Scuba's Herms Build!

I have a question about the functionality of single tier stands. When you sparge do you use two pumps or do you use gravity to drain the runnings to a vessel off the stand and pump it back up to the kettle? Do you batch sparge (pump in, move pump/turn valves and pump out?

I ended up going two-tier because I couldn't figure out a process for single tier. I also anticipated fly sparging and did not want to pump out of the lauter tun and run the chance of compacting the grain bed. For now I think batch sparging will be my MO. Is compaction still a concern?

I used the predrilled/slotted angle iron bolted together. I'll have to take some pictures for the board's opinions. I was worried about corner bracing but it stiffened up once all the shelves and such were bolted in. I was glad about that because the damn metal, bolts and casters cost me over $200.

If you batch sparge, you can use a single pump to first xfer the sparge water and then xfer the wort. If you want to fly sparge, then 2 pumps are required. A lot of people use pumps to drain the MLT without problems with compacted grain bed.

That makes sense. Thanks.

Lil' Sparky said:

If you batch sparge, you can use a single pump to first xfer the sparge water and then xfer the wort. If you want to fly sparge, then 2 pumps are required. A lot of people use pumps to drain the MLT without problems with compacted grain bed.

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Nuff said. I have 2 pumps because I got a deal on a lot of equipment. I may fly sparge, but batch sparging has been working well enough (it's also quicker). I'll probably batch sparge, and use the second pump to do this: http://www.mrmalty.com/chiller.php

mattreba said:

...and did not want to pump out of the lauter tun and run the chance of compacting the grain bed...

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I plan on milling my grain a bit finer until when the ball valve on my MLT is wide open I get a compacted grain bed. Then I'm going to stirr it up and not crack it open as much. I want to find out where it happens so I can max out efficency. If you have a problem with a compacted grain bed there is NOTHING to worry about. Just stirr, recirc and go again with the knowlege that you have sufficiently milled grains to get the best possible brewhouse efficiency.

Grimsawyer,
Purchase a Dwyer VFB 4" scale flow meter (VFB-81) to monitor the flow and color of the wort from the mash. If you use one on the sparge water you could balance the flow in and out and maintain liquid level in the mash tun. These items are not terribly expensive at $41.50 and are a easy way to set and monitor pump flow from the mash. Here is a link to the Dwer flowmeter pagehttp://www.dwyer-inst.com/htdocs/flow/SeriesVFA-VFBPrice.cfm#CRA

kladue said:

Grimsawyer,
Purchase a Dwyer VFB 4" scale flow meter (VFB-81) to monitor the flow and color of the wort from the mash. If you use one on the sparge water you could balance the flow in and out and maintain liquid level in the mash tun. These items are not terribly expensive at $41.50 and are a easy way to set and monitor pump flow from the mash. Here is a link to the Dwer flowmeter pagehttp://www.dwyer-inst.com/htdocs/flow/SeriesVFA-VFBPrice.cfm#CRA

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Those look pretty interesting, but the specs say they are only rated to 150F. My sparge water is hotter than that. Have you used these at high temps?

Have used the Dwyer flow meters to 180 deg but at 1/2 Psi or less with no problems. They are a valuable tool when trying to work out flow rates to and from the mash tun, and specially when doing high gravity/high percentage wheat to barley weizenbocks. The added benifit is when you recirculate you can watch the wort clear up and monitor the color of the wort as the mashing process proceeds.

SWEET! These need to be mounted upwrite, correct, being it isn't spring loaded. Looks like it relys on gravity to be read right.

Crap. No more pics. My Bad. When I get a night where I'm not watching my newborn son I'll put the pics back in. If you're hardcore about making a wood rig (and can't/don't know how to weld like me), PM me and let me know.....I can definitely give you lessons learned. Remember: WOOD IS GOOD!

ScubaSteve -

Pics restored would definitely be appreciated - I'm interested!
-keith

Hey All-

Got the pics restored. Hopefully this type of build offers a no-weld option (even though welding IS freakin' sweet ). I've since made a few mods, mainly to the janky heat shields....so I will post pics soon.

If I used that concrete impregnated board as a heat shield... could I basically use a sheet of it, cut holes for the keggles to sit in, and use it so protect me working above... then screw some to the inside of the brew rig to protect the boards from burning? I am leaning more toward a direct fired mash tun with a Love controller and solenoid to control the flame, using a March pump to continually circulate the mash.

You could definitely place a full sheet on top to keep the fumes down.., but what I've found is that it traps and intensifies the heat the rig is exposed to. Durarock is fireproof, but it turns cherry red where the fiberglass fibers are heated. It offgasses a lot of nasty fumes too. I'd only use it in the hotspots of the rig. I put a 12" ducting reducer on each banjo....they're big enough to nestle the burner down into and shield the burner from wind. I don't have to turn them up, and it makes them really efficient. They also drastically reduce the radiant heat, so the durarock on the inside boards only gets a bit hot, but it doesn't smoke.

As I read all the posts about blocking off heat from the burners, whether to protect the rig or the brewmaster, I am reminded about a recent thread about carbon monoxide (CO) that I read in another thread. Be careful- carbon monoxide comes from incomplete combustion, and starting to wall off the burner is a step in that direction. Be sure your burners have a completely open path for the combustion air, and that you're using this thing in a well-ventilated space. If a garage or basement -anywhere indoors- I also believe that a CO detector (the Kidde Nighthawk is highly regarded, at $42 on Amazon) is essential.

Any update on how well the durarock is holding up? I may need to apply a bit of this to my metal stand to protect my rubber tires on the bottom tier...

Well....unfortunately I sold the rig before we moved . I will tell you this....I brewed quite a few batches on this rig and the durarock showed no signs of breaking down. You can use it to back a flat surface (wood in this case) but it doesn't bend and doesn't do well around moving parts. You're probably better off protecting your wheels with aluminum sheet or something else. Diamond plate, maybe?

ScubaSteve said:

Well....unfortunately I sold the rig before we moved . I will tell you this....I brewed quite a few batches on this rig and the durarock showed no signs of breaking down. You can use it to back a flat surface (wood in this case) but it doesn't bend and doesn't do well around moving parts. You're probably better off protecting your wheels with aluminum sheet or something else. Diamond plate, maybe?

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I was planning on installing a flat square of it across the opening, but only the part around the lowest tier.

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Depending on the stability of the rock, I wasn't going to back it with anything, just mount it underneath with either several small brackets. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't something that was only going to last for a few brews before it burned out.

I think if you install an aluminum wind shield around the burner, you'll also block most of the radiant heat. You should be pretty good with that. Durarock is pretty cheap.....I bought a 3' x 4' sheet for around $12.....you can also get tiles...maybe you should look into that. Just ask for fireproof backer board, and the clerk should be able to point you there.

Cool I'll look further into it and get back to you!

Craig5_12 said:

You can use the High-Temp BBQ paint, it's flat black so it's not real pretty, but I don't think you'll have a problem with it coming off. I sprayed it on the bottom of my MLT, HLT and BK and haven't had any problems at all. It's nice having them black because they're absorbing heat instead of reflecting now.

Thanks for the link on the burners too, when I move (this weekend) my natural gas burners will no longer be used and I'll need to make the switch to propane...and these puppies were just what I was looking for!

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You can also use engine enamel. We sell it at work and it is made to withstand the heat incurred by red hot headers so i dont think a propane burner is gonna be a problem. You have alot more colors to choose from as well.

Stand by for Rig Build #2!!!

ScubaSteve, that is a very sexy looking brew stand! I read through the entire thread drooling every time I came across a picture. What I didn't see was what type of wood you used and how you sealed it. Is that non-treated pine with a couple of coats of stain and lacquer? I am also planning on building a brew stand out of wood and was thinking that I wanted to use something more durable then pine. Mostly because I don't want to have little dings and scratches everywhere. Can't wait to see the second build!

Jared311 said:

ScubaSteve, that is a very sexy looking brew stand! I read through the entire thread drooling every time I came across a picture. What I didn't see was what type of wood you used and how you sealed it. Is that non-treated pine with a couple of coats of stain and lacquer? I am also planning on building a brew stand out of wood and was thinking that I wanted to use something more durable then pine. Mostly because I don't want to have little dings and scratches everywhere. Can't wait to see the second build!

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I think I used Doug Fir. It was a step up from the lowest grade, mainly because I wanted the boards to be straight. If you inspect the boards for cracks, warping, rotting, etc. you'll probably be fine with pine/fir. I sanded all the wood and used a pre-stain (it's porous wood). Then, I just used one-step polyurethane stain (antique walnut, I think). It provided good water resistance.

FWIW, you'll probably have dings/scratches everywhere, no matter what wood you use....and the price gets pretty steep for good wood , not to mention it's much heavier.

Hey ScubaSteve - I just came across this thread out of the blue. Nice job on building a beautiful rig. I'm definitely curious to see your rig #2. Out of curiosity, were you running all your burners off one propane tank and regulator? If so, did you have any way to control the flow to each burner individually? I thought I saw valves on each unit but I couldn't tell if it was the propane line.

First of all, if you aren't sure about plumbing propane, DON'T DO IT. I did a lot of research before building this part of the project, mainly because one mistake could cost me my life. I used 1/2" black steel pipe for the propane. I used a 20 psi reg with that, and a gas-rated ball valve for each burner. I made sure to use flare fittings with everything, as propane is nothing to mess with. If you look again at the pics, it's a pretty simple manifold, where the pipe goes from each tee to a valve and then an elbow and through the front piece of wood.

If I could do it again, I'd use a needle valve for each burner. WAY better control, especially with the banjos.

FWIW, the 20 PSI reg and 1/2" pipe supplied more than enough propane to keep all three burners going. I never had to do more than 2 burners at once though, so it was never a problem.

ScubaSteve said:

Mine's kind of an upside down "L". I thought about having the sides come up in an "L" so as to trap the keg in a kind of shelf, but I didn't want the steel that far out to the sides because of weight distribution. I like the "upside down L" because the lower (vertical) portion provides a nice, stiff spine that resists bending. Only time will tell though! Thanks guys! More pics to come! I the meantime, I welcome any input/ideas!

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I saw the discussion here about angle orientation, and being a mechanical engineer I became curious what the best configuration actually was. I realize, scuba steve, that your rig has come and gone but thought this might be useful for other builders out there. I created a computer model and loaded the angle in the three different styles, "L", upside down "L", and chevron "^". I assumed a general purpose steel and a load of 35 pounds per angle, (I know it could be heavier but we're just comparing here).

As it turned out the chevron performed the best by deflecting the least. Also, because of the symmetry of the chevron shape under the loading config it deformed only straight down, the "L's" deformed to the side some. I also looked to see if the V opened up at all from the load and didn't see anything that would make you worry.

Well, that was a good way to spend time while drinking a few pints. Maybe it'll be useful for someone building out there.

rtichota said:

As it turned out the chevron performed the best by deflecting the least.

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That's pretty cool that you took the time to do that, and that you even know how to calculate those factors. I'm going to be recreating this design sometime soon. I can see your point on it being the most structurally sound option but I think I might still go with the inverted L for a flatter surface area that has more friction since I want to make sure the kegs don't go anywhere and am not going to have brackets for them to sit in. Maybe I'll get some beefy angle iron to ensure it's not a problem. Anyway, thanks for the input. Cheers.

Hey guys,

I was wondering if anyone else as build this stand and if they have the dimensions/plans or any tips for it. I already sent ScubaSteve a pm about it but any possible input would be great. I decided to go the wood route because a buddy of mine is a carpenter and says he'd build me a stand for free.

Thanks,

Dan

BoulderBayBrewing said:

Hey guys,

I was wondering if anyone else as build this stand and if they have the dimensions/plans or any tips for it. I already sent ScubaSteve a pm about it but any possible input would be great. I decided to go the wood route because a buddy of mine is a carpenter and says he'd build me a stand for free.

Thanks,

Dan

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I just built mine but I've still got a few days of work to finish it up. If you can wait a week I'll have pictures to post. Basically my table is roughly 72" long, 33" wide, and about 33" tall with the casters. Inside I have 30" 14-gauge square steel tubing mounted on notched 1x3s to support the keggles. When I'm not brewing, I have a table top that folds up from a vertical wind sheer 270* to sit flush on top to use as a utility table, with storage for the keggles underneath. Anyway, check back for pictures if you're interested in seeing the finished table.

explosivebeer said:

I just built mine but I've still got a few days of work to finish it up. If you can wait a week I'll have pictures to post. Basically my table is roughly 72" long, 33" wide, and about 33" tall with the casters. Inside I have 30" 14-gauge square steel tubing mounted on notched 1x3s to support the keggles. When I'm not brewing, I have a table top that folds up from a vertical wind sheer 270* to sit flush on top to use as a utility table, with storage for the keggles underneath. Anyway, check back for pictures if you're interested in seeing the finished table.

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That would be great! I can wait, we are still in the planning phase, probably won't build the stand for a few weeks yet.

Thanks!

BoulderBayBrewing said:

That would be great! I can wait, we are still in the planning phase, probably won't build the stand for a few weeks yet.

Thanks!

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Ok I'll let you know. I'm hoping to finish it this weekend and hopefully have time to take it for its maiden voyage. We'll see.

Hey B3, I posted pictures in my gallery if you want to check them out. I haven't had a chance to draw up a schematic yet but I'm sure you can piece it together.

Building from the inside out, I used 30" 14-gauge steel tubing as the crossbars to hold the keggles and burners. I braced that with notched lengths of 3/4" wood. The frame is 4x4s and 2x6s attached with Kreg screws. There are triangle supports under the 4x4s that the casters attach to. I ran a couple pieces of wood length-wise on top of the triangle supports and then the eight 1x6" slats to form the bottom that act as storage but will also allow spills to drain through. On top of that, I got a nice 3/4" sheet of plywood, ripped it to 33", then cut that section to fit the length of the table (about 72") to form the table top. I used the remaining 33"x24" piece as the side table which is braced with two more of those 30" steel tubing pieces.

Anyway, I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any specific questions. I've still got to mount the pump, wire the electical, channel the natural gas, and build a ping pong table top to rest on top. But it's getting closer. Good luck with your build.

Thanks ex! Thats a sweet looking stand. I'll have to post some pictures of ours when we get it finished. Thanks for all the info. You'll have to let me know how the first brew day goes!

Wow, that's a really sharp looking stand! I hope it brings you many a successful brew day. I think you'll find the side table comes in really handy.....I know I did.

Inspired to go build.............

Hey Scuba Steve and ExplosiveBeer,

I was wondering if you could give me some advice in building my own wood rig. I really like a lot about your old setup and wanted to pick your brain if you are open to that...

What were the dimensions that you went with?

If you built it a second time would you change the dimensions? (for heat avoidance, comfort of brewing...)

Did the angle iron ever bend under the heat?

Did the angle iron ever transfer so much heat to the wood frame to cause it to smolder in the notches?

Thanks so much for your advise, your design is so beautiful. Imitation is the highest form of flattery as they say...

John
GlassblowersBrew

GlassblowersBrew said:

Hey Scuba Steve and ExplosiveBeer,

I was wondering if you could give me some advice in building my own wood rig. I really like a lot about your old setup and wanted to pick your brain if you are open to that...

What were the dimensions that you went with?

If you built it a second time would you change the dimensions? (for heat avoidance, comfort of brewing...)

Did the angle iron ever bend under the heat?

Did the angle iron ever transfer so much heat to the wood frame to cause it to smolder in the notches?

Thanks so much for your advise, your design is so beautiful. Imitation is the highest form of flattery as they say...

John
GlassblowersBrew

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Hey John,

My stand is 33" wide, about 30" tall, and has recessed casters under the corner supports at the lower joints. The total height off the ground is only about 34", which causes problems when the table top is folded down and you have to roll the table over raised surfaces (I take it in and out of the house for brewing and the top has to be folded up or else it hits the raised door jam). The table doesn't pick up too much heat from the wide burners I have but I wouldn't want to keep my hand between the flame and the table for too long either.

For height, it's about as tall as I'd want it and I'm 6'2". I wanted to make sure I had enough room between the horizontal boards to slide the keggles in and out. That, in combination with the fact that I used 2x6s instead of 2x4s for the structure forced the height up. But if you change either of those, it should be better.

I haven't pulled the angle iron out of the slots I cut for it but I'm not too concerned about it. I'm still planning on drilling small holes in the bottom of the keggle supports in case pressure builds up in them but it hasn't been an issue yet. And the square tubing I used hasn't compromised at all with the weight and heat. The industrial supply company cut it perfectly to size and had it ready to go in a day or two. I think the gauge was 14 and I had 10 30" pieces which ran about $30.

Anyway, I've got to run but wanted to give you a few details to get you going. Good luck on the build.

-Brandon

Brandon,

Thanks so much for your info. Im gonna read it over a few times to absorb it and apply it to my plan. I am planning on using it as a 2 tier for now so I don't have to buy a 2nd pump to save a little money, so I am kinda adapting the one tier. I figure when I get a second pump I can use it as a one tier, until then I will be mashing/sparging at ground level. I don't know if this is going to cause any problems but it seems to me that using gravity for that step isnt going to slow me down much or add much labor. Doing ten gallon batches with all gravity got old after the first brewing.

I feel like the lumber needed to make this is the most economical way to build a rig and in my opinion the most hansom. As long as it is fire safe and works well, who can complain? Thanks again for your help.

BTW, I really like the flip top table idea. It seems to be a great surface to ferment on or use for other tinkering projects. I plan on storing in the garage, Im sure it will be piled up with fun projects in no time......

GlassblowersBrew said:

Brandon,

Thanks so much for your info. Im gonna read it over a few times to absorb it and apply it to my plan. I am planning on using it as a 2 tier for now so I don't have to buy a 2nd pump to save a little money, so I am kinda adapting the one tier. I figure when I get a second pump I can use it as a one tier, until then I will be mashing/sparging at ground level. I don't know if this is going to cause any problems but it seems to me that using gravity for that step isnt going to slow me down much or add much labor. Doing ten gallon batches with all gravity got old after the first brewing.

I feel like the lumber needed to make this is the most economical way to build a rig and in my opinion the most hansom. As long as it is fire safe and works well, who can complain? Thanks again for your help.

BTW, I really like the flip top table idea. It seems to be a great surface to ferment on or use for other tinkering projects. I plan on storing in the garage, Im sure it will be piled up with fun projects in no time......

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I'm glad to help. Just let me know if you have any other questions, either on this thread or in a PM. The flip-top table also serves as a mildly effective wind shear for me when I was brewing outside. I'm moving it to a new place so I won't need it for that anymore but it is nice to have mobile counter space when it's not in use.

Installing the hinges for the table top is a little tricky. I recessed the table top side into the plywood which is somewhat problematic since you have to chip through layers of plywood rather than a consistent wood texture. A router might have been a better option if you can set up a fence for it. Also, I couldn't find any hinges that had good clearance. I want to say the distance from the joint of the hinge to the first hole was only an 1/8th over the size of plywood I used for the table top, which means that they don't have a lot of grip into the rail where they're attached to the table. But it's held so far and seems to be sturdy enough, though I haven't slammed it down hard yet.

Anyway, good luck with everything. Post some pictures for us some pictures when you get it put together.

-Brandon