Munich Helles 2011 1st Place HBT- Light lager- Augustiner Lagerbier Hell

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After the D rest can i rack to keg to do the lagering phase? or should it stay in the fermenter for some more time?

Joe Dragon said:
Lagers are boring. Really boring. Expect a slow fermentation. Be patient.

A diacetyl rest should be preformed at about 5 points from terminal gravity. So somewhere around 1.017.

As far as a commercial example- I have no clue in Atlanta. In the Chicago area we have a large liquor store chain called Binny's. They have 12 German Helles type beers in stock.

Google tells me they might carry Weihenstephaner Original Premium Lager Bier at The Juice Box.
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wyowolf said:
After the D rest can i rack to keg to do the lagering phase? or should it stay in the fermenter for some more time?
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You may rack as long as fermentation is complete (as stated above). Although I'm the last guy on earth that uses a secondary. And I will continue to do so.

If, IMO, you have room in a fridge and can lager in a glass carboy this beer will benefit from a long, cool bulk aging. As it bulk ages more yeast will drop out leaving you with an amazingly smooth, clean beer.
 
I have spare kegs and can let it sit however long necessary. Was just wondering if I could save a step.

I used gelatin in my last beer...super clear in the keg. I was impressed.

Checked yesterday and was at 1.019 so took out and sat in basement, 65ish or a bit less. So will let it sit for week?

seems to be bubbling away today.



Joe Dragon said:
You may rack as long as fermentation is complete (as stated above). Although I'm the last guy on earth that uses a secondary. And I will continue to do so.

If, IMO, you have room in a fridge and can lager in a glass carboy this beer will benefit from a long, cool bulk aging. As it bulk ages more yeast will drop out leaving you with an amazingly smooth, clean beer.
Click to expand...
 
Well I told you guys I would let you know how my lager turned out. It could still condition a little longer, but it is AMAZING! I have made about 15 batches of beer so far and this one is by far the best. I am still working on carbonation but other than that I am ecstatic!

11130778_10152725759361039_1572478384_n.jpg
 
lewdag said:
Well I told you guys I would let you know how my lager turned out. It could still condition a little longer, but it is AMAZING! I have made about 15 batches of beer so far and this one is by far the best. I am still working on carbonation but other than that I am ecstatic!
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Outstanding job Lewdag. That is a fine looking lager!
 
Kegged this beer recently. Substituted Cara-munich I for melanoiden malt since I did not have any on hand. After 5 days in the Keg, the beer is delicious. Has not fully cleared up yet. Taste resembles Heineken right now. I'm sure after a few weeks of cold conditioning it will be super clear and taste even better!

The only difference is my OG was 1.048 and FG was 1.013.
 
OK, I finally got a chance to brew this today. Everything per the recipe, but I was a couple degrees low on the mash temp and ended up with a OG of 1.057. I'm sure it will still be fine. It's cooling down to 51°F before I pitch my 2L starter. I'll take photos in a couple of months when I bottle it. Thanks for a great recipe and an easy venture into the world of lagers. :mug:
 
KatoBaggins said:
OK, I finally got a chance to brew this today. Everything per the recipe, but I was a couple degrees low on the mash temp and ended up with a OG of 1.057. I'm sure it will still be fine. It's cooling down to 51°F before I pitch my 2L starter. I'll take photos in a couple of months when I bottle it. Thanks for a great recipe and an easy venture into the world of lagers. :mug:
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Mr.Baggins,

You are very welcome and congratulations on doing a great job brewing a difficult style.

Joe
 
Pulled a pint after a week of cold conditioning. Beer is crystal clear and has a nice rich creamy head. You can smell the malt up front and it just tastes smooth and delicious. I give this brew 5 Stars and definitely will brew again!

IMAG0045.jpg
 
rrkss32 said:
Pulled a pint after a week of cold conditioning. Beer is crystal clear and has a nice rich creamy head. You can smell the malt up front and it just tastes smooth and delicious. I give this brew 5 Stars and definitely will brew again!
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Angelic picture! I hear Angels singing..... ahhhhhhhhhh!
 
SG was 1.040 today (started at 1.057). I'll warm it up for diacetyl rest when I get around 1.020. I can smell a light sulfur smell in my fermentation chamber, but mostly it smells of delicious malty goodness. I gave it a small taste test, and it seems pretty promising even at this early stage of the game.
 
This beer only gets better with time. It even changes in major tasting characteristics. When we 1st kegged it, it was good.

After a few weeks in the keg, it was GREAT! :D

Now this was my 2nd attempt at a lager since I just scored a chest freezer on Craigslist for free. I was previously doing only Ales, Stouts, & Porters. My overall impression is: this beer would benefit from a colder and longer secondary.

The original recipe is a winner. I've been brewing for over 3 years, 100+ batches and it comfortably sits in my top 5 of all time.

I love lagers and this beer is a fantastic example of a lager. Maybe I just needed a change, but oh, what a change this is!
 
Thinking this will be lager #3. Pitch on my cake of 34/70, and use American hops instead of German. C'mon weekend....
 
This recipe tonight, adapted for 5 gallons, and poor expected efficiency:

10# 2-row
1/2# Munich
1/2# Carafoam (pils)
1/8 (2oz) Victory (oops) malt - Guy at one of the LHBS I go to told me Victory and Melanoidin are interchangeable. I took his word for it but found out later online that they are quite different. Oh well.
AND......
1/8 (2oz) CaraMunich just cuz

90 mash
90 boil
1.55 Hallertauer at 60

Can't wait!
 
Just a note.

I was relaxing in the reading room and picked up my copy of Beer & Brewing magazine. http://beerandbrewing.com/ The Lager edition.

Augustiner Lagerbier Hell was listed as the 1st thing you should try in the German Helles category.

This beer is that good. If you like lagers, if you like pilsners, if you like helles.

Yes, you are in a giant beer tent in Munich!!!!

Now I've brewed this recipe once and it was FANTASTIC. Now I'm going to brew it again.

Why keep searching........................................ this is IT!!!!! Variety is the spice of life................................. but after a few flops, it's time to go back to what's tried & true.

Thank you OP!
 
This is going on my To Brew List.

I had a chance of a lifetime to go to Munich--expenses paid by my company. First night I was there, I was lucky enough to visit Augustiner. I had no knowledge of this place before that night. Dinner was excellent, and the beer...

I have never tasted any lager that can top theirs.

While the other top German brewers are very good, Augustiner stands above them, in my opinion. The only thing I have left from that night is a beer coaster :)

I came back home as huge fan of German food and beer. That was about 5 years ago.

About a month ago as I was perusing my local beer store, I FOUND A SIX PACK OF AUGUSTINER BEER ON THE SHELF!! Only one...with a $20 ticket. I already had my cart loaded, and as much as I wanted to grab the last one, I thought to myself I will try it next time I am there.

Have not seen them anymore.

I will give this recipe a go.
 
BigPicture said:
Just a note.

I was relaxing in the reading room and picked up my copy of Beer & Brewing magazine. http://beerandbrewing.com/ The Lager edition.

Augustiner Lagerbier Hell was listed as the 1st thing you should try in the German Helles category.

This beer is that good. If you like lagers, if you like pilsners, if you like helles.

Yes, you are in a giant beer tent in Munich!!!!

Now I've brewed this recipe once and it was FANTASTIC. Now I'm going to brew it again.

Why keep searching........................................ this is IT!!!!! Variety is the spice of life................................. but after a few flops, it's time to go back to what's tried & true.

Thank you OP!
Click to expand...

OMG BP. What a nice note. I actually got a little verklempt after reading that. I'm honored and flattered and so damn happy that people are enjoying this beer.

So yes, you are in a giant beer tent in Munich!

Brew this beer, ferment is cleanly, carbonate it and enjoy. Grab a liter mug, pour it down the middle, let it foam over and run down the side.

Revel in it. Take pride in the fact that you brewed, poured and drank this beautiful beer.

It's a celebration of life!

(I have 5 gallons of this beer lagering right now and will post a picture when it's ready. Using my liter Zum Deutschen Eck mug)
 
Look at what I found at my favorite local beer establishment today...

IMG_20150814_181321282_HDR%201.gif
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I have no clue why the picture came out the way it did.

This bottle simply does not exemplify what this fine lager represents when having it fresh...however, it is still very good.

If anyone is that interested, I'll take better pictures of the color...
 
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Joe Dragon said:
OMG BP. What a nice note. I actually got a little verklempt after reading that. I'm honored and flattered and so damn happy that people are enjoying this beer.

So yes, you are in a giant beer tent in Munich!

Brew this beer, ferment is cleanly, carbonate it and enjoy. Grab a liter mug, pour it down the middle, let it foam over and run down the side.

Revel in it. Take pride in the fact that you brewed, poured and drank this beautiful beer.

It's a celebration of life!

(I have 5 gallons of this beer lagering right now and will post a picture when it's ready. Using my liter Zum Deutschen Eck mug)
Click to expand...

Great Reading your thread and recipe Joe.

Makes me wish I had a decent stein to serve a Helles in after reading this great post. Great story behind the beer. Munich is a great city. Fantastic food, beer and amazing beer-gardens in which to enjoy them together.
 
I am going to brew this in a couple weeks, wanted to share my plan.

5 gallon BIAB
12 lbs 2 Row
0.75 lbs Carapils Malt
0.25 lbs Melanoidin Malt
0.75 lbs Dark Munich Malt (this is Weyermann)
1 oz Hallertau Pellets (60 mins)
1 Pkgs Southern German Lager (White Labs #WLP838) [Starter in 2 L flask for a couple days on stir plate, then cold crash, decant before pitching]

Mash at 154 for 60 mins(BIAB - recirc system)
60 min boil
1 oz Hallertau boil for 60 mins

Chill to 52 degrees
Pitch Starter(make sure starter is at about 52 degrees already)

Ferment: 7 days at 52
D-Rest 7 days at 65
Drop back to 52 - Fine with Gelatin
Drop to 40 over 3 days
Sit at 40 for 2 weeks
Keg

Thoughts?


A few questions
No 'secondary fermentation'. All in the same 6.5 gallon carboy till it hits the keg. Ok?
Are my specialty Malt amounts ok? Any too much?
I picked 'dark' munich malt as this matched closer to SRM of OP recipe


Thanks!
 
virgil1 said:
I am going to brew this in a couple weeks, wanted to share my plan.

5 gallon BIAB
12 lbs 2 Row
0.75 lbs Carapils Malt
0.25 lbs Melanoidin Malt
0.75 lbs Dark Munich Malt (this is Weyermann)
1 oz Hallertau Pellets (60 mins)
1 Pkgs Southern German Lager (White Labs #WLP838) [Starter in 2 L flask for a couple days on stir plate, then cold crash, decant before pitching]

Mash at 154 for 60 mins(BIAB - recirc system)
60 min boil
1 oz Hallertau boil for 60 mins

Chill to 52 degrees
Pitch Starter(make sure starter is at about 52 degrees already)

Ferment: 7 days at 52
D-Rest 7 days at 65
Drop back to 52 - Fine with Gelatin
Drop to 40 over 3 days
Sit at 40 for 2 weeks
Keg

Thoughts?


A few questions
No 'secondary fermentation'. All in the same 6.5 gallon carboy till it hits the keg. Ok?
Are my specialty Malt amounts ok? Any too much?
I picked 'dark' munich malt as this matched closer to SRM of OP recipe


Thanks!
Click to expand...

I've only brewed this once, so please don't consider that I'm an expert or anything. I just wanted to respond so you have at least some feed back and encourage you to go for it, because I really loved this beer!

Yes, all in the same fermentor until kegging is just fine. The only time I use a secondary is if I'm adding in flavors after the primary fermentation is over and need to mix stuff in and don't want to stir up all the sediment.

I'm going to assume that your BIAB efficiency is lower than the original recipe, so the grain amounts seem in line with that assumption. Yours may be a bit more malty than mine with the slight upped quantities of Munich malt and melanoiden malt, but maybe not if you kept the percentages the same, which it looks like you did on second thought. Just be sure you aren't using the 30L dark Munich or you will be too dark for this style of beer.

You don't mention the AA rating of your hops. I used 1.66 oz of 2.7% AA Hallertauer hops for an IBU rating of 16.9. The original recipe's IBU's were 16. My 16.9 IBU's were definitely not at all "hoppy". So, use whatever quantity of hops you need to get you to around 16 IBU's. There are many online calculators are out there to figure that out if you haven't already.

Everything else looks good and normal from my limited point of view. Enjoy this beer. It's such a smooth, clean, refreshing beer. Next time I brew this I'm going to leave out the melanoiden malt and do a double decoction mash. Yum!
 
KatoBaggins said:
I've only brewed this once, so please don't consider that I'm an expert or anything. I just wanted to respond so you have at least some feed back and encourage you to go for it, because I really loved this beer!

Yes, all in the same fermentor until kegging is just fine. The only time I use a secondary is if I'm adding in flavors after the primary fermentation is over and need to mix stuff in and don't want to stir up all the sediment.

I'm going to assume that your BIAB efficiency is lower than the original recipe, so the grain amounts seem in line with that assumption. Yours may be a bit more malty than mine with the slight upped quantities of Munich malt and melanoiden malt, but maybe not if you kept the percentages the same, which it looks like you did on second thought. Just be sure you aren't using the 30L dark Munich or you will be too dark for this style of beer.

You don't mention the AA rating of your hops. I used 1.66 oz of 2.7% AA Hallertauer hops for an IBU rating of 16.9. The original recipe's IBU's were 16. My 16.9 IBU's were definitely not at all "hoppy". So, use whatever quantity of hops you need to get you to around 16 IBU's. There are many online calculators are out there to figure that out if you haven't already.

Everything else looks good and normal from my limited point of view. Enjoy this beer. It's such a smooth, clean, refreshing beer. Next time I brew this I'm going to leave out the melanoiden malt and do a double decoction mash. Yum!
Click to expand...

Thanks! The Dark Munich I was planning for is the one here:
http://www.homebrewsupply.com/weyermann-dark-munich.html
8-9.9 L.
They have the "light munich" as well, would that work?
http://www.homebrewsupply.com/weyermann-light-munich-malt.html
5.1 - 7 L

Can I just skip the melanoiden Malt? I have never used that. Has anyone tried this recipe with and without it(and still not doing a decoction)?
 
virgil1 said:
Thanks! The Dark Munich I was planning for is the one here:
http://www.homebrewsupply.com/weyermann-dark-munich.html
8-9.9 L.
They have the "light munich" as well, would that work?
http://www.homebrewsupply.com/weyermann-light-munich-malt.html
5.1 - 7 L

Can I just skip the melanoiden Malt? I have never used that. Has anyone tried this recipe with and without it(and still not doing a decoction)?
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure either will be fine, but you're right in picking the dark Munich I to match the original recipe's color. So, if you think you want your beer lighter in color, go with the second option above.

As for the melanoiden malt, I love a malty beer. Melanoiden adds that little something in the malt flavor section of my palette that I find really, really pleasing. The only reason I want to try a decoction over the melanoiden malt is to see if I can tell one from the other. (Melanoiden mimicks the flavor profile created from decoction mashing.) I'm betting I can't. I say don't skip it for two reasons: 1. It adds another layer of malty goodness to a helles, and 2. I like brewing a recipe as close as I can to the original before I go off making changes.

Let us know how it goes and what you end up doing. And pictures are always a bonus. :mug:
 
KatoBaggins said:
I'm pretty sure either will be fine, but you're right in picking the dark Munich I to match the original recipe's color. So, if you think you want your beer lighter in color, go with the second option above.

As for the melanoiden malt, I love a malty beer. Melanoiden adds that little something in the malt flavor section of my palette that I find really, really pleasing. The only reason I want to try a decoction over the melanoiden malt is to see if I can tell one from the other. (Melanoiden mimicks the flavor profile created from decoction mashing.) I'm betting I can't. I say don't skip it for two reasons: 1. It adds another layer of malty goodness to a helles, and 2. I like brewing a recipe as close as I can to the original before I go off making changes.

Let us know how it goes and what you end up doing. And pictures are always a bonus. :mug:
Click to expand...

I'll post pics for sure. Thanks for the advice!
 
virgil1 said:
I am going to brew this in a couple weeks, wanted to share my plan.

5 gallon BIAB
12 lbs 2 Row
0.75 lbs Carapils Malt
0.25 lbs Melanoidin Malt
0.75 lbs Dark Munich Malt (this is Weyermann)
1 oz Hallertau Pellets (60 mins)
1 Pkgs Southern German Lager (White Labs #WLP838) [Starter in 2 L flask for a couple days on stir plate, then cold crash, decant before pitching]

Mash at 154 for 60 mins(BIAB - recirc system)
60 min boil
1 oz Hallertau boil for 60 mins

Chill to 52 degrees
Pitch Starter(make sure starter is at about 52 degrees already)

Ferment: 7 days at 52
D-Rest 7 days at 65
Drop back to 52 - Fine with Gelatin
Drop to 40 over 3 days
Sit at 40 for 2 weeks
Keg

Thoughts?


A few questions
No 'secondary fermentation'. All in the same 6.5 gallon carboy till it hits the keg. Ok?
Are my specialty Malt amounts ok? Any too much?
I picked 'dark' munich malt as this matched closer to SRM of OP recipe


Thanks!
Click to expand...

Sorry for the late reply and "Thank you" to Kato for the solid reply.

No secondary is fine although the longer you lager this beer the better it gets. I would not recommend lagering for 6 weeks on the yeast cake. You will be fine at 2 or 3 weeks.

Of course it's your beer but the Melanoiden really does add a certain complexity to the beer. Taste the grain (Taste all your grains except carapils cuz you'll break a tooth).

Your SRM looks fine. Brew it and post a picture!
 
My supplies arrive shortly. Going to do this brew end of next week. I have been reading around about the best vessel to lager in. I was thinking of going to the keg AND carb'ing it right away. Would the carb'ing have a bad impact? I read around and people seem to think its fine. So my schedule would be:

Ferment: 7 days at 52 in carboy
D-Rest 7 days at 65 in carboy (is 7 too long? Should I do 3 or 4?)
Drop back to 52 - Fine with Gelatin in carboy
**rack to keg, put at 14 PSI
Drop to 40 over 3 days
Sit at 40 for 2 weeks

Thoughts?
 
I think carbing and lagering at the same time is fine. I've never noticed any difference, but YMMV. Everything looks good to me. Should turn out great.

Though on the D-rest, that's a variable. If you don't detect diacetyl then you don't really need to do one, but if you have some, let it sit until it goes away. Could be 2-3 days or could be longer. But doing a d-rest for 2-3 days just on GP wouldn't hurt anything at all either.
 
I made this beer last weekend per my previous post. In the fermentor now. Hit my OG of 1.051, and just took a sample. Its at 1.020 right now. Going to let it go a couple more days then raise the temp for a rest until next weekend....then move to keg and start the lager process! Ferm temp set to 52 F.
 
virgil1 said:
I just brewed this recipe with Melanoidin, was looking for an organic substitute(I know I will brew this many more times). Would this work in its place?
http://www.breworganic.com/chateau-castle-organic-biscuit-malt-1-lb.html

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I've no great experience with biscuit malt, but flavor/aroma profile is different to me than melanoidin malt. Biscuit is called biscuit for obvious reasons. I've used in in ESB's to try and give it a little twist. Melanoidin, to me, gives a beer that undefinable extra bit of malty goodness.

I did a cursory search for organic melanoidin malt and found a couple of vendors selling it. So, you might be able to get melanoidin, but not from the vendor you linked to. Also, in the book Radical Brewing the author states that aromatic malt and melanoidin malt are basically the same thing. I have not used aromatic malt, so I can't say that's true or not, but it would seem that it would be a closer choice than biscuit malt. But, I did not find organic aromatic malt, but you might.

Sorry, for the limited experience in this answer. I was hoping someone else would reply. So, take my answer for what it's worth.
 
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KatoBaggins said:
I've no great experience with biscuit malt, but flavor/aroma profile is different to me than melanoidin malt. Biscuit is called biscuit for obvious reasons. I've used in in ESB's to try and give it a little twist. Melanoidin, to me, gives a beer that undefinable extra bit of malty goodness.

I did a cursory search for organic melanoidin malt and found a couple of vendors selling it. So, you might be able to get melanoidin, but not from the vendor you linking to. Also, in the book Radical Brewing the author states that aromatic malt and melanoidin malt are basically the same thing. I have not used aromatic malt, so I can't say that's true or not, but it would seem that it would be a closer choice than biscuit malt. But, I did not fine organic aromatic malt, but you might.

Sorry, for the limited experience in this answer. I was hoping someone else would reply. So, take my answer for what it's worth.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I appreciate it. I have a while to decide..and I still have some melanoidin left from this batch, so I will most likely use it in the next one. Prob brew it in May. Will post pics as this one gets done!
 

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