so. im getting tired waiting a month in between my small mr beer batches, and am ready to move into something a little more complex, creative, and more than 2.5 gallons at a time. i have no idea what my next step should be in the hb process. any advice would be helpful.
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What have you done so far? What are you comfortable with in terms of expansion?
If your main goal is to make larger batches, you can either get more Mr Beer fermenters and split batches or you can get a larger kit.
If you've only done prehopped kits, you can continue doing prehopped kits in larger sizes. You can also take a step up and buy unhopped extract and do your own hop boil. You can also add steeping grains to either of those. Midwest has kits that include extract, hops, steeping grains and yeast, along with complete instructions on how to brew them. I'm sure other brew stores have the same things, but I bought one once from Midwest, so I know they do (most of the time, I make up my own recipes rather than use a kit). Groupon frequently has deals for Midwest for a full 5 gallon kit (brewing bucket, bottling bucket, extract kit, bottle caps, hydrometer) for $60-$65.
If you want to get a little more adventurous than extract with steeping grains, you can do a partial mash. Personally, I don't see that as much more difficult than steeping. Temperature ranges are more important and so is teh amount of water you use, but it's not that much more involved.
The next step beyond that is all grain, but that will probably entail buying some additional equipment.
firebirdude
Well-Known Member
This might be a little advanced for this thread, but I'm looking to move into an all-grain setup, using the Mr Beer kegs as fermenters. I simply don't drink enough beer to warrant brewing 5 gallons at a time. Add in the fact I really like brewing new beers and I'd have a lot of beer laying around real quick. Never a bad thing, but I'd rather just do 2.5 gallon batches. It would help a touch with batch costs and I have a medium sized stock pot already (~3 gallon).
I've converted a cooler into a mash ton. So the quick and dirty method would be:
-Add grains to cooler
-Add ~1 1/4 quarts of water/lb of grain strike water roughly ~5 degree warmer than desired temp
-Stir and allow to soak for 60 minutes
-Recirculate a bit of the wort until no grains are coming out
-Drain wort into boil kettle
-Add sparge water (how do I know how much?) and perform same drainage techniques
-Bring wort to a boil and allow evaporation to occur
----Here's where I get a little cloudy. How do I know how much I should allow to evaporate? I'm looking for a certain OG, which should be calculated by BeerSmith, correct?
-Lower temp to ~150 area and begin to add hops as desired
-Flame out
-Arrirate wort and transfer to Mr Beer keg
-Pitch yeast and stir vigorously
I've played with BeerSmith for a few hours. I understand most of the vocabulary, but it's just so much to take in for a newbie. Doesn't seem to convert the recipes to 2.5 gallon batch sizes very easily. I don't know....Help?
I've converted a cooler into a mash ton. So the quick and dirty method would be:
-Add grains to cooler
-Add ~1 1/4 quarts of water/lb of grain strike water roughly ~5 degree warmer than desired temp
-Stir and allow to soak for 60 minutes
-Recirculate a bit of the wort until no grains are coming out
-Drain wort into boil kettle
-Add sparge water (how do I know how much?) and perform same drainage techniques
-Bring wort to a boil and allow evaporation to occur
----Here's where I get a little cloudy. How do I know how much I should allow to evaporate? I'm looking for a certain OG, which should be calculated by BeerSmith, correct?
-Lower temp to ~150 area and begin to add hops as desired
-Flame out
-Arrirate wort and transfer to Mr Beer keg
-Pitch yeast and stir vigorously
I've played with BeerSmith for a few hours. I understand most of the vocabulary, but it's just so much to take in for a newbie. Doesn't seem to convert the recipes to 2.5 gallon batch sizes very easily. I don't know....Help?
Going to brew a Pilsner Lager in a few days (first lager); any advice on fermenting temp would be great. Plus I was going to buy a second fermenter. I know I could buy another MB keg but wanted to look into a carboy or something similar to use as another. Would a large Gatorade style cooler work?
I've never brewed a true lager, so I'll let somebody who has done that answer that part of the question.
I'm not sure what a Gatorade style cooler is. If it's like a large Gatorade bottle, I don't think that would work. I don't think the plastic would hold up. If you're talking about the large insulated coolers (like what they have at football games and so forth), that plastic might hold up to fermentation, but I think there are better choices. For one thing, I think it would be difficult to convert one of those into a fermenter. For another, those are relatively expensive.
Some bakeries have food grade white buckets with lids that you can repurpose. You'd need to drill a hole in the lid and get an airlock and grommet, but that wouldn't be too difficult. If you can't find a bucket for free, WalMart sells them for a couple of bucks.
firebirdude
Well-Known Member
Those large orange drink coolers are what people turn into mash tuns. It'd be a waste as a fermenter. A simple bucket with an added air lock works fine. Many people use the orange Homer buckets from Home Depot. I've even met someone who doesn't add the air lock, just sets the lid on loosely. Says he's brewed quite a few times like that without problems. Bakery icing comes in large buckets that they usually give out for free. So check that out if you're really strapped for cash.
But if you're looking to get a little serious, a better bottle carboy is still pretty cheap. Though for these batch sizes, I really don't see the point in spending big money on large fermenters. If your brewing something that is going to ferment for months, then I might see the purpose of using glass over plastic. Outside that, I guess I just don't see the point of carboys/better bottles. A cheap bucket works just as well.
But if you're looking to get a little serious, a better bottle carboy is still pretty cheap. Though for these batch sizes, I really don't see the point in spending big money on large fermenters. If your brewing something that is going to ferment for months, then I might see the purpose of using glass over plastic. Outside that, I guess I just don't see the point of carboys/better bottles. A cheap bucket works just as well.
I've been thinking about heading this way too, though I'll probably start w/ a simplified partial mash or BIAB method (no mash tun needed).
The time you need to boil for evaporation is going to depend on what your pre-boil volume is (Mash infusion volume + sparge volume - grain adsorption). Some people choose a sparge volume to hit a constant pre-boil volume (ie 7.5 gal for a 5 gal batch); others sparge according to the grain bill, and boil however long it takes to hit their desired volume. This is something I've found you won't get an answer for on the forums; you can read about other peoples' experiences, but you'll have to try on your own to decide how you like to go about things.
Just to note, a 3-gal pot is probably not going to be big enough to brew a 2.5-gal all-grain batch. You're going to wind up with at least 3 gallons of liquid pre-boil, and probably more if you do anything like a proper sparge. You might be stuck with a partial mash until you upgrade your pot. PM can be nice anyway, as you won't need to absolutely coordinate your mash/sparge volumes and boil time to hit your exact batch volume, since you're going to be adding some extract & water anyhow.
Your hop additions are going to need to take place during the boil, not after it at a lower temp. Typical additions may happen with 60, 30, 15, 10 & 5 minutes left in the boil (which means you need to know how long you're going to boil for from the start), or at flame out.
firebirdude
Well-Known Member
Yeah. I was kind of worried my stock pot might not be big enough. Any chance on just not doing a full boil? Adding top off water directly to the keg?
I know about the hop additions. Guess I thought you shouldn't subject hops to the 200+ degree heat of a rolling boil?
I know about the hop additions. Guess I thought you shouldn't subject hops to the 200+ degree heat of a rolling boil?
fbd: I don't really have the personal experience to advise you on how a partial-volume all-grain boil would work out; someone else will have to comment on that, sorry.
As for the hops, that rolling boil is precisely how you extract the bittering compounds from them. Yes, it does drive off the aromatics to boil them for ~60 minutes. This is why you add additional hops near/at the end of the boil, which contribute little to bittering, but provide the hop aroma and flavor.
As for the hops, that rolling boil is precisely how you extract the bittering compounds from them. Yes, it does drive off the aromatics to boil them for ~60 minutes. This is why you add additional hops near/at the end of the boil, which contribute little to bittering, but provide the hop aroma and flavor.
firebirdude
Well-Known Member
I was under the impression you didn't want to actually "boil" them, but rather keep them around 150-155 degrees? Same with the grain. Only "boil" the wort after the grain has been removed.
hwilshusen
Well-Known Member
Yesterday I opened my first bottle of my first Mr Beer home brew. WCA. It was in the LBK for 20 days (fg 1.012), the bottle for 7 days and the frig for 1. I got 15 16 oz bottles and 2 12 oz bottles. The 2 12 oz bottles are clear glass (New Castle) and you can read through them. Upon pouring into a glass nice head with good retention. Good co2 saturation of the beer. The beer has a "sharp" taste to it so more conditioning is in order. next week I'll crack open the other 12 ouncer to compare.
No, you don't want to boil grains.
Yes, you want (need) to boil hops if you want bitterness and flavor from them.
Here is a great online book to help with understanding the different steps in brewing: http://www.howtobrew.com/intro.html
I think a 3 gallon pot would be fine. I just used a 4 gallon one and had plenty of room. You would have to sparge into a different (smaller) pot, but then add the run off into the 3-gallon one.
As for the ratio of grist (grain) to water, this is from How to Brew (online edition):
The grist/water ratio is another factor influencing the performance of the mash. A thinner mash of >2 quarts of water per pound of grain dilutes the relative concentration of the enzymes, slowing the conversion, but ultimately leads to a more fermentable mash because the enzymes are not inhibited by a high concentration of sugars. A stiff mash of <1.25 quarts of water per pound is better for protein breakdown, and results in a faster overall starch conversion, but the resultant sugars are less fermentable and will result in a sweeter, maltier beer. A thicker mash is more gentle to the enzymes because of the lower heat capacity of grain compared to water. A thick mash is better for multirest mashes because the enzymes are not denatured as quickly by a rise in temperature.
I just did my first all grain: an oatmeal stout in a Mr. Beer. I aggree that the 2.5 gallon size is perfect for me. I ended up mashing in the boil pot on the stove and in the oven: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-stovetop-all-grain-brewing-pics-90132/
Justibone
Well-Known Member
I think a 3 gallon pot is fine as well, especially if you plan on adding more water at the end (after the boil). Some notes about topping off:
1) IBU calculators will be *slightly* off.
2) Make sure the added water is sanitary.
3) It speeds your cooldown.
4) Stir before taking the OG.
5) Some people freeze sanitary water as ice, add it in the boil at the end, and have a significantly speedier cooldown. Since immersion chillers work best at the beginning of the cooldown (when the wort is very hot), you can use one of those first and then add the ice to help you get down those last few degrees towards the end.
If you don't use a surfactant (Fermcap-S or similar) to control the boil, then putting too much wort in too small a pot is definitely a recipe for disaster. Cleaning up boilovers is notoriously difficult.
looneybomber
Well-Known Member
I have their imperial pilsner brewing in my garage right now. It holds a pretty consistent 51deg all day right now. Yesterday I opened the garage door to warm it up in there some because I didn't see any signs of fermentation going on. It got up to 54deg, but was back down to 52 this morning. I'll take a look at it tonight when I get off work.
First, I want to say thanks for your input through this thread. It is really helpful.
Can you explain or point to why this is? Will the IBU be lower?
Thanks again.
Can you explain or point to why this is? Will the IBU be lower?
Thanks again.
Sucks to have to work on a Saturday. I do you think that is a good temp? I know with a lager you wont see action like you do with ale yeast, but I also have that seasonal Imperial Pilsner waiting to be thrown in the fermenter keg.
On the 2nd fermenter topic though, would a paint bucket style container with lid work to transfer primary into? Also, I heard about maybe just transferring the primary after the trub has settled into the second, then cleaning the original keg from the trub and siphoning the "beer" back to continue to ferment, thoughts?
looneybomber
Well-Known Member
Well, I work Sat and Sun because I go to school Mon-Fri. When I read up on the Safbrew 34/70 used in the Imp pilsner kit, it said the temp range should be 49-58 and since I added a half bag of "booster" I figured I wanted a tiny bit warmer temperature to help the yeast out. Maybe it's nothing to worry about?
Also, I'll have this brew, just like my others, sit in the primary (Mr Beer) fermenter for ~3wks and then bottle it.
Also, I'll have this brew, just like my others, sit in the primary (Mr Beer) fermenter for ~3wks and then bottle it.
The_Professor
Well-Known Member
Yeah, a lager yeast at the correct temps will not always have krausen like an ale yeast.
Checking the gravity is the best way to know if all is well. If you don't have a hydrometer or refractometer you can check visually. A shotglass sample should be really cloudy within a few days to a week. If it is crystal clear and really sweet after a week then it is not fermenting.
I have 2 brews down and a third in primary right now. I've already upgraded from the mr beer, but I have some leftover mr beer ingredients. I have a can of the whispering wheat and 3 packs of booster. I want to try some type of wheat beer, but using additional steeping grains and hops.
If I use the HME and 1 to 2 packs of booster, what type and how much of grains and hops should I use for a 2-2.5 gallon wheat beer? Should I get additional malt extract as well?
If I use the HME and 1 to 2 packs of booster, what type and how much of grains and hops should I use for a 2-2.5 gallon wheat beer? Should I get additional malt extract as well?
I'd never use more than one booster in a Mr beer batch, and I always make sure I have at least two cans of malt (or the equivalent).
looneybomber
Well-Known Member
Hang on to MrBeer though. It'll be a handy little fermenter when testing recipes and you don't want to risk ruining 5gal of beer. That's my game plan at least.
Wheat beers should not be heavy or alcoholy. If you start adding too much stuff in, you'll end up with an imperial wheat...but that just might rock? What about adding some pilsner LME instead of grains?
Justibone
Well-Known Member
I can't explain it. I've just read in other threads that the proportion of sugars to alpha acids (bittering agents) in hops is relevant to the number of IBUs extracted. Since you can't detect less than a 6 IBU difference, it's not generally of concern to anyone but 1) commercial brewers and 2) large batch brewers.
Justibone
Well-Known Member
Don't use the booster in a wheat beer. Booster dries beers out, so unless you were going to spring for Amarillo aroma hops and try for a WPA like Gumballhead, shelf the booster (and use it for carbing your 5gal batches).
Wheat malt is already between 35-60% barley malt. If you add too much more barley sugar, there won't be enough wheat to really notice a difference.
If you want a true wheat beer (weizenbier), you should use a true weizen yeast and ferment at cool temps to get the best tasting beer you can. Use a bit of grain mainly to get extra head. Don't get dark grain, though, because the color is supposed to be light.
You can always go for a Blue-Moon kinda-sorta feel, just by adding barley malt extract and a bit of sanitized orange peel, along with a touch (2-6 oz.) of Crystal 20 or Crystal 60. You'll be experimenting, but I've never gone wrong by adding a bit of sweetness with some Crystal malt. It won't be Blue Moon, but it will be nice and girly like Blue Moon.
It's only a 2.5 gallon batch, and it's leftovers, so just experiment.
Justibone said:
Exactly what I was going for. My first, off the cuff recipe in the beer so it doesn't really matter too much. If I end up with anything the SWMBO likes at all, then it's a win for me. If I actually like it, then that's a bonus.
So, no booster then, some pilsner LME, crystal 20 or wheat malt, and Amarillo hops? I think an oz of hops oughtta do it, right? Is 2 pounds about right on the LME? How bout the grains?
Just primed my WCPA, very first brew
gotta wait a week or two, then stick them in the fridge for two days, then drink I'm not going to like bottling much longer, going to upgrade to 5 gal and force carb
petey_c
Senior Member
TheG3RG, I'd wait about 3 weeks, then pop 'em in the fridge. Waiting for your first brew can be excruciatingly painful. It hurts now to have to wait sometimes...
petey_c said:
Yes it already is extremely hard. I marked my last bottle I filled up, which has the most settlement in it. So that one will be my test one after maybe the first week but most likely two. Then the rest I probably should wait until 3 weeks...
Just primed my WCPA, very first brew
I'm not going to like bottling much longer, going to upgrade to 5 gal and force carb
Yup... started with Mr. Beer on January 1st, Christmas present.
Just bottled a 5gallon batch on Friday, and even using larger bottles (1L swingtops and 22oz bombers), it just tedious.
Bought the first of my kegging equipment today
Stokes_
Active Member
Question:
Would it be better for me to start out with Mr. Beer, or just go ahead and get a more advanced kit?
Would it be better for me to start out with Mr. Beer, or just go ahead and get a more advanced kit?
Stokes_
Active Member
Thanks for prompt response. I can make very good beer with it then?
Stokes_ said:
Mr beer kit supplied brew will probably be drinkable. If you like making brew after this first experience , start investing in better equipment and try better quality kits. Not Mr beer kits. The Mr beer fermented and bottles can be reused.
Stokes_
Active Member
Haha. I like the 'will probably be drinkable' response. What is the biggest difference between a Mr. Beer kit and other kits?
Yes. You can make excellent beer with the Mr beer fermenter. You can do anything with a Mr beer kit than you can with a 5 gallon kit except make 5 gallons at a time.
Stokes_
Active Member
^It's probably a good thing that I wouldn't be able to make more than 5 gallons at a time, being that I haven't brewed anything in my life, LOL.
The biggest difference between the Mr. Beer ingredient kits and most others, is that it uses Hopped Malt Extract. Most others do not- but there are a few.
It's very simple to make them, but the hop flavors seem a bit more one-dimensional than when you use fresh hops. However, I find many of their brews are perfectly drinkable, tasty beer.
I'd had better, but I've also spent more on terrible supposed craft beers too damned many times to count.
I bought a half dozen extra Mr. Beer kits on woot.com's sales a few weeks back, I'm using all of the ingredient kits that came with, and all the extra bottles, plus I have a crap-ton of extra mini fermenters- which would also serve well as punch coolers at a backyard barbecue.
Watch for them to go on sale, I picked them up at $20 apiece, the bottles and malt are worth that.
It's very simple to make them, but the hop flavors seem a bit more one-dimensional than when you use fresh hops. However, I find many of their brews are perfectly drinkable, tasty beer.
I'd had better, but I've also spent more on terrible supposed craft beers too damned many times to count.
I bought a half dozen extra Mr. Beer kits on woot.com's sales a few weeks back, I'm using all of the ingredient kits that came with, and all the extra bottles, plus I have a crap-ton of extra mini fermenters- which would also serve well as punch coolers at a backyard barbecue.
Watch for them to go on sale, I picked them up at $20 apiece, the bottles and malt are worth that.
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