complex calculation!!!HELP!!!

Okay so here goes my question:

I was discussing on another thread about pulling some of the first runnings off of a batch of Scotch Ale and carmelizing it in order to provide some diacetyl-like flavors. (For the lead up to this conclusion see other post)

I got to thinking and this makes a lot of sense but then thought about what kind of havoc this would wreak on my gravity calculations.

I have decided to take about 1.5 gallons of first runnings and boil that down to about 1/2 gallon. That ought to provide plenty of caramellish goodness to a ten gallon batch (I think).

This beer is for a competition so the details have to be nailed down pretty well.

My question then is this. How would I calculate the gravity points that the decoction would add to the batch and how could best arrive at the f.g. that will keep me true to the style standards.

And one more: Would'nt that caramelized stuff darken the color up a bunch? Could I modify the recipe in any kind of way to adjust for it?

I am beersmith savy so that may make it easier but i dont quite know how to plug it all in.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Relax and have a home brew.

this may actually take several...thanks

What type of scotch ale? If it is a 80/-, 90/-, or wee heavy it already is pretty dam dark anyway. So I would not worry about it.

As far as the gravity of the batch I would not worry about it. I am no expert but if you boil down 1 1/2 gal of the first runnings you are removing h20, but all the fermentables are still there. So your brew should have the same amount of fermentables. Now if you post your recipe, the collective will be able to give you advice on if it is enough for what ever size batch you are doing.

Snowhere said:

As far as the gravity of the batch I would not worry about it. I am no expert but if you boil down 1 1/2 gal of the first runnings you are removing h20, but all the fermentables are still there. So your brew should have the same amount of fermentables.

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Exactly. Making a reduction of wort into a syrup does not remove any sugar from it. It's all still there, just concentrated.

I do a reduction for my own scottish ale recipe, and I can tell you that it isn't going to give a you a diacetyl flavor. Diacetyl tastes like the fake butter they put on popcorn at the movie theater. YOu are going to get strong caramel malt flavors from it and not butter flavors.

But in reducing down the extract wont some of the sugars actually be converted to dextrins which arent fermentable?

I'll post the recipe shortly and see whay all yall think. Its actually a Wee Heavy.

Ah! You were talking about FG and not OG. My bad.

Yes, your FG will be higher than if you didn't do the reduction.

How much higher? No idea.

FG numbers are affected by a LOT of things. I don't even bother checking my FG on any beer that I make.

Here t'is

10 gallons Wee Heavyy Scotch Ale
20# brittish 2-row
1.25# Cararoma
.75# Dextrin
.50# Honey Malt
.25# Peat malt
.25 # Roasted Barley
.25# Chocolate malt
3.5 OZ. Kent goldings 60 min
.75 OZ. Kent goldings 20 min
.50 Wilamette 5 min
2 vials ringwood Ale W1187

Mash at 153-155 for 90 min
batch sparge
O.G. of 1.076-1.080
ferment at 65 for a week and then transfer to secondary
crash temp at 1.018 and then age for 90 days

It might be a little low in grains for a OG of 1.075-80 for 10 gal but it all depends on your efficiency of your system. I used close to 14lbs of malt for my 6 gal batch, and I hit a OG of 1.073. No matter what, I would let it sit in the primary for longer. I left mine for 3 weeks as it was obvious active fermentation was still going on. Right now mine has been in the secondary for 2 weeks and I am getting ready to bottle it this week. I believe Scotch ales take their time to ferment so I try not to rush them. Once again, it all depends on your system. Mine is a little cool right now as it is the winter and it depends on your yeast. I used White Labs Edinburgh Scottish ale yeast trying to stay on style. I don’t think I would use the Ringwood Ale yeast for a wee-heavy. If you want to use Wyeast, why not Wyeast 1728 Scottish Ale yeast? I usually use Burtons Ale yeast for just about everything as I can get it free from my local brew pub, but I bought specific yeast for my 80/- just to get the style I am looking for.

I agree a good scotch ale takes its sweet time. i uaually leave it in the primary for longer. As for the recipe, this is tried and true. I can usually hit 80% efficiency,even with a big grainbill. The only thing i am not sure about is the calculations. There has to be a way to figure all of it out. I would not even have to deal with it if i had the yeast(Ringwood)that i want. I am going for a fair amount of diacetyl on purpose, as it is true to the style. And after the 90 days in the keg the diacetyl is just right and the competion is in June. Maybe i'll just try and find som Ringwood online. The cosest HBS is 300 miles away so i cant exactly drop in and pick some up. I'm not a big fan of 1728. I've ued it in this beer before and it seems like it doesnt floc right and it finishes too dry. The Ringwood has a bad reputation but if cared for i.e. given plenty of time to do itsthing, kept coolish and given the time to settlle, produces a damned good Wee Heavy.