found an ant in my starter....
- Thread starter Matteo57
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Why throw it out? Seriously, why? Do you have any idea how many bug parts there are in the food you eat everyday... It's just an ant. Last night, a small bug flew in to my mouth as I was out running. I didn't die.
Edit: because I'm a moron.
Edit: because I'm a moron.
I think the concern is with te any introducing acetobacter, pedio, etc into the starter, getting an infected starter, and then getting an infected batch.
Got time and materials to start over before your planned brew? I wouldn't risk it.
Got time and materials to start over before your planned brew? I wouldn't risk it.
Just hold the ant with a pair of tweezers and slap it hard on the back a few times, yelling "SPIT IT OUT. IT'S MINE!!! ALL MINE!!!!!!
IL1kebeer
Well-Known Member
evrose said:
Are you serious? You aren't boiling the starter once there's yeast in it? Do you boil your starters after the yeast has been pitched? Do pitch your starter in the wort before the boil? Bad advice above...
Anyway OP, I'm sure you are aware of this since you posted about it in the first place, but once the starter gets exposed to outside contaminants, especially bugs, then the chance for an infection increases. This is why you would want to throw it out. You might get away with it if you use it, but you will risk ruining your batch, wasting your time, and throwing your money down the drain. If you don't have time for another starter then get some dry yeast (cheap) or buy the equivalent amount of liquid vials (expensive). I personally wouldn't risk still using it, but there's a small chance that you will be Ok since the amount of yeast can outcompete bacteria blah blah blah. My advice would be to get some new yeast.
Yeah, I edited that part. I haven't drunk enough coffee this morning. Of course I wasn't giving the advice to boil your starter...
I still don't think the starter needs to be thrown out... and believe it or not, I have an advanced degree in killing bacteria (no, seriously, I do).
BreezyBrew
IPA is my spirit animal
I found a mosquito in my chilled wort one time. I had an active fermentation and the beer was fine.
Since it's in your starter, I'd throw it out. It's too much of a risk when it is something you can prevent.
Since it's in your starter, I'd throw it out. It's too much of a risk when it is something you can prevent.
LovesIPA
Well-Known Member
+1 for throwing it out and not risking contaminating a batch.
Can you explain why contamination isn't something to be worried about?
Can you explain why contamination isn't something to be worried about?
Randy_Bugger
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Ants groom themselves constantly with anti-microbial saliva. They are "cleaner" than humans.
I'd still pitch some new yeast without an ant, but it wouldn't surprise me if the ant didn't contaminate the starter with enough bacteria to ruin the batch.
I'd still pitch some new yeast without an ant, but it wouldn't surprise me if the ant didn't contaminate the starter with enough bacteria to ruin the batch.
It is something to be worried about... but that doesn't mean that every potential contaminant is going to ruin a batch. There's no such thing as sterile in homebrewing. To be honest, I don't have time (or energy) to write an lengthy post on bacterial and yeast competition for resources in a closed environment like a fermentor. In short, there are bacteria EVERYWHERE. Yeast simply outcompete them 99.999999% of the time. Infected batches can happen, but a freakin' ANT just isn't going to be carrying enough nasties to outcompete the number of yeast in a starter. The yeast will overwhelm the system.
I bet I could brew 1,000 beers and drop an ant in to the starters of half and the infection rate would be the same whether the ant was present or not.
IL1kebeer
Well-Known Member
evrose said:
Yeah, like I said, it could work out, but the chance of infection is there and is increased. I personally wouldn't risk it or even give advice to pitching a contaminated starter but that's my opinion and that's how I brew. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and can brew any way that they want; that's the joy of our hobby.
And when I say contaminated starter I don't mean that it has an infection. It obviously is contaminated because of the ant but that doesn't mean that it has an infection... Yet.
cheezydemon3
Well-Known Member
MUST NAME THE BEER ACCORDINGLY.
Red Ant Ale.
Black Ant Porter
whatever. An ant is not going to infect it assuming it made some alcohol.
The bigger concern, is that if an ant got in, did anything else? Must not have been sealed tight.
Red Ant Ale.
Black Ant Porter
whatever. An ant is not going to infect it assuming it made some alcohol.
The bigger concern, is that if an ant got in, did anything else? Must not have been sealed tight.
Dead-ant dead-ant, dead-ant dead-ant dead-ant, dead-ant dead-ant dead-ant dead-ant dead-annnnnnt! (read as if you were singing the pink panther theme song.) Sorry. I am easily amused and on a bit of a caffiene buzz.
cheezydemon3
Well-Known Member
....ooooooh!
Pink Panther Porter!
What a story!
Pink Panther Porter!
What a story!
Or maybe Ant (Aunt) Sally's Stout?
eltorrente
Well-Known Member
Don't throw it out!!!! What a waste of a good starter that would be.. There will be hardly any chance of contamination. Yes - it's an ant, so what. It's not infected with maggots or anything - it's just an ant. They are clean creatures.
I've had ants, and various other little creatures that have found their way into my wort at various stages of brewing/fermenting, and I've never once had a contaminated batch in over 17 years of brewing.
Here's a tidbit from an article I found on "The Straight Dope" website:
Let's put it this way: the types and numbers of bacteria on an ant aren't significantly different from those in the air in your home--the same air that's in contact with your cookies all day long. In fact, if there's any difference, the ants will be cleaner, as any tendency they may have to accumulate contaminants on their feet while walking is countered by three important factors, which you can point out to your friend:
1. Ants groom themselves more than almost any other type of animal known. In this respect their feet are second in importance only to their antennae, which are immaculate.
2. The physical structure of ants' feet, and the nature of the lipid layer covering their exoskeleton, makes them a poor site for bacterial retention even if they didn't groom themselves so well.
3. The chemical secretions in ants' saliva and external glands are loaded with some remarkable antimicrobial agents--ants, after all, are assaulted by infectious agents in the environment just as we are (possibly more so when they live underground). They've had millions more years than primates to develop the body chemistry to make their bodies and nests as close to sterile as can be conceived--imagine if human sweat were composed of Lysol and penicillin.
We'd be lucky if we were as sterile and disease-free as an ant. Ants almost never get sick compared to humans. You introduce far deadlier microbes into your body simply by using two unwashed fingers to touch your cookies than would a million ants.
I've had ants, and various other little creatures that have found their way into my wort at various stages of brewing/fermenting, and I've never once had a contaminated batch in over 17 years of brewing.
Here's a tidbit from an article I found on "The Straight Dope" website:
Let's put it this way: the types and numbers of bacteria on an ant aren't significantly different from those in the air in your home--the same air that's in contact with your cookies all day long. In fact, if there's any difference, the ants will be cleaner, as any tendency they may have to accumulate contaminants on their feet while walking is countered by three important factors, which you can point out to your friend:
1. Ants groom themselves more than almost any other type of animal known. In this respect their feet are second in importance only to their antennae, which are immaculate.
2. The physical structure of ants' feet, and the nature of the lipid layer covering their exoskeleton, makes them a poor site for bacterial retention even if they didn't groom themselves so well.
3. The chemical secretions in ants' saliva and external glands are loaded with some remarkable antimicrobial agents--ants, after all, are assaulted by infectious agents in the environment just as we are (possibly more so when they live underground). They've had millions more years than primates to develop the body chemistry to make their bodies and nests as close to sterile as can be conceived--imagine if human sweat were composed of Lysol and penicillin.
We'd be lucky if we were as sterile and disease-free as an ant. Ants almost never get sick compared to humans. You introduce far deadlier microbes into your body simply by using two unwashed fingers to touch your cookies than would a million ants.
LoloMT7
Well-Known Member
LovesIPA
Well-Known Member
Here's a link to the article, in case anyone wants to read it. http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2246/are-ants-disease-carriers
The cookie reference makes a lot more sense if you read the article.
The stuff I learn as a result of this hobby is just amazing.
LovesIPA
Well-Known Member
Take the ant out. Problem solved!
After learning what I did about ant cleanliness, I would probably still use the starter.
eltorrente
Well-Known Member
I found an Earwig in my fermenter one time. Big deal. Gross to think about - but was I going to dump 5 gallons of Pale Ale? Heck no.. I named it Earwig Ale, and kegged it up. Delicious.
