Pumpkin! The great debate!

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Stauffbier

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So, I've read numerous threads where people say they don't even use pumpkin in their pumpkin ales. They say they only use pumpkin spice, because the pumpkin doesn't contribute any real character to the brew.

I can't help but think that can't be true, because today I made my first pumpkin brew with 75 oz of canned pumpkin in the mash. The wort has the most wonderful aroma and flavor of pumpkin right now. Am I to assume that this flavor and aroma will scrub out after fermentation? I certainly hope not, because it literally tastes like liquied pumpkin pie right now. I have to think that some of this pumpkin character will stick around post fermentation...

So, tell us...

Pumpkin? Or no pumpkin?
 
Kinda depends... Did you roast the pumpkin before you mashed it? If you roast it, you carmelize some of the sugars, thus making them non-fermentable, so they'll stick around in your final product. Don't roast, and they'll tend to ferment right out and not leave much behind.
 
Kinda depends... Did you roast the pumpkin before you mashed it? If you roast it, you carmelize some of the sugars, thus making them non-fermentable, so they'll stick around in your final product. Don't roast, and they'll tend to ferment right out and not leave much behind.

I didn't roast the pumpkin, but my mind tells me to disagree with what you've said. I do agree that roasting it might make the sugars less fermentable, but I tend to think sugars and flavors are two different components. Even after the sugar ferments out, I would think some of the flavor compounds would still be there...
 
You also say "pumpkin pie" taste did you use pumpkin or pumpkin pie filling which is already spiced? Huge difference pumpkin has not a lot of pumpkin pie flavor on its own. It's the spices that give it the pumpkin pie taste not the pumpkin itself
 
Disagree with me or not, but do a little independent research and you'll likely come up with exactly what I wrote. Year before last, I brewed a pumpkin ale with a buddy of mine, did not roast it, and there was NO pumpkin character in the finished product. I did a lot of research last year before attempting my own, both here and talking to the guys at my LHBS, and roasting the pumpkin kept coming up. So I tried it out, and the results were night and day different.
 
Roasted or not, it most certainly must add something, right? If anything, where else would you get that classic pumpkin orange color?
 
When I eat pumpkin pie, sure I taste the spices. I also taste the pumpkin, though. I didn't use spiced pumpkin, but I did add pumpkin spice to the brew. I will indeed use this batch as a "test batch", but there is definitely very defined pumpkin flavor right along with the spice flavor. I don't disagree with any of you to be offensive. It just seems like this flavor is so strong it couldn't possibly disappear (at least that's what I'm hoping). The orange colored wort is magnificent to look at. Only time will tell, I suppose....
 
I just brewed a pumpkin lager a couple weeks ago. I had 2 lbs of roasted pumpkin in the mash and the mash smelled amazingly of pumpkin, just like yours. All my gravity samples had zero pumpkin anything. No flavor, no aroma, nothing. I just added my pumpkin pie spices tonight, so we'll see how that comes out after another month and some change of lagering. Now granted, I didn't use nearly as much pumpkin as you did, but I figured I would get something, but I had nothing. I hope your brew works out for you.
 
Thanks Nuke! Your results discourage me a little, but maybe since I used so much it will linger a little.
 
The only pumpkin beer I've made is KingBrians Samhain. The pumpkin is roasted and added in the mash, and it definitely adds an unmistakable pumpkin flavor. I don't like pumpkin beer it turns out, but the flavor is there.
 
I'm definitely eager to see how this turns out. That's the funny thing about brewing... No matter how many times you've brewed, when you brew something new it's like being a noob filled with anticipation all over again!
 
I'm definitely eager to see how this turns out. That's the funny thing about brewing... No matter how many times you've brewed, when you brew something new it's like being a noob filled with anticipation all over again!

How true! I've been doing a lot of new stuff lately. Pumpkin and a lager on the same batch, did my first decoction 2 weeks ago, and getting ready to do a winter warmer soon.

Sorry if I discouraged you, didn't mean to dishearten you. That's another funny thing about brewing... when a recipe doesn't turn out as expected, you've still got 5 (or 10 or whatever) gallons of perfectly good beer to drink while you try it again.
 
Sorry if I discouraged you, didn't mean to dishearten you. That's another funny thing about brewing... when a recipe doesn't turn out as expected, you've still got 5 (or 10 or whatever) gallons of perfectly good beer to drink while you try it again.

No worries my friend. Not major discouragement. After all, the base recipe is my house amber, which I love. I know the spices will still be there, since I've brewed a spiced holiday ale with this same amber. I'll be brewing that one soon, as well. I call it Pfeffernusse Ale, since it uses the same spices that I put in my German Pfeffernusse cookies during the holidays...

I've had a few commercial pumpkin ales that didn't taste of pumpkin or spice, so I shouldn't be surprised. Although, I've heard of commercial varrieties that have very notable pumpkin flavor. I just haven't tried them..
 
Yeah, I've had that too, with the commercials. I actually haven't had a pumpkin beer in a couple years because I was on deployment during the last fall beer season, so I am excited to see what the offerings are like this year.
 
Carmelize canned pumpkin, boil for about 10 minutes in a few gallons of water.
Strain water to remove pumpkin, add water, heat to strike temp.
Mash with pumpkin water.

Worked fine for me last year, and the pumpkin water is in the mash right now as we speak.
The house smells like a pumpkin, the water tastes unmistakeable like pumpkin, so I am confident it will work out just fine again!

- B916
 
I brewed a pumpking ale. Last Sunday with 3.75lbs of roasted pumpkin. The wort and aroma was exactly as you described! Full of pumpkin flavor and the color was amazing as well! It's a week into fermenting and the air lock is still showing some activity. I'll let it sit in for another week before transferring to secondary with 1tsp of pumpking pie spice. Very excited for this brew!
 
Regarding the roasting bit everyone is talking about....

How long did you roast the pumpkin?
At what temperature did you roast it?
Did you roast canned pumpkin or the real thing?
If it was a real pumpkin, did you scrape off the shell first?

Thanks! Looking to make my first pumpkin ale (maybe lager?) this year!
 
I would tend to completely ignore anyone's opinion on whether or not pumpkin contributes anything unless they actually tested the same recipe with & without pumpkin.

And the list of people who've done that would be very short indeed. In other words, this is mostly just speculation.
Kinda depends... Did you roast the pumpkin before you mashed it? If you roast it, you carmelize some of the sugars, thus making them non-fermentable, so they'll stick around in your final product. Don't roast, and they'll tend to ferment right out and not leave much behind.
While your process may lead to different flavors, your explanation doesn't quite fit. There are very few sugars in pumpkin.
 
Very few and none are two different things, and I'd even challenge the "very few" qualification.

In my case, I've used Libby's Canned 100% Pumpkin. I don't recall, and their site isn't super helpful in telling us (serving size 0? really?), how many servings are in a 60oz can, but my recipe has called for, if memory serves, 2x60oz cans. And each serving has 4g of sugar. So there's definitely a measurable amount of sugar in there.

As for the difference between with and without pumpkin, I can't speak to that. I can speak to the difference between roasted and non-roasted, or roasting for various amounts of time. On our first attempt, my buddy tossed in a few cans without any preparation, and the resulting beer, while good, was not really what we'd call a pumpkin ale. On my next attempt, I roasted it in the oven at 350 for 45 minutes, and found that there was a noticeable pumpkin note in addition to the spices I used. The following year, I roasted the pumpkin for an hour, and found that note was just about exactly where I wanted it. For reference, particularly on the most recent version, I was able to sample the brew before adding any spices (I used a spice tea post-fermentation), so it was definitely not just a case of "pumpkin spice = pumpkin flavor."
 
Have not tried making pumpkin/squash ale like this, but I've heard the best way to get pumpkin character is to put the roasted squash in the primary fermenter, and skip the spices entirely. I'm hoping to try this with a few giant hubbards that I grew last year. Not counting on them contributing any fermentables.
 
I have found that pumpkin aside from adding flavor also adds mouthfeel to a brew much like adding oats would.

Late to the party I know but just tossing in my .02
 
Stratslinger - the serving size is 122g, so that's 3% sugars. Measurable, yes. Significant, not really. I tend to believe you that roasting helps, but it seems unlikely it has to do with sugars. Roasting certainly makes lots of things yummy that are low in sugars. :)
 
I have found that pumpkin aside from adding flavor also adds mouthfeel to a brew much like adding oats would.

Late to the party I know but just tossing in my .02
Interesting theory, but I'm not seeing the mechanism for that to be so. Oats adds some unfermentable sugars (see the article in the current issue of BYO) but it doesn't seem that pumpkin has the sugar or starch content to do that. It's mainly just water.
 
so would I.
some of us brew a lot. the idea that these side by side recipe comparisons aren't done is Ludicrous.
Wow, so hundreds of people here on HBT test pumpkin beers with and without pumpkin, eh? Including most of those responding in this thread. That's fascinating.
 
SpeedYellow said:
Wow, so hundreds of people here on HBT test pumpkin beers with and without pumpkin, eh? Including most of those responding in this thread. That's fascinating.

Probably, yes. There are tens of thousands of members, many of which don't even post but just use the forum to gather info. It wouldn't take hundreds of people doing it to disqualify your assertion though. I would take the word of even one of the many experienced brewers on the forum who have earned my respect. It's strange the things people are willing to argue about.
 
Okay...

Touching back on this thread I started that seems to have waken up again. I did indeed get what I considered a slight taste of pumpkin in the aforementioned beer, although it was very subtle. I later brewed a pumpkin porter in which I used pumpkin that I grilled over charcoal. This time the pumpkin flavor was slightly more prevalent, with a smoke character from the grilling (which was really freakin good BTW). Nukebrewer tried both of my pumpkin brews. Hey Nuke, did you taste pumpkin? His pumpkin lager tasted a lot like my pumpkin amber. I noticed the same subtle pumpkin taste in his.

Have I done a test batch without pumpkin to compare? No! Could the perception of pumpkin taste have just been in my mind? Sure it could have! Do I care? Not at all! Will I use pumpkin in my future pumpkin beers? You're d@mn right I will...

Long story short... Do what you believe or like. No need to argue it till cows come home!
 
Nukebrewer tried both of my pumpkin brews. Hey Nuke, did you taste pumpkin? His pumpkin lager tasted a lot like my pumpkin amber. I noticed the same subtle pumpkin taste in his.

There was a subtle pumpkin note. I find it hard to distinguish between pumpkin flavor and pumpkin pie spice flavor, so it could have just been in my head, but I was picking it up. Either way they were great brews!
 
bottlebomber said:
Probably, yes. There are tens of thousands of members, many of which don't even post but just use the forum to gather info. It wouldn't take hundreds of people doing it to disqualify your assertion though. I would take the word of even one of the many experienced brewers on the forum who have earned my respect. It's strange the things people are willing to argue about.
Funny that you're trying to troll yet saying the same thing I said above -- the word of just one trustworthy brewer who's done a comparo is worth more than the speculations of strangers. Why is that so controversial? I'm not sure you're correct that most folks posting in this thread have done such comparos though. Hopefully some of those folks will chime in, because surely some active posters have done some good testing.
 
I'm sure I wasn't trying to troll, and I'm sure I never mentioned that I felt that numerous people involved in this very short thread had done these side-by-sides. I know people that have though, and I have tasted the results. Pumpkin does add something, though it is not earthshaking next to the spices and good dose of caramel malt typically found in pumpkin ales.
 
Funny that you're trying to troll yet saying the same thing I said above -- the word of just one trustworthy brewer who's done a comparo is worth more than the speculations of strangers. Why is that so controversial? I'm not sure you're correct that most folks posting in this thread have done such comparos though. Hopefully some of those folks will chime in, because surely some active posters have done some good testing.

Why so angry? Bottlebomber is a brewer that I respect on this forum, yet I have no clue who you are! If you don't agree with him, that's fine. No need to accuse him of being a troll.

Angry people that are intent on provoking a response or insist on an ideal are the true trolls on this forum. Just saying....
 
SpeedYellow said:
Funny that you're trying to troll yet saying the same thing I said above -- the word of just one trustworthy brewer who's done a comparo is worth more than the speculations of strangers. Why is that so controversial? I'm not sure you're correct that most folks posting in this thread have done such comparos though. Hopefully some of those folks will chime in, because surely some active posters have done some good testing.

The Great Pumpkin finds your lack of faith most disturbing.
 
The Great Pumpkin finds your lack of faith most disturbing.

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you won't like the Great Pumpkin when he's disturbed.:D
 
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