Making Dark Candi Syrup

The online supplier I bought my Dubbel ingredients from doesn't have any Dark Candi Syrup (I wanted the regular Dark stuff...not the D2). So I'm gonna try to make my own. I've searched here and elsewhere and there's some info but it's often conflicting. So I've got a candy thermometer and I'm gonna give it a go. Any input/tips/caveats/help appreciated.

I plan to just start with cane sugar and water and heat it up. No acid...the D and D2 dark candi syrups do NOT use any acid at all...it's made from just refined beet sugar (sucrose).

I've read different things on these different candy temps but I'm still unsure. Apparently fructose caramelizes @ ~220o F and glucose and sucrose caramelize at higher temps (~300o F to 320o F to 340o F, sources don't agree) and then maltose at an even higher temp. But the temp some sources give for maltose caramelization is ABOVE the temp some sources say you have burnt sugar. WTF? Or you can just melt sugar ...darkened by how high you go. Apparently just sugar (no water) starts to caramelize at 338o F. Hard to make sense of all this.

I guess I'm mostly wondering how high temp should I expect to need to go? When I get up that high...has all the water evaporated and now it's just melted sugar? I'm assuming I'll have to add water back to make it a syrup at room temp...how much water I have no idea.

You know, back before Santorio, or, Fahrenheit, or Celsius (or whoever really) invented the thermometer, people were boiling sugar and making candy and candi syrup without the aid of new fangled gadgets like that. They were going by the color of it, or at the worst putting a drop into ice water and watching it's reaction, whether it balled, or made strands.

They also used to boil their worts for as long as it took to walk across a field and back, if you read some of "Ye Olde Recipes."

And they still made beer.

So don't worry about it, it's not rocket science, it's basic cooking/candymaking 101, just boil it til you get to the color you want it to be...And it will be fine.


I didn't use a thermometer when I made mine.

Some things I've read advocate adding more water if it starts to get too thick and hasn't gotten to the color you want yet.

Have fun! But be careful, I got a few drops on me when I was adding it to my fermenter and I got burns on by hands that looked like someone touched a lit ciggy to them, from just a couple drops...One of them still shows a scar...That stuff is hot!

Thanks Revvy. Yeah...I read all that in my searches.

Some things I've read advocate adding more water if it starts to get too thick and hasn't gotten to the color you want yet.

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That's what I read too...and when you add the water you drop the temp...not just because of the cooler water but because of the sugar content.

...just boil it til you get to the color you want it to be...

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Having never even SEEN dark candi syrup that's harder than it sounds. You wouldn't happen to have a pic of it in a clear jar would you?

Thanks for safety tip...I cooked in restaurants for over 15 years and have a number of scars to show for it. I can imagine that stuff burning...and sticking! Sounds like a grease burn...x2.

According to more Beer Dark Candi is 80 srm...

If you scroll down on the malt wiki you will see it is black....

Malts Chart - Home Brewing Wiki

Also this might be helpful

http://www.northernbrewer.com/pics/fullsize/Candisyrups.jpg

It's too large a pic to post in here, but it is the bottles of the commercial ones...

Thanks. Weird how the D2 looks less dark than the regular D when you look at the neck of the bottle. I'm gonna assume that's misleading unless told otherwise.

SpanishCastleAle said:

Thanks. Weird how the D2 looks less dark than the regular D when you look at the neck of the bottle. I'm gonna assume that's misleading unless told otherwise.

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Yeah, I thought it was odd as well... I was just hoping for the SRMS of each of them, figuring the chart in the wiki would be clearer...

Well here's a pic of my dark candi syrup. There is also a blob of honey and molasses for comparison (my dark syrup is in-between in terms of color). I got up to almost 370o F and stopped there. It's a dark chesnut brown I guess...smells very 'buttery' for lack of a better word.

2# cane sugar
2 cups water
Heat to boil...boil until temp reaches at least 356o F then cut it before 370o F.
Then I slowly added water back into it (which boils immediately for a while). I added too much (2 more cups) and then had to boil it back down to the right consistency (which was @ about 228o F). That extra boil actually might have been a good thing...the pot and thermometer were mighty crusty with sugar schmegma but the extra boil dissolved it all back in...pure clear, clean syrup at the end.

Looks Awesome..and thanks for posting the pic, now we have a reference on here to refer other people to, when THEY ask the same question!!!! You've just contributed to our knowledgebank!

If it's agreed that that's how it should look, perhaps that image could be used in the wiki?

When you next make it, try adding some DAP (diammonium phosphate, other wise known as yeast nutrient).

Thanks. I dunno if I made something like the regular D or D2 or what. I did find some spec sheets on their site and it does say the D2 is slightly darker...it's also made from a different process.

What's the DAP do flyangler18?

Pop...there goes another mason jar.

Did the dark candi syrup smell or taste burnt? We tried to make some (using candymaking techniques--equal parts corn syrup and sugar, add water to let it darken, and when the water is gone heat to hard crack (300 F)) and it tasted slightly charred. The dark rock candi we used in the other batch was a little caramelly (more like you described, I think) but not burnt--even though our stuff was lighter in color.

Scotty_g,
No it didn't taste or smell burnt. From the Dark Candi website:
The regular D description says:

It’s flavor is full of soft caramel, vanilla, plums and raisins.

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The D2 description says:

This syrup’s flavor is a mix of burnt sugar, figs, ripe fruit, toffee and dark chocolate.

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It smells very nutty/buttery but it definitely has a lot of that 'ripe fruit' taste...I'm just not sure if it's more plums/raisins like the regular D or figs like the D2. To be honest it tastes like it's past the 'soft caramel' stage but not up to the 'burnt sugar' stage. I think it has some toffee flavor/aroma. Maybe I made D1.5.

FWIW, mine didn't really get any color at all until around 338o F which is what the information I used said to expect. I boiled for a while @ <220o F then most of the water finally evaporated and the boil changed (it looked less like boiling water and more like boiling, melted sugar)...then the temperature slowly climbed. When the temp gets up to 338o F or so the color starts to change (I think between 338o and 356o gets you the Amber syrup...just a guess). Then @ around 356o F the color starts to get darker and the temp seems to climb faster. I was slowly decreasing the heat as the temp got higher but even so at one point it seemed to be climbing too fast so I pulled it from the heat and added a few tablespoons of water (one at a time...they immediately boil on the surface quite vigorously). At that point it looked done so I just kept adding water to cool it down. It appeared to get up into the 360s but not above 370o F (at which point it should be getting black). This stuff definitely has a red tint to it and it's not opaque...I can see light/dark through the 1/2 pint mason jars.

One thing I did read was that Fructose caramelizes at a lower temp than glucose or sucrose (maltose is even higher). If you used high fructose corn syrup maybe that darkens faster and at lower temps than cane sugar? From my extremely limited understanding...at least some of the sucrose in cane sugar inverts from the heat. The Dark Candi site says their D syrup is about 2 parts sucrose to 1 part glucose and 1 part fructose.

Anyway, those temps seemed to be key temps to watch out for: 338, 356, 370. Once you hit 338 lower the heat and slow down...and monitor the temp closely.

One other tip I read somewhere was to use a clean paintbrush and dip it in water and brush the sides of the pot just above the liquid level (it gets crusty) to get the crusty stuff back into solution. It worked but I'm not sure it was necessary. If you do this be careful of the steam.

Tried a tiny bit in my coffee this morning (still mostly sugar though)...definitely toffee/buttery and doesn't taste burnt. I still can't imagine too much of this in a brew though...we'll see...the dubbel is next weekend (Pacman Enkle this weekend). Still...I won't really know if I was successful for what...2 years!

What's the DAP do flyangler18?

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Ostensibly, it acidifies the syrup slightly to help with the invert. When I make candi syrup, I start with corn syrup rather than table sugar.

flyangler18 said:

Ostensibly, it acidifies the syrup slightly to help with the invert. When I make candi syrup, I start with corn syrup rather than table sugar.

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When I saw you mention DAP yesterday all I could picture was this.





I've used creme of tartar and lemonjuice...but 'castle stated in his post that he didn't wanted to use any acid to invert, and wanted to do it by heat alone...

Oh OK. I intentionally used cane sugar and no acid because that's what the D and D2 syrups are: 100% beet sugar and nothing else. I read of at least two unsuccessful attempts using acid...IIRC both saying it ended up with a sourness. Supposedly the heat partially inverts the sucrose.

In any case, I was just wanting to try pure cane sugar this time but now that I've done it this way I should also try it with some acid and see how that goes. It's just a couple # of sugar.

EDIT: I was actually gonna start with corn syrup but all my grocery had was the vanilla stuff.

EDIT: I was actually gonna start with corn syrup but all my grocery had was the vanilla stuff.

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Yeah, no vanilla! It's actually Randy Mosher's technique outlined here.

Thanks flyangler...I read that page but forgot about the yeast nutrient part. I read somewhere that they preferred using corn syrup over cane sugar.

Here's some hard candi that I made this morning; I still prefer using corn syrup for ease in handling and flavor.

That looks awesome! In retrospect...I should have poured some of my thick, hot dark candi syrup on some foil and let it harden before I thinned it back out with water. I wanna try corn syrup but I just have to find a place that has the non-flavored stuff.

Thanks for everyone's advice in this thread. I made a test batch tonight. It looks great but I haven't tasted it yet. I'm waiting for it to cool off.

EDIT: Finally, I got a taste! To get the obvious out of the way, it tasted sweet and sugary, reminiscent of honey. Other tastes that came to mind: vanilla, caramel, slightly raisiny. I only cooked it for an hour. I might go for longer next time, or try it with brown sugar. Cheers!