Gelatin didnt work..

I tried adding gelatin for the first time to a already carbed keg that just wont clear up. Its a smoked amber, that is as cloudy as a hefe. Sounded like gelatin would clear it up in a couple days. I added it 5 days ago to a cold keg, and it looks exactly the same now as it did before. How does the stuff not work? I added it warm, just dumped it in, didn't stir it.

I read threw a ton of threads on here, not sure if i found even one that said gelatin didnt work. Most make it out to be the cure all for clearing your beer in a couple days. I added my gelatin via the same exact process covered a bunch of times in these forums.

You did bloom the gelatin, right?

And, how cold is a "cold keg"?

heated water, then mixed it in? Or just dumped the packet in? There is also only so much it can do. How longs it been? I've also never added it post carbonation. Maybe that has an effect. I cool my beer, add gelatin for a few days and then rack. Give it a few more days in the kegerator without moving anything around and I bet you'll notice it starting to clear. My Oatmeal Pale Ale took a week or so to start clearing even after gelatin.

for the record, i've used it on a carbed keg at 42F and it worked well (within 3 days).

Its been 5 days for mine, with no difference. I added gelatin to a 38 degree keg. Used 1/2 packet Knox, added to 1 cup cold water, let "bloom" for 20 min. or so. Then heated it up, stirred it a bunch to dissolve it. Didnt boil it. Let it cool a bit, then dumped it in the keg. I just dont get how it could NOT work?

incutrav said:

Its been 5 days for mine, with no difference. I added gelatin to a 38 degree keg. Used 1/2 packet Knox, added to 1 cup cold water, let "bloom" for 20 min. or so. Then heated it up, stirred it a bunch to dissolve it. Didnt boil it. Let it cool a bit, then dumped it in the keg. I just dont get how it could NOT work?

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And how long after you dumped it in the keg did you chill the keg?

It's not instant.

Keg has been in there for a couple weeks before i added the gelatin. Sure doesnt appear it should take over 5 days to clear up

incutrav said:

Its a smoked amber, that is as cloudy as a hefe.

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Gelatin isn't a silver bullet. It works well for low to moderately cloudy beer that is suffering from protein haze.

If the beer is super cloudy, it may be starch haze, which doesn't clear well with gelatin.

lamarguy said:

Gelatin isn't a silver bullet. It works well for low to moderately cloudy beer that is suffering from protein haze.

If the beer is super cloudy, it may be starch haze, which doesn't clear well with gelatin.

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Its not super cloudy by any means, you can see some light threw it. I can understand it might not work, I just find it hard to believe that in the hundreds of posts i have ran across on Gelatin, not a one said that it didnt clear their beer up. Starch? Maybe if i had a bunch of oats/rye in it. Doubt i got start extracted from RauchMalt, and Cherrywood.

incutrav said:

I just find it hard to believe that in the hundreds of posts i have ran across on Gelatin, not a one said that it didnt clear their beer up.

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would it make you feel any better if I told you that I used it once and it didnt clear my beer up? Its true. The first time I used it, nothing. And I swore the stuff off.

But fortunately for me I tried it again and I was amazed. And its worked every time since then. I dont have any answers for you though...

incutrav said:

Its not super cloudy by any means, you can see some light threw it.

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We can only go by what you tell us. You stated "cloudy as a hefe".

incutrav said:

Starch? Maybe if i had a bunch of oats/rye in it. Doubt i got starch extracted from RauchMalt, and Cherrywood.

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Regardless of the source, excess starch is in almost every batch of beer (unless you achieve 100% conversion). At the homebrew level, mash conversion is often less than 100%, which, depending on how much starch is remaining, can cause a permanent haze in the beer.

IIRC, gelatin does not do much for chill haze, it works just to drop yeast and bigger particulates.

incutrav said:

Keg has been in there for a couple weeks before i added the gelatin. Sure doesnt appear it should take over 5 days to clear up

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Yes, Yes, Yes, But did you chill the keg AFTER you added the Gelatin?

Ever see Jello set-up at room temp?

Indeed, once my kegs hit the kegerator, there they stay. I probably should post a pic of what it looks like, cause im exactly sure what 'chill haze' looks like

Well how do ya like that? 7 days after adding gelatin and I have clear beer. Not crystal clear, but clear enough that you can see the TV threw it. My smoked amber seems a lot less smokey now, the gelatin wouldnt effect the aroma/base of the beer would it? Could be my pallate just got used to the smokiness too, but it sure seemed WAY smokier when it was pouring cloudy.

IMO, yes. You are precipitating a number of things from suspension and flavor can change.

That would appear to be a HUGE drawback then. Anyone have any experience w/ the flavor of your beer changing after adding gelatin?

I added gelatin twice to my keg, maybe that is what did it.

I wouldn't call it a huge drawback and I'm only surmising that this could account for the difference in smokiness in your beer. I don't know that for a fact.

A few months back I had a beer that was quite astringent, I suspect from a high sparge pH resulting in high levels of polyphenols/tannins in the beer. Gelatin had a dramatic impact on this beer, not only in clarity, but in smooting out its character by precipitating the polyphenols.

When you kick the keg, taste the gel that's stuck to the sides and bottom of the keg. Your answer will be there....if you would, post your findings in this thread, cause I'm interested to hear what you find.

It is a big drawback, if it does actually indeed strip your beer of flavor.In my experience so far, the smoke aspect tends to hang on to everything it touches. Not sure tasting the gelatin will give me much of an answer, as Im sure it will be smokey. Ill be adding gelatin to an IPA in a few days when i rack to keg, ill have to see how that one goes.

I find gelatin to work quite well, but it will not perform miracles, nor will it remove chill haze. I find it works best when using a secondary and when bring the beer down a nice cold temperature. I tried it once using just the primary and it wasn't very effective.

incutrav said:

It is a big drawback, if it does actually indeed strip your beer of flavor.In my experience so far, the smoke aspect tends to hang on to everything it touches. Not sure tasting the gelatin will give me much of an answer, as Im sure it will be smokey. Ill be adding gelatin to an IPA in a few days when i rack to keg, ill have to see how that one goes.

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Does smokey flavor in the beer tend to 'mellow out' with time, as some other flavors do?

Simply asking because it could be that the beer is simply mellowing with age, and not a result of the gelatin.

The idea of tasting the gelatin in the bottom of the keg seems sound to me. If the gelatin is changing the flavor, it would be because it is absorbing the particles that are causing it, in which case, the gelatin in the bottom of your keg should taste significantly more smokey than the beer.

my point was that if the gel is a lot smokier tasting than the same amount of beer, the gel stripped it out of suspension. wasn't that your original question?

edit: didn't see what dorklord posted before penning this.....so, what he said.

BuzzCraft said:

my point was that if the gel is a lot smokier tasting than the same amount of beer, the gel stripped it out of suspension. wasn't that your original question?

edit: didn't see what dorklord posted before penning this.....so, what he said.

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Like I say, still not sure tasting the gelatin will tell me much. I say this because when I saved the yeast cake from this batch, the yeast smelled way more smokey the the actual beer did. Only real way to find out would be to brew the exact recipe and dont add gelatin and see what happens.

I've only used gelatin once, but I know Vinnie Cilurzo of Russian River uses it at his brewpub, and I don't think Pliny the Elder has any problems with the gelatin stripping away flavor. Vinnie is PARANOID about anything affecting hop flavor in his beers, I don't think he would use it if it did.

It didn't work for me, but I did notice after my beer warms up in the glass to around room temp, it gets perfectly clear. So, it is obvious that gelatin does not work for chill haze.