Has anyone tried this quick-lagering method?

I found this a while back and bookmarked it for when I finally got a fermentation chamber.
http://brulosophy.com/methods/lager-method/

Right now, I've got a Baltic Porter in there and I'm following a fermentation regimen similar to what he describes. Has anyone tried something similar to this and know whether it's effective or not?

Just wondering because I can't ever see myself brewing traditional lagers if I need to devote that much time and attention to a beer I probably won't enjoy as much as my IPAs and Belgians

While I have not followed his process for lager beers, I have moved lagers from grain to glass in 4 weeks without much issue. The key, as with any beer, is good yeast handling, proper pitching rates, precise fermentation temperature control, and overall sound process.

Agreed, but you may want to let that Baltic porter sit for awhile.

This method is solid as long as you:

1. Pitch properly (as he indicates). If you under pitch a lager you're already toast, but would be especially detrimental here.
2. Are dealing with moderate gravity (~1.050).
3. Take a gravity reading before you crash it the first few times you do this to ensure you're done.
4. I wouldn't do this on the low end of the temp range. Definitely over 50, and probably more like 52+.

schematix said:

This method is solid as long as you:

1. Pitch properly (as he indicates). If you under pitch a lager you're already toast, but would be especially detrimental here.
2. Are dealing with moderate gravity (~1.050).
3. Take a gravity reading before you crash it the first few times you do this to ensure you're done.
4. I wouldn't do this on the low end of the temp range. Definitely over 50, and probably more like 52+.

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I have brewed 40 gallons of lagers with this method and I'm very happy with the results, that said the points made above I also believe are key, so go for it and good luck.

I've read that article, and it's on my to do list. I just keep brewing ales, and have not got to this one yet.

I almost exclusively brew Pilsners (although I occasionally brew ales such as Westvleteren, or braggots). While I agree with the overall process in terms of obtaining clear lagers (I have never had problems with the lager clearing completely fairly early), in terms of taste, I question the wisdom of letting it lager for only a week. I notice significant improvement in taste when lagered for at least 6 weeks (or longer). But perhaps this is more noticeable in delicate German-styled pilsners than in stronger IPAs and heavier Belgians.

I don’t follow that process exactly but YES I lager fast. I also like to cold crash my ales for a week or so to brighten them up. Looks like they’re filtered when done.

Right now I have a Vienna Lager and a German Heineken style lager chilling. They may be better sitting longer but after 3 weeks in the fridge they come out great.

First stage for a week at 50 to 55 or so depending on the yeast and then 3 weeks in the chill zone. 2 weeks in a cold keg on pressure and then pour. Month and a half to crisp bright lagers.

Planning to trying something similar to this on my next brew now that I have a fermentation chamber. I'm not shooting for 2 weeks, but if I can turn it around in about a month that's what I'm aiming for.

Its the only way I do lagers anymore. You're basically wanting to get the bulk of fermentation (~70% in my book) completed at the appropriate, low, ferm temp that you're targeting. This is when the bulk of yeast esters are produced so keeping the temp low yields the clean lager taste profile that you want. After that point, ramping the temp up invigorates the yeast, does not produce appreciable esters, cleans up diacetyl all un the same effort. cold crash slowly to limit chill haze does work as well. I'm drinking in 3 weeks on low grav lagers and its clear in another week or two.

I do my lagers similarly as well. I go about a week at a fermentation temp of 48-50, then let free rise to the mid 60s for another week, then either cold crash or keg. From that point, I'll maybe give it an extra week cold and carbonation before I start drinking it regularly, but usually tap and taste here and there after 1-3 weeks. Four weeks and it should be pretty clear. No need to bother with putting dead animal/fish parts in your beer (aka horse hoofs or fish bladders).
As long as you aerate well (ie at least 90 seconds of pure O2) and pitch plenty of fresh/healthy yeast, you should be good to go.

Weezy said:

Its the only way I do lagers anymore. You're basically wanting to get the bulk of fermentation (~70% in my book) completed at the appropriate, low, ferm temp that you're targeting. This is when the bulk of yeast esters are produced so keeping the temp low yields the clean lager taste profile that you want. After that point, ramping the temp up invigorates the yeast, does not produce appreciable esters, cleans up diacetyl all un the same effort. cold crash slowly to limit chill haze does work as well. I'm drinking in 3 weeks on low grav lagers and its clear in another week or two.

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What is the difference between a slow and a fast cold crash with this method?

Its basically independent of the lagering method as it holds true for all beers. Some probrewers have said that post fermentation chilling should be done slowly, a few degrees a day, to prevent chill haze. I always just kegged and through the keg in the kegerator at serving temp to chill and carb. Sometimes id get chill haze, sometimes not. I bring it up cuz if I'm making a simple, light, 1.035 lager, chill haze can be very noticeable. In a 1.065 IPA with a ton of dry hops, a bit of chill haze isn't going to bother anyone. i.e. I personally only do it with lagers, but any beer would benefit.

I've never had this issue personally, I crash as quickly as I can and my ales come out like crystal. I'm just starting to get into brewing lagers more now that I've got a good chamber for it

Ok great, thanks guys. Yeah I knew with a big Baltic Porter I would need more conditioning time. I was planning on extending the warmer side of the fermentation regimen by about 50% before lagering. Right now its at its 65F finishing stage

I brew lagers frequently and love brewing them. I used to use the more traditional process, but recently I have started using this sort of method and I have not seen any difference. As others have said, the proper pitch rate and precise temp control are of utmost importance. The only difference in my process is I cold crash in primary at lager temps for a week and then transfer to a keg. I then hook up to gas in my keezer and use the set and forget carb method. After a few weeks, usually the first pint isn't completely clear, but still not bad and crystal clear from then on. Although after 3-4 weeks in the keg I see a tremendous improvement in the more malt forward styles. I guess I personally think the malty brews improve with a longer lager period. My vienna lager was great after just a couple of weeks in the keg though.

Plan on trying this on my next lager. I certainly like the idea of not having to wait as long.

I'm trying this method right now with a 1.056 festbier, held it at 50F for about 5 days, let it ramp up to 60 and it's been there since Friday. Using WLP 885...which is a weird yeast pick but it's what I had on hand. I tested it on Saturday and it had gone maybe 35% of the fermentation at that point (1.030). I'm shooting for a 1.010 FG. I'm discovering this yeast is slow as molasses...the beer was pitched onto a cake from a 1.044 beer and oxygenated for 90 secs with pure O2, took off really fast as well but it's chuggin still.

Following up on my own experiences. Yeast had only gone 1/3 of the way through fermentation when I started ramping it up. Should have checked it first, but the beer got a very big pitch, plenty of O2 and was 5 days into primary. WLP885 is the samiclaus yeast, I wanted to try it out and it's pretty slow. First beer I made with it was a simple pilsner with azaaca, it's crystal clear now and tastes great, no esters, but I followed a traditional lager pattern. I can't say yay or nay really considering I started the temperature ramp too early, but I'm posting it here just for the sake of information.

The beer is 1 week into lagering now, and still a good amount of yeast in suspension. SWMBO described the flavor as a basketful of apricots and she likes it. It's got a big fruitiness, but it tastes deliberate and it actually balances well with the beer, just steering it far from style. I'm not sure how much of the fruit is from suspended yeast and how much from me accelerating the fermentation but that's where it is now (moderate clarity). Malts come through nicely on the finish. I'll follow up in another 3 weeks when it's dropped completely.

Yeah my Baltic Porter is close to 2 weeks into lagering and I'll bottle it once I have time. (Need to brew more beer to make up for lost time visiting the family for the holidays).

But I think this works really well. So far, the Baltic Porter is exactly like I had hoped. Complex and amazingly smooth due to the lager yeast and lagering itself

schematix said:

This method is solid as long as you:

4. I wouldn't do this on the low end of the temp range. Definitely over 50, and probably more like 52+.

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I've pitched at 46˚F and fermented at 48˚F multiple times, it works incredibly well.

Brettomomyces said:

What is the difference between a slow and a fast cold crash with this method?

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I'm beginning to think it's not all that big of a deal, actually. When I was working on this method a couple years back, the slow cold crash was a theoretically based attempt to sort of mimic more traditional lager methods, which involves a slow ramp down in temp. I've done it quickly and didn't notice anything different. I'm convinced it's a matter of scale and that a slower temp drop would be more important for commercial brewers making huge batches... but I could be wrong there too.

Cheers!

Brulosopher said:

I'm beginning to think it's not all that big of a deal, actually. When I was working on this method a couple years back, the slow cold crash was a theoretically based attempt to sort of mimic more traditional lager methods, which involves a slow ramp down in temp. I've done it quickly and didn't notice anything different. I'm convinced it's a matter of scale and that a slower temp drop would be more important for commercial brewers making huge batches... but I could be wrong there too.

Cheers!

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I have a large ferm chamber and when I need to crash I just set it for 32 and walk away; everything I've been brewing lately on my new rig comes out as crystal after the initial few days into the keg. I'm doing 10g batches in Sanke kegs primarily.

Justdrumin said:

Although after 3-4 weeks in the keg I see a tremendous improvement in the more malt forward styles. I guess I personally think the malty brews improve with a longer lager period.

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I've experienced this as well. After fermenting, d-resting, and crashing in the primary, my lagers are quite clear and clean tasting when I keg them. However, I found that it takes about 4 weeks in the keg before the malt flavor "pops", so to speak.

I have no idea why this is!

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1421885544.871706.jpg an Oktoberfest 30 days grain to glass...


Pretty clear i might say and very good iteration of a marzen

The process is sound and I might say was a bit nervous committing the short time and effort in the hopes that 60-90 days isn't always needed to make good German lagers... I will second the notion good cell count of healthy yeast and firm temp controls is absolutely critical. Fermentation was complete in 9 days crashed 1 week and was racked to secondary for additional week with gelatin added and force carb'ed for 48 hrs. Glass pictured is first pull off keg at day 30

klaggy said:

View attachment 250467 an Oktoberfest 30 days grain to glass...


Pretty clear i might say and very good iteration of a marzen

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Very pretty. Do you mind sharing your recipe? Marzen is next on my to-brew list. The last 2 renditions I made were good but was looking for something different.

schematix said:

Very pretty. Do you mind sharing your recipe? Marzen is next on my to-brew list. The last 2 renditions I made were good but was looking for something different.

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My (m)Oktoberfest ain't too bad, it's won a couple awards even. Cheers!

Well sure! However im sure that there are some amazing marzen/Oktoberfest on the recipe board....brulosopher included im sure

I am trying it out. I will be moving mine to 30 degrees in the morning. Starting a Grolsch recipe this week end using the quick lager method.

oogaboogachiefwalkingdeer said:

I am trying it out. I will be moving mine to 30 degrees in the morning. Starting a Grolsch recipe this week end using the quick lager method.

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Get it kegged up yet?

Well sir I have bottled it and now have three bottles left. It was awesome. I bottled the Grolsch Feb 7th and another American Lager the 19th of Feb. I have another Grolsch waiting for the cold crash this Friday. Thanks for your help. The method works well for me.

It is the nature of the beast. Lager and Pils produced by using the English method is best when it goes from boiler to belly in six weeks or so. The method does not produce wort with the backbone to support yeast throughout a traditional lagering cycle. The method cannot produce certain styles of beer. The experiment being done on lager produced by the English method proves one thing. Lager cannot age properly when brewed using the English method.

VladOfTrub said:

It is the nature of the beast. Lager and Pils produced by using the English method is best when it goes from boiler to belly in six weeks or so. The method does not produce wort with the backbone to support yeast throughout a traditional lagering cycle. The method cannot produce certain styles of beer. The experiment being done on lager produced by the English method proves one thing. Lager cannot age properly when brewed using the English method.

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What styles of beer can it not produce?

I am just curious, what is 'the english method'? I think I got lost on that post, Vlad, though it may be the many drinks I've had already. On the other hand, to validate Brulosopher's method a little bit; I have only brewed 5 lagers with this method. However, it has worked perfectly. I have brewed 2 pale lagers, a bockbier, a dunkel and a malt-liquor. They pretty much all come out the way they should, though I will say after a little over a week at lager temps the dunked improved with another week in the keg. I may be an oddball but I enjoy tasting the changes the beers go through, if they change while I'm drinking them. The dunkel is the most noticeable flavor change, though it wasn't off-putting. The specific flavor change was from a very chocolate start to a more mild chocolate flavor, as well as the whole beer is just more crisp. I bottled the strongbiers (bock, and malt-liquor) and both were fine after two weeks of carbonating. Also, I have used decoction and infusion methods for developing the wort. I believe decoction is the most flavorful, for maltier beers anyway, but that may be subjective and off the point.

Lastly, I have a decocted dopplebock that is just ramping down using Wyeast 2206 (Bavarian Lager) which was the yeast cake from the previous dunkel. I haven't decided weather to bottle or keg this beer yet. Either way, I am going to ramp down over the next 2-3 days, and lager through next week which will be a total of 4 weeks from brewing. I'm sure it will come out just fine, though it may benefit from a week or two in the keg if that's the route I go. It will be enjoyed regardless, and the process will begin again! Cheers!

Lager produced with the English method?

I think when Vlad talks about the English method he's talking about a single infusion mash. I know he's a big fan of decoction and has been doing it since 1987.

Brulosipher's method works for me.

I have a Helles I brewed recently with this strategy. Used German Lager X yeast. It was kegged, carbed, clear and very good at 21 days.

Here's the Czech pilsner I made on 01/26/15, so 4 weeks total. It's been crystal clear for the last 5 days.

I feel as if it will benefit from another couple weeks aging, but as far as the yeast character it's perfectly clean.

Fixed the stupid iPhone sideways posting

The last lager I made, I used his method.
Came out swimmingly. Getting ready to try it again here in the coming weeks.

This thread has me changing my mind on my next brew…. I’ve always really liked lagers when I’ve made them but that multi-month timeframe just dissuaded me from brewing them.

I think Im going to make a marzen or Vienna lager, and try to have it done in a month.

One thing I didn’t notice on this thread, for everyone who is manually adjusting your fermentation temperature every day, take a look at STC-1000+. Can set your own ferment profile and then it’s a matter of pushing the button once and letting it go through the whole process. Of course you should also verify that the yeast is following the schedule by periodically checking gravity and/or visible ferment signals (krausen). But it really is awesome knowing that the controller will put the beer through the main ferment, ramp up for cleanup/diacetyl rest, then ramp down to cold crash all by itself.