BG12 and BG14 on same regulator, drill orifices?

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Mike_A

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I've read the BG14 runs well on 20-30psi, and the BG12 runs well on 10-20psi. I'm planning on using 2 BG14's for HLT & BK but only need a BG12 for the MLT. I figure I'll use needle valves to control the flames, right? Shouldn't really have more than one burner on at a time, but I'd prefer not to have to adjust the regulator AND needle valves.

So can a BG12 and BG14 be connected to the same manifold (aka same pressure)? If so, what is a good pressure & orifice size balance for each?

Using http://www.joppaglass.com/burner/highp_chart.html as a reference, and I've read the BG12 is rated for 70kBTU and the BG14 is rated for ~210kBTU, if I use 20psi (where the recommended pressure ranges meet) I can use a #63 (0.038") drilled orifice to provide 72kBTU to the BG12, but the chart runs out way shy of 210kBTU. The chart *roughly* comes out as a function of orifice area for a given pressure. So if I double the orifice area from a #56, I should end up around 216kBTU?

A #52 drill (0.067") has 187% the area of a #56, so could give me around 1.87*108564 = 203kBTU. Accounting for errors in interpolating the chart data, I think that's plenty close to the 210kBTU rating that's possible with a wide open needle valve.

Drilling orifices is a lot easier for me than buying multiple regulators... but this is all just based on educated guesses. Anyone care to check in on the math, or even better, let me know if/how you've done it?
 
If you are using kegs for kettles I would leave the orifices alone as the maximum burner output on high pressure LP is more than can be utilized under a keg. A suggestion would be to install a ball valve upstream of the needle valve for each burner to reduce the amount of needle valve adjustment, just open ball valve, light up burner, and then fine tune.
You will find that when the burners fired at maximum the flame rolls up the sides and burns up unprotected hardware without helping much, typical firing level with BG-14 will be about 40-60%.
 
I'll be using larger kettles than keggles, probably 25G with approx. diameter of 21". I'll also be heating ~20G of water/wort at a time.

And I don't want to sound like an ass but the question still stands. I'd be using less than the max for the BG14 (recommended max is 30psi, I'm looking at 20psi) and a bit more than the recommended for the BG12 (10psi rec, again using 20psi if possible). In theory I'd just need a larger-than-standard orifice for the BG14 and a smaller-than-standard orifice for the BG12.

I also realize that even the BG12 is probably overkill for a direct-fired MLT holding 10+ gallons of wort + 35lb of grain, but it looks like a mini banjo and if for no other reason I like it for aesthetics (instead of the BG10/SP10).
 
Is this build a traditional "Brutus" build?, if so then invest in some 1" X 3/8" flat bar and make a support "Star" on top of the frame with flat bar on edge to let the burners vent. In theory you can drill out the orifices until you reach the point where the air shutters are fully open, but you will find that firing at maximum level will be counter productive. After the flame leaves the bottom of the kettle the heating contribution is almost nil unless you make a shroud around the sides to keep hot gasses in contact with kettle as long as possible.
 
It's going to be a Brutus style stand, but with no-weld perforated angle iron - aka a Wallace. It will also be beefed up a touch to make sure it's more than strong enough to support a 1/2 bbl setup.

I'm having trouble envisioning the support "star" you're describing. But again, I don't feel like the root of my concern has been addressed - first, is it even POSSIBLE to run a BG12 and BG14 on the same supply line pressure? If so, what else do I need to do or buy to make the burners run efficiently and not too far below what they are capable of? I acknowledge that full-open on any of these burners is probably overkill, so I guess my original post is not quite right - I don't NEED 210kBTU out of the BG14 nor 70kBTU out of the BG12. But I'd definitely like them to work together off of the same pressure. If it's simply not possible, fine then I will buy separate regulators.

For the MLT burner, I would like to be able to step up temps eventually to do acid rests, protein rests, etc using the direct fire. I don't know for sure, but I would think that one would want to step between those temps as quickly as possible (if for no other reason than saving time).

Thanks though for taking the time to read and reply.
 
You will find that the supply pressure is not a factor as the pressure and flow will be regulated by the needle valve. Even at 5-10 PSI these burners give an impressive flame, I use the 6" in the old brewing system flash boiler and seldom run more than 5 PSI with 1/4" OD SS tube gas plumbing. I think that most people do not realize that at higher pressures the gas flow rate for a high pressure burner is so low that 1/4" od plumbing on the gas supply is sufficient because of the higher density of the gas. Here is an example of how much fire you can get with 1/4" gas piping, the newer system home built burner at 10 psi and 90% flow https://picasaweb.google.com/kevin.ladue/BoilKettle#5225673202891787298
 
Great, thanks for the feedback. In that case, do you have any recommendations for needle valves to use with the BG12 & BG14?

By the way that's a pretty awesome burner. You made it? How's it compare to commercially available ones?
 
Well, to piggyback, I am setting up a manifold so I can use one propane tank for my HLT and BK. I have the 30PSI regulator that came with my KAB4 and an old Brinkman turkey fryer with a burner that looks like the ones in the SP10 (in fact the whole thing looks like a Bayou Classic SP10- but is Brinkman brand). My plan is to go from tank > 30 PSI Regulator > manifold > two hoses with needle valves to the burners. Is there any issue with using the higher PSI regulator going to the burner designed for 10 PSI as long as there is a needle valve to regulate the flow? Would there be an advantage to putting a ball valve between the regulator and manifold. The 30 PSI regulator is all ready hard to adjust on the Banjo with the needle valve- maybe the ball valve would help with that. I guess I could break down and find an adjustable or 20 PSI regulator- but I all ready have everything above.
 
For flow control valves you could use the STC Valve Co. ASC-1/4" or 3/8" valves http://www.stcvalve.com/Push_In_Fitting_Dimension-ASC.htm, Fremont Industrial Supply may stock these.
As to the burner, that is the third one like that I have made, 1" OD tubing with 6" arms, 2 rows of 3/32" holes 90 degrees apart, and a 1/16" gas jet opening. The burner in the picture is ignited by a honeywell S97D ignition module and fuel is controlled by a STEC 4550M mass flow controller flowing about 14 LPM propane in the picture.
 
Took a few days to digest info and do more research. I'll probably go with the AS N1/4 valves instead of the ASC because I'm not panel mounting - is there any other reason you recommend ASC over AS style?

For the regulator, I think I'll go 0-10 psi adjustable. I've read some sites saying that BG12s and BG14s can both be run at 0.375psi and other sites selling the BG14's with 30psi or 40psi regulators. Judging by anojones' post I think 30psi is overkill but I also think 0.375psi sounds way too low - like NG pressures. But if the supply line is set at 5-10psi, I should have an easy enough time getting approx 0.375psi out of the needle valve (if that turns out to be the right pressure), right?

I'd just buy these things and start experimenting, except it's compressed and very flammable gas I'd be playing with... so thanks for all the wisdom, my intact eyebrows will thank you.
 
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