Lager pitching rates....seriously?

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petep1980

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A 2.5+ gallon starter according to Mr. Malty for a 5.5 gallon, 1.060 SG Lager?

Do any homebrewers pitch at these rates?
 
lagers need pretty substantial amounts of yeast. mr malty is good but you can use other resources to engineer a smaller starter with the same amount of necessary yeast. you could use 2 yeast packs in 2 gallons and that would work. 4 yeast packs in 0.8 gallons also works. Using a stir plate you could use 2 yeast packs in 0.75 gallon starter and that would also work. another thing to consider is if you refrigerate your starter for two days and decant, you will reduce the liquid you dump in your wort while still managing to dump in most of the yeast.
 
There's a reason DIY stirplates are so popular. That one gallon with one pack you mention isn't too far off if you're using a stirplate.
 
According to the wyeast website with a .375gallon starter and a stir plate my final pitch rate is 13.55 million cells/mL.

Also according to their sit you need between 12million and 18million for a cold pitch at my starting gravity at wort size.
 
According to the wyeast website with a .375gallon starter and a stir plate my final pitch rate is 13.55 million cells/mL.

Also according to their sit you need between 12million and 18million for a cold pitch at my starting gravity at wort size.

Starting gravity about 12 plato I am guess? That is 1 - 1.5 million cells per ml per degree plato which is what is recommended in the literature. Jamil goes with 1.5 for lagers.
 
I've heard you can use 2 packs of dry saflager yeast. Ill find out how well it works on july 4th when i get to taste my first results, but the fermentation sure looked and smells healthy.


edit - Didn't see 1.060 gravity, I did 2 packs for 1.052, so yeah...........
 
I've done lagers in that range with a single packet of saflager. I pitch warm (~70F) and cool the wort as soon as there is any sign of fermentation.
 
I've done lagers in that range with a single packet of saflager. I pitch warm (~70F) and cool the wort as soon as there is any sign of fermentation.

I'll stir plate in mid 60s in my basement 1L, then step up another 2L in the primary ferment at fermentation temps. I'm thinking 50-52. Then I'll just pitch on top of that.

According to Wyeast's site I'll have 20.23million/ml, which is well within 1.0 - 1.5 million cells per mL. I'll actually be at 1.4.

I'm debating decanting the fermented in mid 60s wort, but I don't think 4.5% of the batch fermented slightly above will affect much.
 
I don't. I make a low grav lager and use the cake for the big lager, usually with enough left to save.

+1

Thats what I am doing now. I'm brewing a 5 gallon batch of a low alcohol (1.040 SG) Vienna-like lager with two Wyeast Packs and then using the cake from that for a 10 gallon batch of 5.5%-6% Munich Dunkel.
 
Yeah, you really can't skimp on the yeast if you want to make great lagers. Unfortunately that means big starters and timing your lager brewing so you can repitch the slurry while it's still relatively fresh. I'm on batch two of what will be at least a five batch arc with WLP830. I started it off of a slant and built it to pitching quantity in several steps, ultimately using about 2 gallons of starter wort to get up to a decent cell count for a Dunkel. Now, I'm fermenting a German Pils, next is a Vienna, then a Rauch, then a Helles Bock.

Like remilard, I'll only build up a lager starter a few times a year and then work off of it for a few months. It makes using a bunch of different lager yeasts very tough.
 
I'm tempted to do that. Would there be any adverse affects if after racking to secondary, and before the lagering phase my first batch would be at primary temps while the second batch primaries? I can't really think of any.
 
I just whipped up the starter today. I've got a good chill in the house ~70°F for the next few days so I am going to take advantage of that. Step 1 was .25 gallons with >~4.0 oz Pilsner DME.

I'm hoping to go to step 2 in a couple days, then pitch right on top of that this weekend.
 
Plenty of people will anecdotally tell you how to get around it but I believe they are all sub-par alternatives. Pitching warm will generate esters. Underpitching will increase diacytel. I tend to make a 2 liter starter for less than 1.060 lagers, any higher than that and I make an under 1.060 beer as the starter.
 
My total starter volume will be around 3 liters and my OG I think will be around 1.058. It depends if I decant starter one which I probably will.
 
For those curious, in 7 days using this method and pitching @ 50F I went from 1.052 to 1.017. I d-rested at 1.023 @ 58 for 2 days too. I am now cooling like 5F per day to low 30s before racking to secondary. I don't expect much more attenuation.

So I went .25L on stir plate @ room temp, chilled and decanted.
Stepped up another .75L on yeast cake w/o stir plate and fermented that at 50F for I think 3 days then pitched the entire 4.75 gallon additional wort on top of that.
 
I did taste for diacytl and while I detected none, I noticed a slight fruity taste I haven't encountered with this yeast in the past. I hope that dissipates over time. Not at any point from starter step-up to pitching to fermentation did I go over the recommended fermentation temp range.
 
What tolorance were you able to hold the temp to? Even if your in the correct range (say 45-55) and have big swings inside of that range it is possible to get flavors you dont want.
 
Underpitching will lead to more yeast growth, including more metabolic byproducts. These can include fruity flavors.
 
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