Belgian Wit - First time questions

So i brew my first Ag batch 4 days ago. I'm very new to brewing so i was hoping you could comment on anything i might have done wrong or that i could do better! There was a couple of questions i wanted to ask as well, but onto the brew

****WARNING**** This is going to be long, I apologize in advance.

Belgian wit ale

5 lbs. white wheat
4 lbs.Belgian pilsen
1 lbs. Belgian aromatic
2 lbs. flaked wheat
8 oz flaked oat

.5 oz coriander seed (crushed)
two whole peals from Clementine oranges

1oz. Kent Golding's
1oz. saaz (us)

WLP400

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Using a converted igloo ice chest I mashed the grains with 4 gallons @152 deg.for 60 Min's. Sparging w/ 2 gallons @ 160 deg (i was shooting for 170 but missed )

Taking us to the first question..... so i take a sg reading and BAM!! It's off the chart (at least my refractometer's chart)

OG @ 1.080-90 I couldn't tell because it dosent go above 1.075(well it dose but there are no lines or num's so you have to guess) so i poured 2 gallons into the pot to try and bring it down a bit. But i was still confused about my wort @ 1.080 ish...

So i called an lhbs and he said "sounds like you have a BIG beer" so feeling reassured that it wasn't to bad a thing i kept on with the brew...

Boiling the wort for an hour then adding the Kent hops(no hop sack)for 60 Min's. dropping the saaz(no hop sack), coriander seed and peels for 15 Min's.

Set the pot in an ice bath for 60-90 Min's till it hit 70 deg. Gave it a good 5 min shake. I noticed that it wasn't all the way full so i decided to top it off (this is where i made a mistake)I don't know if it was just to late or i need another cup of coffee but i toped my 70 deg batch off with a gallon of boiling water. I didn't think that doing this would raise it much , but it raised it up around 90 deg I waited a bit and pitched. SG 1.078

I brought the temp down to optimal fermentation range (70) and have been holding for 2 days

By morning it was bubbling away and started to get pretty wild. Till today (days) it has slowed to 1 bubble every 30 sec.

so my questions are....

1. Is an og of 1.085 or higher normal for this beer and what is it going to make my beer like?

2. Is it OK to just drop the hop pellets in at the right times and don't bother with the bags?

3. How is the gallon of boiling water going to effect my beer!!!! Will this cause the oxygen to give off flavors?

Well that's it for my first AG. As far as i can tell i achieved great efficiency(mostly due to the crushed grain, it was crushed well) BUT i might have screwed the whole thing at the end there....leason learned.

As for any helpfull advice to make my next batch even better, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks for taking the time!

so my questions are....

1. Is an og of 1.085 or higher normal for this beer and what is it going to make my beer like?

2. Is it OK to just drop the hop pellets in at the right times and don't bother with the bags?

3. How is the gallon of boiling water going to effect my beer!!!! Will this cause the oxygen to give off flavors?

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Before I say anything...I just want to repeat the mantra: RDWHAHB! If you don't have one handy, grab a store bought. At the bare minimum, you've learned a lot about brewing all grain, and will have some great beer to show for it!

1. Wow, that's a lot of grain for a 5 gallon batch! Based on those numbers, with 75% efficiency, you would end up with and OG of 1.070. Style for a Belgian Wit is 1.042 - 1.055. In short...you're going to end up with a high alcohol content Wit! 7.7% to be exact.

2. Correct, bags are not necessary for pellets but make the cleanup a lot easier.

3. The boiling water won't have a big effect on the beer, and oxygenation at this stage is a good thing! Aeration is an important part of preparing the wort for fermentation, and especially in the case of "BIG" beer like yours.

For future recipes, I'd recommend the BeerSmith brewing software. It helps a lot when it comes to figuring out how much grain is necessary in a recipe, and what the style guidelines are for the style you're brewing. In addition, it's just a good all around program with many tools that make brewing all grain much easier.

I think 2 heads summed it up pretty well, it will be high alcohol, but it will be fine, congrats on your first ag, let us know how it turns out.

+1 to brew software. I use Pro Mash and I really like it.

ChewUrBrew said:

.i toped my 70 deg batch off with a gallon of boiling water. I didn't think that doing this would raise it much , but it raised it up around 90 deg I waited a bit and pitched. SG 1.078
1. Is an og of 1.085 or higher normal for this beer and what is it going to make my beer like?

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Well, it looks like your OG is 1.078, which is a bit high but not too bad. If you're concerned about an 8% wit, you could always add some water (boiled and cooled) to dilute it a bit. You don't have much in the way of hops to "balance" this beer, but it still should be very tasty- malty and tasty.

Sounds like you did fine for your first AG. The only change I'd recommend is to cool the wort much faster. More than an hour is way too long- a wort chiller might be a good investment for you. In a wit, clarity isn't a concern at all but it future beers it will be and 90 minutes or so to cool gives you a chance for some nasties to take hold, and you won't get a cold break. Just my $.02!

Sounds like you possibly made a 10 gallon recipe for 5 gallons?

Im not that experinced but looks to me like you didn't use enough water. You mashed with 4g and sparged with 2g. After grain absorbtion you would only have like 3g of wort...now my inexperince here but isn't first runnings higher because you get more sugar less water? 2nd that is a huge grain bill!! Congrats though i'd drink it im sure

boiled water shouldn't contain any oxygen. it all gets boiled out.

you're fine...i'm PLANNING to make a high gravity wit soon

Wow - that is a lot of grains for a 5gal wit, but I love high gravity - high octane final products.
I think yours answers have already been posted but to summarize from my point of view.
1- Nothing wrong with high octane beers, hopefully it will come out very wheat-y and smooth.
2- I use pellet hops with no bags, I "attempt" to let the wort settle before racking to the primary but I have never been able to taste a difference in taste even if I just pour all the crud (trub) in. (*On bad brew days*)
3-I think you under sparged, volume control is the first thing to get down. Mark your brew pot, or you stirring spoon to basic gallon marks will help.
Short answer, Relax. As long as you kept everything clean I'm sure the final product will be great, and you know what? You made it.

You absolutely didn't sparge enough. I wonder if that was motivated by a small brew kettle or that you just didn't realize. You should have sparged with about 4 gallons for a total preboil volume of about 6.5 gallons.

Bobby_M said:

You absolutely didn't sparge enough. I wonder if that was motivated by a small brew kettle or that you just didn't realize. You should have sparged with about 4 gallons for a total preboil volume of about 6.5 gallons.

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Wow, didn't even think of that. At most with a 4 gallon mash and 2 gallons sparge, he would have collected ~ 3 gallons...maybe.

I'm thinking the original mash of 4 gallons probably yielded 2.75 gallons after grain absorption, then 2 gallon sparge got him to 4.75. That's not even up to the full batch size yet and you'll boil off 1.5 gallons in 60 minutes.

Hey all thanks for all the helpful comments , takes a load off my mind, whew!

Sounds like you possibly made a 10 gallon recipe for 5 gallons?

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No it wasn't a 10 gal batch but i upped the grain on it by 2#'s. I heard a few places that if you have low efficiency it's good to have a couple extra pounds of grain. I thought , as this was my first time AG, that by default i would not hit my numbers so i over compensated :fro:

boiled water shouldn't contain any oxygen. it all gets boiled out.

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well i wasn't worried about oxygen in the boiled water, it's the water in the my carboy it had already been aerated

You absolutely didn't sparge enough. I wonder if that was motivated by a small brew kettle or that you just didn't realize. You should have sparged with about 4 gallons for a total preboil volume of about 6.5 gallons.

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Your right, my two brew pots are : 2 1/2 + 5 gallon this is why i ended up topping off at the end with water and i also added aliitle wort i had in a side pot that was overflow, so to speak. the next thing on my list is 7gallon brew pot and a wort chiller, two essentials I'm starting to realize.

I'm thinking the original mash of 4 gallons probably yielded 2.75 gallons after grain absorption, then 2 gallon sparge got him to 4.75. That's not even up to the full batch size yet and you'll boil off 1.5 gallons in 60 minutes.

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It was about 3 gallons i yielded from the original mash another two from the sparge and then i tested and was like "WOW" so i preceded to dilute it with four gallons and then i DUMPED (lol i didn't know what to do the SG was 1.08+) two gallons down the drain and boiled down the other two gallons till it was one gallon and i boiled down the main pot so i ended up with, 3 1/2 gal in main, and about alittle less the one gallon in the 2 gallon pot. then topped off to end up with 5 gallons did that make any sense?!?!?

So at this point in time it has almost completed main fermentation it could very well have another week to go to finish it might just take some time there is a lot for those Lil yeasty's to break down.In fact how bad is it to pitch more yeast ? or a better question is when for instance is it a good time to pitch more yeast?

When i end up racking it to the secondary, i plan on dry hopping adding A LOT more orange (zest this time, i don't want the white part of the peal sitting in the beer for long periods of time) and a vanilla bean(this just sounds good , I'm still debating it) and let it sit for a couple weeks...
question: when I'm letting it age in the secondary is it good to keep it as cool as possible like 60 deg.?


Thanks everyone for all the great advice!i can't wait to taste this bad boy, could be, dare i say ...Amazing

So i just checked the status of the fermentation... sg is at 1.045 and holding

Do i have a stuck fermentation? What should i do , I'm worried that i had to high a starting gravity for the amount of yeast i used (1 vile WLP400).

Any one have any suggestions? Thanks for any help!

ChewUrBrew said:

So i just checked the status of the fermentation... sg is at 1.045 and holding

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Tilt/rock the fermenter gently to rouse the east from the bottom, but try not to oxygenate the wort.
When I use Wit yeast I do this every couple of days, they are really lazy.

yeah, rouse it up. there's nothing but co2 in there anyway. spin that sucker and let those yeast know who's boss!

lol will do

Ok so it's been 8 days since i started giving the carboy a swirl.. it seems to be still fermenting BUT it's still stuck around 1.040-1.045. I't came down from 1.08 so it's prolly around 4-5 % mabey? I don't know what to do really... Should i just bottle it or should i put it in a secondary and get a yeat starter going and try and get it fermenting agine?!?!

I don't want this to happen the next time i brew, what could have caused this, not enought yeast?

Thanks for helping this old newb out

Yes, anything over 1.045 should have a starter. It is quite simple and it make your fermentation go crazy. Just boil 2 quarts of water and then add 1/2 cup light DME and boil for 5 min or so. Add to a sanitized jar and pitch your yeast....shake the crap out of it and let it sit with an air lock or sanitized piece of foil over the top. Go to howtobrew.com for a more detailed description. Let it sit for a couple days. Each day rousing the yeast. On the day you are going to brew get the yeast to ferm temp and pitch when needed.

hmmm...that definitely still has a ways to go. make a nice starter and pitch it after a day or so, while it's actively fermenting.

"Straffe wit" new style?

ChewUrBrew said:

Ok so it's been 8 days since i started giving the carboy a swirl.. it seems to be still fermenting BUT it's still stuck around 1.040-1.045. I't came down from 1.08 so it's prolly around 4-5 % mabey?

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1.080? Wow, that's a WIT.
If it is still working, I'd live it like that. It is not unusual that a wit (I mean wit - 1.048) ferments 2 weeks.

AHHhh to late I transferred to secondary and pitched some danstar (Nottingham). I'm just going to let it do it's thing, let it settle ,bottle and move on to my next brew. This is going to very interesting brew....I really wanted a flavorful brew, I think i got it

I'll update in a couple days thanks again everyone!

i wouldn't have transferred to secondary, due to the fact that you are removing a lot of the original yeast which could still help with the job. that nottingham should take care of it, tho. hope it works out!

ChewUrBrew said:

I transferred to secondary and pitched some danstar (Nottingham).

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Let us know if they start doing their job. Did you make a starter?

Yum, imperial Wit. Sounds good!

Hmmm OK...IT'S ALIVE!!!!


Yep it's working alright but i just took a reading and it's still at or around 1.040 ... should i just let it sit for another couple weeks? My only concern is letting it sit on the yeast cake in the secondary lol i was kinda hoping that it would go a little faster when i added the danstar, but it's slow going :/ I also added (when i transferred to secondary)a vanilla bean and more hops and about 2oz fresh orange zest, It taste great!! kinda yeasty, but not over powering, wow if i could only get it to 1.25- 20ish Hmmm

Thoughts anyone? I know this is all sounding very noobish but damn this is going to be a recipe to revisit, rework and I might just have made my first favorite beer Thanx for the feed back!!

something is wrong. two weeks after pitching nottingham and still at 1.040? how does it taste? are you sure your mash was at 152°F???

maybe your hydrometer is broken...this just seems absurd.

It taste alright....I moved it downstairs and it got a little shook up,could that throw off the reading? it didnt look like it really got mixed tho...just a little stirred up on the bottom.

And i tested the thermometer and it works just fine 32 deg f in ice water.... so i'm sure it mashed at the right temp ....although my sparge water was at 160-165 cold that be a major problem?

this is my first mash but from what ive read i thought it woul have been done or close to it by now.I'm going to let it sit for a day or so then re test.

32°F ice water? those are supposed to be calibrated at 60°F. it should read 1.000 at 60°F.

EDIT: oops, sorry, i thought you were talking about the hydrometer.

sparge shouldn't be a problem. what about your hydrometer?

lol the thermometer NOT the refractometer, read it again


....also i calibrated the refract right after i read your post and it sits right at zero with distilled water.

are you using the refract for your final gravity? that might be your problem...try an hydrometer. there's no way that would taste good at 1.040 for an all-grain.

I have a refractometer. I use it during 1st, 2nd and 3rd runnings. Then I put it away. I read OG and FG with a hydrometer because the refractometer is not accurate enough for OG (it's made for measuring sugar, not dextrins) and is almost useless for FG due to the alcohol and high concentration of dextrins.

A 10* Brix reading is probably somewhere around 1.010 or lower with as much alcohol you would have in a 1.080 beer. Dig out the trusty hydrometer and let us know what you get.

Yeah. Don't read final gravity with your refractometer. The alcohol throws them off.

oh crap ...well never knew that!! lol I'll have to go pick one up then , ill report as soon as i get one. Thanks guys

Update: I just primed the bottles using cane sugar i did a refractometer reading and it dropped to .030 Now i know you said that the refracto wont read accurately but it's all i have atm ...i will buy a hydro for my next batch ( tomorrow in fact Anyway the beer taste great lots of subtle orange flavor with a hint of vanilla and a nice hop back and with out getting good readings i couldn't tell you the alcohol% but i saved a sample and will test tomorrow when i get the hydrometer....not you run of the mill wit i'll keep updating thanks for all the help guys

lol how much do you need to take a reading with a hydrometer...i have about an oz. and a half , hope that's enough!

I doubt that will be enough, normally it takes about 6-8 oz to fill the hydrometer jar tube thing.

Sherpa FE said:

I doubt that will be enough, normally it takes about 6-8 oz to fill the hydrometer jar tube thing.

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That sucks, I'm pretty sure its done fermenting, it is extremely clear for a wit.It has been sitting in the secondary for three weeks...i have no idea what i'm doing but it's great!:rockinrimary is sanitizing along with my mash tun and tools, maybe doing a amber ale tomorrow....pumpkin sounds right