though, so I wanted to find a deal on ebay.

Here's another one that I'm looking at. Is it a little better?

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWN:IT&viewitem=&item=230115443738&rd=1&rd=1
 
I grew up with this stuff in the 80's, it's really weird to hear a parent interested in turning his kids onto gaming.

All you really need is a Player's Handbook and a Dungeon Master's Guide. Most gaming stores have a used section, chances are you can find both of these there since everyone has em. I think Cheyco is right and 3.5 is the latest edition.

If you read any fantasy at all, you will pick this up with ease. All roleplaying is telling a story, one that is changed as you progress. The books are there just to put rules to the story. Don't sweat learning the books at first, just give enough of a read to pick up the basics.

As for the dice, pick up one tube that has all six types and then three more six-sided dice if it doesn't already come with three or more six-sides.
 
Vermicous said:
I grew up with this stuff in the 80's, it's really weird to hear a parent interested in turning his kids onto gaming.

All you really need is a Player's Handbook and a Dungeon Master's Guide. Most gaming stores have a used section, chances are you can find both of these there since everyone has em. I think Cheyco is right and 3.5 is the latest edition.

If you read any fantasy at all, you will pick this up with ease. All roleplaying is telling a story, one that is changed as you progress. The books are there just to put rules to the story. Don't sweat learning the books at first, just give enough of a read to pick up the basics.

As for the dice, pick up one tube that has all six types and then three more six-sided dice if it doesn't already come with three or more six-sides.
Click to expand...

I'm of the opinion that if you raise your kids with the right values they aren't likely to be currupted by something as innocuous as a game. I've read some of the objections that people had to RPG games and it sounds like nothing more than superstitous nonsense and fear mongering. I think my kids are well grounded in reality.

I've read a TON of fantasy books. My eldest is now digging through my boxes and re-reading a lot of the stuff I teethed on. Builds a great vocabulary and command of the language.

I'll look through ebay for a Dungeon Master's guide and Player's handbook (v 3.5), then. SWMBO is going to the city this week so I can get her to pick up some dice. Seeing as how that also happens to be my LHBS, I'll have to decide what I want to brew this weekend. I have a Caramel Ale I want to make and I have another empty primary. I gotta think about summer beers. By the time it's ready, we should be somewhat proficient at the game. What goes good with demons and monsters? :mug:
 
Try a set like this...

http://cgi.ebay.com/D-D-3-5-Players...959QQihZ014QQcategoryZ377QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I got my first D&D set when I was 7, played on and off for 25 years. Great for imagination, vocabulary, history, and instills a love of reading, but thats starting out young. Also tends to hamper social development when starting out young, but you don't have to turn out an uber-geek just because you roleplay, I got married, had kids (well, kid), and rarely suffered from poor hygiene :cross:

Seriously, it's great if you can get your kids into it, but if they dont go in willingly with an open mind you'll never get it off the ground.

If roleplay doesnt work try a tabletop wargame like Warhammer 40k. Build and paint your models and then wage war, cool, but very time and $$$ intensive. There are other cheaper alternatives in the genre, but that the best known.
 
Holy crap that's expensive for used books. I guess the one I bought was so cheap because, well, it's cheap.

Thanks for the link, Wolf. I'll keep an eye out for something cheaper on the Canadian ebay site. I don't want to invest too much money until I know that this is going to fly. My eldest is pumped, but I don't know how the other two will take it.

Here I thought I'd just throw 20 bucks at a couple of used books and few dice and off I go.
 
Wolf said:
Traditionally? Junk food and Mountain Dew :)
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Lol - truer words have never been spoken.

Honestly - games are great for kids. Not just D&D, but all board games. Take a look at some Avalon Hill titles. I'm not sure if they're made any more, but you can get used ones.

I played plenty of D&D. It's great for the reading skills and imagination like others have suggested. You just want to make sure they don't start taking it TOO seriously. That's not a problem for 99.9% of the people that play.

Unfortunately, the game master is the single most important component to make the game enjoyable, fun and exciting. Do plenty of reading and know the types of rolls before you start playing.

One trick I learned - if you're not sure about a roll, don't spend 10 minutes thumbing through the book. Just guess and use your better judgment. The story is more important then getting every single rule 100% correct.

Good luck and have fun!!
 
Fingers said:
Holy crap that's expensive for used books. I guess the one I bought was so cheap because, well, it's cheap.

Thanks for the link, Wolf. I'll keep an eye out for something cheaper on the Canadian ebay site. I don't want to invest too much money until I know that this is going to fly. My eldest is pumped, but I don't know how the other two will take it.

Here I thought I'd just throw 20 bucks at a couple of used books and few dice and off I go.
Click to expand...

How about used ones on Amazon?

I suppose you could go with the first edition books and get them cheap. It is so different it's really a whole different game, but people played it for so long for a reason. There's so much old stuff for sale you'll never run out of resources for it. You can even download a lot of the classic stuff from the official site.
 
D&D is a great skill building game. The combat and skill rules are all math and tactics - just try to keep all your modifiers straight when you're playing a raging barbarian charging into combat while buffed by the party's bard's songs and a cleric's spell!

I personally have been co-DMing a two-player campaign with a lot of NPCs for two years now. D&D can be as fun or as tedious and annoying as your DM. It all depends on how well they know the rules, and if they know the game enough to know when rules can be bent without ruining the game... and their stoytelling skill is key as well. SWMBO comes up with a lot of the story stuff for this campaign (she was an English/literature major and works in a library), and I handle most of the game mechanics.

Heck, you don't even have to fight monsters. We purposely set this campaign in a lower magic area of Faerun (using the Forgotten Realms setting) and started the players as level 1 commoner farmers. Most of out early story was them dealing with mundane tasks and joining the military and being involved in a war with their bordering nation. A lot of our combats were human vs. human; in one case we had a three session battle over two battlemats that was 30 troops vs. 50 troops.

A good deal of it is seeing where the players go with it as well. We have ideas on where any given session will go story-wise, but sometimes the players surprise us. Almost all of the NPCs have personalities now based on how the players interacted with them and circumstance, and occasionally story event ideas come out of how they react to situations. As a DM you can't write too far ahead or it will feel scripted to the players. A sign of a bad DM is inflexibility, but don't let the players take things too far. Luckily our group are hardcore into Forgotten Realms and know the rules in and out so it's never an issue.

Admittedly, we run an unorthodox campaign. It is heavy on skills and straight up RP and combat is not emphasized. It does happen, but only when the story calls for it. Also, as we do not use an XP system and level the characters as story considerations merit the players don't feel penalized if they talk their way out of a fight rather than just killing everything.

It's been two years (four years game time) and they're just now getting magic items and they are level 10. Advancement was at such a natural pace that they oftentimes don't realize they have gotten stronger, just the way a real person would react. They still stand in awe of a 14th level wizard NPC of ours mainly because they met her at very low level and had never encountered a wizard before - D&D often makes magic seem mundane since it's EVERYWHERE but I think we've done a good job of making it seem extraordinary.

To get started you need a D&D 3.5e (the most recent revision, and best in my opinion) Players Handbook and a DM's guide, and the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting if you want to use that world (I recommend it - it's a great setting, but be advised the book uses 3.0 rules so you need to adjust them occasionally). You also need a set of dice with at least one of each of the following: d4, d6, d8, d10, d%, d12, d20. Miniatures and a battlemat make combat easier but they're not essential - I played for years without them. There are tons more books, and our group draws stuff from a lot of them since we have a small library among all of us, but you don't need them to get started.
 
If you want your kids to build storytelling imaginations, there's a great game called Nanofictionary.

Consists of cards with components of a story on them. Draw a certain set of cards, use your mind to connect them into a story.

Any drink will go with it!
 
A few gaming stores will also teach basic D&D lessons and let you play some games in the store. Or, you may be able to join in on some other people gaming. If they're a reputable store, they won't turn their nose up at some old man who wants to learn their arcane crafts (kinda like us ;-) )
 
I have noticed that D&D does sometimes get a little weird when the DM has had too much beer and can't even add in his head anymore - I speak from experience :drunk:

No, I wasn't the DM in question - he was one of our campaign's players. Although he's involved in a TERRIBLE campaign now with godawful players mainly for laughs, but he said it's so bad it is driving him to drink to even tolerate the sessions :cross:
 
3.0 or 3.5 edition is the way to go.. they made the system work on a much simpler set of rules then the previous versions.. the main thing as the DM is to know where you want to take the story.. the best games I played were not the ones where the DM made up plot or important details on the fly (and would then usually forget who he told us to talk to ect ect)
You should definatly try your local game shop.. they will usually let you sit in on a game or two to get the feel of the game.. the bonus is the people there will probably own every book ever printed and you can look thru and decide exactly what suplemental books you want to pick up (DM Guide and Player handbook pretty much required.. AKA DMG and PHB)
Also once you get the DMG&PHB there is a ton of stuff on the web that you can use to supplement your games..

And if you are ever in the VT/NH area of the states come by and you can join in on a few of our games.. We may even break out the homebrew!

SpamDog
 
I know at work on breaks I play MTG (Magic The Gathering) You could start with the core set then go from there.

this is a great pass time. and the strategy is good as well
 
i would start with something simple like axis and allies, or an old game that sometimes you can find online called "hero quest".

that will get you all in the frame of mind of fantasy based games, with toned down rules/regulations, and be a good stepping stone into full fledged D&D

i played the **** out of D&D thru middle/high school, and just about four months ago got back with several old friends from high school, and we now play an 8 man campaign with two DM's every other friday night at my house. my wife plays with us, she's as big of a dork as all of us, and loves it.

if your kids are computer gamers, and they play world of warcraft like 8million other people in this world, there is now a D&D 3.5 rules based world of warcraft RPG game out there. it's not exactly like 3.5 rules, but they are very similar, and it's a true pen and paper style RPG.


brian
 
brian williams said:
i would start with something simple like axis and allies, or an old game that sometimes you can find online called "hero quest".
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Axis and Allies is a great game! There are two more basic versions that are probably better for true beginners called Conquest of the Empire and Shogun.

A couple other great games that might be good for you are Acquire and Settlers of Catan. Playing a variety of games will give them a broader interest in gaming.
 
Board games are good, and I'm not saying they wouldn't be a fun way to spend time as a family. Just keep in mind, they are not "role-playing". The acting and storytelling part will be unique to D&D and similar games. That said, I do like Axis and Allies, but not so much Shogun (AKA Samurai Swords). The latter I played once or twice, and recently sold on Ebay.

I've not played D&D since I was in high school, but I played a lot then. I was more into the power-gaming/statistics/numbers part of it than I was the role-playing. So, that is why today, instead of pen-n-paper D&D, I play a lot of Baldur's Gate II, which is a computer RPG. Of no help to you, I know :)

I haven't played the 3.5 version. If you want a cheaper way into it, go with an older edition. You'll get the effect you want--spending quality time with your children. I would compare it to, maybe, choosing between Windows XP vs. Windows Vista. You will be paying more for it, and not necessarily gaining anything.

Drinking homebrew while DMing would also be a great way to set an example for your kids about responsible drinking. They would see that they don't have to binge drink to have fun, and don't even have to go to a huge party. As far as role-playing, when your kids characters visit an inn during the game, the inn could have a drink menu with ales, lager, and mead, and the players could sample the different drinks (non-alcoholic, of course ;) ), all of which you made!

Forgotton Realms is my favorite campaign setting as well, although there may be some newer ones out since I've played. The novels set in that setting are the best too, IMHO: Dark Elf Trilogy, Icewind Dale Trilogy, mainly.

People can argue "geekdom" all they want. In the end, I'd much rather have my child(ren) playing "anti-social" games than becoming a party animal. Yes, these are both extreme ends of the spectrum. As stated before, in most cases, there are no ill effects of gaming in moderation.:D Besides, we all have a little "nerd" in us.
 
desiderata said:
Board games are good, and I'm not saying they wouldn't be a fun way to spend time as a family. Just keep in mind, they are not "role-playing". The acting and storytelling part will be unique to D&D and similar games. QUOTE]

the game i mentioned earlier called "hero quest" actually is a board game that does incorporate some role playing into it. it has a map, and miniatures for playing, but one persn takes the role of a game master, and they play all the bad guys, and the board is set up room by room, depending on which way each player decides to go into, and the game master has a master book that lays out the map as to what rooms have monsters, which monsters, treasure, traps, etc. and the book also tells the story. it's basically like a super generic lesser numbers based d&d the players have to choose where they go, when they search for traps, treasure, etc. the only difference is it's not a long campaign. no xp is used, and everything is really generic. for example movement is based on a roll of the dice, versus what race you are, and if you're running, walking, etc. it's just "oh, i rolled a six, so i can move six spaces." fighting/defending is decided by dice rolls also. it's really the best "gateway game" for potential nerdlings.
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Do keep in mind that if you get into 2nd edition AD&D that the books can usually only be found used. This makes them a little harder to run across. 2nd edition rules are completely different from 3rd edition, and 3rd edition is simpler and, frankly, makes more sense. 2nd edition had THAC0... 3rd edition (the D20 system) just uses positive numbers for AC with higher being better (you simply roll a d20 to make an attack and add your bonuses, if it's greater or equal to the opponent's AC you hit). Also, from a purely aesthetic standpoint, 2e books look and read like textbooks whereas the 3.5e stuff has a less dry writing style and a less formidible feel overall.

3.0 and 3.5 rules are mostly the same, in that you can use 3.0 books in 3.5 but you may need to tweak a few things. 3.5 was a kind of "patch" release fixing some of the more confusing or broken things in the 3.0 rules, like getting rid of partial actions and changing some spell effects. 3.5 is simply better than 3.0, but the base system is the same.
 
You need to roll a saving throw against your unadjusted Wisdom score or I won't answer your question.

Otherwise you will be struck dumb by my answer for 2(d12) rounds.
 
Radarbrew said:
Hear, hear! Play WITH them, and they learn!:rockin:
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One of the cool things about DM'ing a game for your kids is that you could incorporate different life lessons into the campaign. I'm sure that message would sink in better than a 'talk'.
 
rdwj said:
One of the cool things about DM'ing a game for your kids is that you could incorporate different life lessons into the campaign. I'm sure that message would sink in better than a 'talk'.
Click to expand...


I dunno, going to a cleric is a little easier than getting swabbed for the clap!

:tank:
 
As I said earlier, my LHBS is also a gaming supplier. My wife was heading to the city today so I emailed in my order for the ingredients for eviltwinofjoni's Arrogant Bastard clone and I asked him how much it would cost to set me up with a basic D&D set. He quoted a very reasonable price for the basic set and said he'd throw in some 'extras'. My wife had already left but I replied to his email and said to sell her the kit.

Well, he didn't get the mail about the game on time, but thankfully he got the beer order. So I will be brewing the Arrogant Bastard but won't be killing any dragons this weekend. At least I know that he has what I need for starting a game with the kids and I now have an excuse to go there again next time I'm in town.

As far as DM'ing for the kids, I'll make sure the boys both find a magic condom of protection before entering an inn, and Stephanie gets hit with a monastic spell of extreme celibacy. You know I could really could run with this. They could be attacked by a group of beserker meth orcs that can be vanquished only by whispering in one's ear that the others are out to get him, for example.
 
That video is pretty funny. I like it when the GM starts rubbin his chest and they get uncomfortable, but before the other guy sits down he sheaths his invisible sword.

On another note though, yeah, D&D is often grouped with nerdy folk, but I knew the nerds in high school and they are good folk. Not too mention, they had chicks playing D&D with them as well. And some of these chicks were hot. They'd come to school dressed like vampires and DAMN those net stockings are flipping sexy. I know the GM was getting it on with the hottest one too. SO whats wrong with a little role-playing? I know my wife and I role-play... usually fireman and nurse not wizard and elf-queen though ;) .... but that could be pretty hot as well.
 
As a closet D&D gamer I am finding it hard to post about this.

By closet I mean friends and I played it in Highschool and College and even some as recent as 2 years ago, but no one ever knew but us and we still had parties and pulled trim like it was our job.

With that disclaimer out of the way, fingers PM me, I have all the **** you will ever need and I do not see myself ever getting into it again as most of my friends that played it with me have moved away or are way to busy anymore.

Matter of fact anyone else interested in it PM me and we can talk about what you want.

Anyone seen the Alltel commercial where they put the dude in the van and threaten him then he asks them what level dungeon masters they are and they respond dungeon masters dont have levels and then call the guy asking the question a dork? makes me laugh everytime.

Geek...................OUT>
 
Well, I finally got around to pulling the set out and giving it a go with the kids. It was an unmitigated disaster. Once they got the concept of being able to do anything they wanted, they started kicking and slapping each other in the game. The DM (me) had to threaten to assess damage points to get them to stop. Let's face it, when you sneek up on your sleeping comrade and kick him, the odds of hitting are pretty high. Apparently the odds of retaliation are high too. This of course disturbs the sleep of the cleric and she starts virtual ***** slapping the other two.

So once I got them settled down and ready to adventure, they couldn't agree on anything, despite my coaching, and decided to go off in three different directions. As a newb DM the incessant page flipping and calculating who dies first was really getting to me. The entire troop died three times before they even got through the first level of the Introduction to Dungeons and Dragons set. I'm sure this set is designed for success.

I've never seen such a self destructive lack of cooperation in my life. The thief actually didn't give a damn if the others died so long as he could get to the treasure. This, despite knowing full well that he couldn't survive without them. The cleric actually refused to fight at one point because she was afraid of getting injured. She actually wanted a wizard, nearly defenceless with an AC of 10 and no spells, to spearhead the attack with his staff.

So that's that. We restarted the adventure three times and got hardly anywhere. On the bright side, I didn't invest too much in the set. Maybe one day it will get used again but probably not by me.
 
For a first game, that's not too out there. ;)

Talk to 'em a bit and see what they think the concept of the game is, what they would find fun. If they want to get the whole fighting thing out of their systems, just have 'em fight random monsters for an evening. Then, maybe they can concentrate on the roleplay side of things.

If not, maybe they'll pick it up again in a couple of years and surprise you. *shrugs* :) Either way, it was a good effort.
 

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