I'm tired of losing a gallon of beer during fermentation!

Here's the order of events:

• 5 Gallon Carboy + Airlock...explosion covering my ceiling
• 5 Gallon Carboy + Blow off tube to bucket, lose 1.5 gallons of beer in the first 24 hours
• 5 Gallon Carboy + under-pitched yeast (hoping to reduce the vigorous fermentation start…nope, 24 hours later I lose a gallon of beer into the blow off bucket
• 6 Gallon Carboy, 5 gallon batch, blow off tube….I lose half a gallon of beer in first 24 hours

I'm tired of losing beer and I feel like no one else complains about this so it must be something I'm doing wrong. Most batches I lose beer on are 1.080 OG or higher, fermenting at 65 Degrees F and I always use a blow off tube for the first 72 hours and then switch to airlock. Bucket is usually water in a metal pot with a bit of star san in it.

I pitched 3724 + brett C into a 1.088 OG Saison...12 hours later, the 5 gallons of beer in a 6 gallon carboy is now close to 4 gallons of beer..technically, it's Wort still but you get the point.

anyway, I'm pissed. I'm sick of losing roughly 16 pints of beer with every batch I brew.

Thought I'd add..I finally bought a 6.5 gallon carboy and didn't lose a single ounce of beer in that fermentation. It was nice filling my corny keg all of the way to the top for once.

If there is some secret I'm missing where I don't lose 20% of my beer with every fermentation in a carboy 6 GAllons or less, I'm all ears. This is very frustrating!

Are you opposed to using Fermcap-S?

I may be new here, but the only common denominator I see is a carboy that is only 1 gallon larger then your brew.

If a carboy is a must for you, get a larger one.

Plastic buckets work a little better at limiting blow off. 7 to 7.5 gal, and they do not concentrate at the top.

I was going to say maybe a bigger fermenter but that seemed to have worked. Some people use anti foaming agents however I don't simply because I don't know what they are, maybe someone will fill in. In a thread I created about making mead with ale yeast someone told me to remove about 1/4 of the mead/wort and refridgerate it, then when krausen goes down add the rest in. This would work in your case the same as getting a bigger fermenter.

I have glass 6.5g carboys and have only had a blow out on a RIS stout that was 1.100 and I actually ended up with more volume than planned.

Past that, never had an issue.

I'll do my 1.060 and under beers in the 6 gal better bottles and they get scary close, but never have blown out. I don't try to under or over pitch, and keep my temps in check like you, so..

I'd assume you are getting more volume that you think, and blowing it out, and that you see that a bigger fermenter will fix the problem.

Infact, I just finished a 1.081 DIPA, and actually had like 24ounces left in the carboy that wouldn't fit in the keg without going well over the the gas dip tube.

A larger fermenting vessel definitely helps, but you found that out. I've only had 1 batch that even needed a blowoff in my 6.5 gallon carboy. I'm not sure if I'm full of it on this one, but I think high gravity batches tend to have very active fermentations as well. So part of it could be just brewing big beers.

What temperature do you have at the height of fermentation. If you ferment at the lower end of the yeasts range I find that I get less blow off. I make 5.25 gallons in a 6 gallon better bottle and the least I ever got to the bottling bucket was just under 5 gallons. That one was the largest blow off combined with a larger than normal amount of trub.

Bigcorona said:

Plastic buckets work a little better at limiting blow off. 7 to 7.5 gal, and they do not concentrate at the top.

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This, my LHBS sells 8 Gallon Brewcraft bucket fermenters. Can do huge beers or a hefe and not ever need to worry...never had to worry about blowoff tubes or anything of the like.

Carboys for me are only for secondary, which i dont really do much of now...so most are relegated to aging Barleywines/Ciders/RIS/etc that need to sit out of the way for 6+ months

Temperature of the initial ferment has a lot to do with whether you have blowoff or not. I start my ales at about 62 and have always had a very slow ferment with one bubble per second (if the lid on the bucket seals well) being the fastest. I do move the fermenter to a warmer location once the ferment slows because the yeast can quit on you if they stay that cool.

If you pitch your yeast when the wort is still warmer with the intent on cooling it in the fermenter by putting it in a cool place you may have yeast activity that is so strong that you can't get the temperature down.

right sizing blah blah. That seems to be the consensous. I'd also like to ask do you have a 5 gal mark on your carboys so you know you are only putting in 5 gallons? I usually go about 5.25 to 5.5 in my bucket (at 6.5).

This matters because instead of having 1 gallon (about 20% of the beer) as head space, the 5.25 would reduce it to 3/4 gallon (about 14%). Not that there is anything magical about 20% head space, it seems more a rule of thumb.

I personally think that the 20% rule is more important in a carboy because I suspect as the foam gets to the narrowing, the sides give it more support/less bridging. So while the height needed in a carboy might be more, the narrowing might help with keurausen(sp?) support/retention and increase blowouts, but that is a guess, nobody has tested this.

I'd suggest that if you don't have an aversion to plastic, go with a bucket and rack if you want. There are some larger buckets - 7 and 7.9gal. The 7.9 are sold with wine kits in mind, but no reason you couldn't use it.

If you don't like plastic, then the fermcap-s or other anitfoaming agent would be the way to go (I have no experience with those)

Is it beer yet? Also as far as it goes, once the yeast is pitched it is beer (legally) and once it has errupted, I bet you have enough alcohol in it to count as a week beer practically.

I would say its a combination of 2 factors. The biggest being the smaller Carboy capacity... It's kinda given that if you ferment in a 5 gallon Carboy and it blows off ( which it probably will ) you will loose some part of your capacity as the Krausen takes away hop debris and oils proteins and liquid content of the beer. The solution is either smaller batches in the 3.5 gallon capacity for a 5 gallon carboy or use a 6.5 gallon Carboy. I use 6.5 gal capacity for all my primary ferments and rarely have blow off issues. The second which is not really a problem is the high gravity of your beers.... I have found the higher the gravity and assuming proper pitching in my expierence leads to super vigorous fermentation. Now that said I wouldn't stop brewing higher gravity beer I would just figure a bit higher starting volume lets say 5.75 gallons in primary, hook up a blow off and figure you'll loose a bit but will still have at least 5.25 when all is said and done. Happy brewing.

I have found that 7.9 gallon plastic buckets with a good seal, to make 5.5 gallons, and yes marked so you know what you are adding... airlock right off the bat, no blow off tube needed. Waste not, want not. I am starting to switch from glass to plastic and I like it.

Are all theses yeasts you are using "top cropping"?

Most of my beers use US-05 or Nottingham yeast and with those yeasts fermenting at 65F I never even have to install a blow off for 5.5 gallons in a 6 gallon carboy, ever!

Now the Wyeast 3787 I used a couple weeks ago on my first Belgian...whole different story! I lost about 1/2 gallon to blow off on that one. :/

MalFet said:

Are you opposed to using Fermcap-S?

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I'm not opposed to it and it seems that's what I have to do. so, as others mentioned, I do realize a larger head space reduces the amount of wort lost during fermentation BUT 4 of my carboys are 5 gallon, 1 is 6 gallon and 1 is 6.5 gallons. I'm not about to upgrade to 6.5 gallon carboys across the board so I certainly feel like fermcap is my next option at least until I invest in more larger carboys.

kh54s10 said:

What temperature do you have at the height of fermentation. If you ferment at the lower end of the yeasts range I find that I get less blow off. I make 5.25 gallons in a 6 gallon better bottle and the least I ever got to the bottling bucket was just under 5 gallons. That one was the largest blow off combined with a larger than normal amount of trub.

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I generally ferment all beers at 65. My basement keeps 50-60 year round so I could start fermentation in there and just assume it's going to take longer due to the lower temp. I rarely ferment anything above 70F

BobbiLynn said:

I have found that 7.9 gallon plastic buckets with a good seal, to make 5.5 gallons, and yes marked so you know what you are adding... airlock right off the bat, no blow off tube needed. Waste not, want not. I am starting to switch from glass to plastic and I like it.

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I think everyone has the right idea. Buy a bunch of 8 gallon buckets from the LHBS, mark the 5 gallon fill line on each of them and use Fermcap-S and that should reduce this issue.

1. I am aware of the head space issue but was hoping there was a way to still keep using 5 gallon carboys (since I have 4 of them) without this but maybe I'll just designate those as secondary fermenters from here one out
2. Higher gravity beers are going to be more vigorous and most of the beers I do are 1.080 and higher so I really just need to use bigger buckets
3. I have fill lines marked on my 6 and 6.5 gallon carboys so I'm doing right at 5...

Thanks all for the advice. It's weird I don't see this topic too much here but glad to know I'm not alone.

Buckets, 6 1/2gal or bigger for 5 gal, problem solved.
I also start my fermentation temps off at about 60 to 62 deg, after 3 to 4 days raise to 65 deg. IMO this helps too.
All my fermenters start out in a swamp cooler to help slow down the rise of active fermentation temps.

Cheers

With 6.5 gallon buckets your problem (most likely) would be solved. Too much beer in too little of a container, there's nowhere for the krausen to go but up and out.

+1 to the Fermcap. It's a liquid anti-foaming agent that's also good for eliminating hot break boil overs. Food safe, odorless, tasteless, settles into your trub.

Since i've been using it, i've never had a krausen peak over 1" in my 7 gallon plastic buckets, even on oxygenated high gravity beers. No need for a blowoff tube, I just use airlocks with grain alcohol in them.

It seriously works when you use 2 drops per gallon. It must be refrigerated so make sure if you buy it from your LHBS that it comes out of a fridge.

Fermcap. Don't brew at home without it.

adamjackson - use the 5 gallons as primaries on smaller batches, test runs, etc. if you want to try 2 different yeast sets, make one boil and then split into 2 smaller batches with different yeast, or dryhop one etc.

adamjackson said:

I generally ferment all beers at 65. My basement keeps 50-60 year round so I could start fermentation in there and just assume it's going to take longer due to the lower temp. I rarely ferment anything above 70F

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You may be surprised at the actual temperature you're fermenting at. If what you're actually saying here is that your fermenter is placed in a room that's 65 degrees ambient, then you are, in fact, fermenting at 70-75 degrees at the most active stages of fermentation, which would be a big factor in the blow-offs you've been seeing.

Fermentation is an exothermic process; it creates heat. During the most active stages of fermentation, your fermenter is 5-10 degrees warmer than the ambient temperature around it, due to the heat generated by fermentation.

If your basement is holding around 60, then that might be a better place to keep your fermenter, at least until activity starts to subside - then you can move it back up to that 65 degree room/closet/wherever to make sure if finishes up OK.

stratslinger said:

Fermentation is an exothermic process; it creates heat. During the most active stages of fermentation, your fermenter is 5-10 degrees warmer than the ambient temperature around it, due to the heat generated by fermentation.

If your basement is holding around 60, then that might be a better place to keep your fermenter, at least until activity starts to subside - then you can move it back up to that 65 degree room/closet/wherever to make sure if finishes up OK.

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I added 2 pounds of honey to a batch once, condensation from it brewing so hot compared to the room temp. I think I ended up with 7.7 ABV from that batch, couldn't hardly drink it. May have even developed fusels, gave me a headache trying to drink it. The temp of the brew was nearly 80 degrees... in a room temp controlled for around 68 degrees. That's 12 degrees higher. Big difference.

BobbiLynn said:

I added 2 pounds of honey to a batch once, condensation from it brewing so hot compared to the room temp. I think I ended up with 7.7 ABV from that batch, couldn't hardly drink it. May have even developed fusels, gave me a headache trying to drink it. The temp of the brew was nearly 80 degrees... in a room temp controlled for around 68 degrees. That's 12 degrees higher. Big difference.

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Hello, A swamp cooler really helps to close the temp gap for me, fermentation temps only run about 2 to 4 deg warmer than the swamp cooler water for me.

Cheers

I ferment 5 gallon batches in 6.5 gallon carboys, in the low 60's, and have never had anything but bubbles pass through my blowoff tube. Granted my gravities so far have maxxed out at 1.050, but I'm inclined to suggest it's a combination of carboys that are too small, and temperature that's too warm.

You said you're fermenting at 65° F - is that the ambient room temperature, or the temperature of the wort itself? Because if it's the room temp, then your wort will be a good 5° F above that, and fermenting at 70° F will certainly produce a much more vigorous fermentation than fermenting in the low 60's.

I'd suggest using 6.5 gallon carboys, and try to drop your fermentation temperatures a little.

Guess I'll start fermentations in my basement from now on as well. Ambient temp will be averaging about 55 degrees. I'm not in a rush to drink my beer so don't mind if a 15 day fermentation turns into a 30 day one due to the lower temperature.

This is great info

55 degrees ambient may be too low, depending on the wort temperature when pitching. This might be the time to consider putting your fermenter in a tub of water with an adjustable aquarium heater so you can keep the fermenting beer in the proper temperature range so your yeast don't go dormant on you. Also to note is that once the initial ferment slows, you can bring the temperature up to encourage the yeast to complete the ferment. If you don't you can get a stuck ferment which will lead to bottle bombs if you bottle.

Adam - sounds like you need to brew some aging beers to tie up your carboys. Maybe a mead, a wine, a tripel and a bourbon-barrel porter. Forget about them for a few months.

Buckets are cheap, so that's a solid option for primary. That's what I use. Also makes top-cropping your yeast a piece of cake if you want to reuse it.

Another option would be to split your batch. If you have 5.5g or wort, just put it into two 5g carboys. No harm in that. They'll throw off enough CO2 to purge the headspace. Awesome for experimenting/blending strains too.

As for the temps, I might suggest switching your routine - start at 65 ambient, then as the yeast ramp up move to 55 ambient. Depending on the strain, they should generate enough heat to keep the beer temp in the 60s. Then move back to a warmer spot as activity slows. Either than or invest in fermentation chamber to keep the beer temp constant.

You don't see most people complaining about this because most of us primary in the fermenting buckets. Use a bigger primary problem solved.

*edit
Seems that has been solved didn't read too far into it

adamjackson said:

Guess I'll start fermentations in my basement from now on as well. Ambient temp will be averaging about 55 degrees. I'm not in a rush to drink my beer so don't mind if a 15 day fermentation turns into a 30 day one due to the lower temperature.

This is great info

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Yeast driven beers can suffer from starting the ferment too cool. The initial phase of fermentation is where all the character is derived. Getting a bigger fermenting vessel is the solution to saving your blown-off beer. I'd rather have 4.5 gallons of flawless beer than 5 gallons of "OK" to "good" beer.

I question all these folks who "never get blowoffs" in standard settings (6/6.5 carboy and 5.5g batches of 1.055+ beer.

also just a fyi some strains no matter how big your carboy will blow off they are just busy little yeast that get really excited. @ uniondr i've never lost a significant amount but a good .25 gal should be anticipated Finally for those of you who don;t already use it mr.malty.com is the shiznat.

I brew all my batches to end with 5.75 gallons.

+1 to fermcap. You get the most boring starters and fermentations

241 said:

+1 to fermcap. You get the most boring starters and fermentations

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Does Fermcap adversely affect head retention in the finished beer?

Aschecte said:

also just a fyi some strains no matter how big your carboy will blow off they are just busy little yeast that get really excited. @ uniondr i've never lost a significant amount but a good .25 gal should be anticipated Finally for those of you who don;t already use it mr.malty.com is the shiznat.

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Hefe's are usually my most violent fermenters and I don't know that I've ever lost 1/4 gallon. That's quite a bit of loss. I rarely lose anything out the airlock. At worst my blow-off tube has filled with krausen. Clean it out once or twice and that's it.

aiptasia said:

+1 to the Fermcap. It's a liquid anti-foaming agent that's also good for eliminating hot break boil overs. Food safe, odorless, tasteless, settles into your trub.

Since i've been using it, i've never had a krausen peak over 1" in my 7 gallon plastic buckets, even on oxygenated high gravity beers. No need for a blowoff tube, I just use airlocks with grain alcohol in them.

It seriously works when you use 2 drops per gallon. It must be refrigerated so make sure if you buy it from your LHBS that it comes out of a fridge.

Fermcap. Don't brew at home without it.

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No doubt, cool pitching temp and Fermcap-S = no blow up, FTW!

Rick

kombat said:

Does Fermcap adversely affect head retention in the finished beer?

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No.

Rick

Supposedly it settles out. I use less than the recommended amount and still have very mild or boring fermentations. Always use a blowoff just in case for the first few days