Saving an infected beer

So my last brew got infected. Don't know with what, just tasted horrible, and my bottles just about erupted after 2 weeks. I chock it up to lack of cleaning, I had to many homebrews that day. Anyways, I brewed another 8 days ago and racked it into secondary 2 days ago to let it sit on orange zest. I know I did it early but fermentation was about finished and most distressingly, I smelled the same thing that I smelled from the last batch of bad beer. I thought I might save it by getting it off the possibly 'infected' cake. Now after 2 days in secondary the smell is getting stronger again. My question is, if I boil the batch for 15-20 min and gently rerack with a new batch of yeast, could I save it?

Thanks for the help, love the HBF. Both these brews are creams ales of sorts. Different suppliers of ingredients for each brew.

And I ferment in a plastic bucket, I figure thats probably my problem so I'm going to buy a new one before next batch.

you used the same yeast cake from an infected batch to do a new batch??

boiling at this point will destroy the beer, it will drive all alcohol off, and I doubt theres much sugar left in there to ferment

dump the batch, it sucks I know, but dump it, bleach the hell out of everything, then iodophor or starsan, throw all your plastic gear away and get new (bugs like to hide in plastic)

Welcome to HBT!

Are you really judging a 10 day old batch of beer by the smell?
Sorry, but I think that's a little crazy. If your bucket is bad, nothing you can do about it now but buy another. If the beer is bad, nothing you can do about it BUT what if your beer is fine?

I say, do nothing right now. After a few weeks, try it again and don't do anything without talking to us again.

Was your last batch your first batch? If not, was the beer before that fine?

Thanks for the quick responses guys. I normally wouldn't jump the gun like this but its the exact same smell as my very last beer. And that stuff was horrible! Hehe. And I agree with you, if I can't do anything to fix it, I might as well wait it out.....It's better than throwing beer out. GASP! I think I'll go get myself a new glass carboy for a primary tomorrow and make a brew. Infections SUCK btw!

No, my first infected batch was, I think, my 8th. It was however my first all grain, fortunately, I'm stubborn and don't give up.

The weird thing about beer is that sometimes the "bad" turns out really good. You will get yelled at around here if you talk about tossing a beer before it's finished, bottled, and aged. At that point if it tastes like Satin's Ass, then you are allowed to throw it out.

Just remember to CLEARLY identify each batch, I'd hate for you to dump a good batch thinking it was the bad one.....not that I've ever done that

ryane said:

dump the batch, it sucks I know, but dump it, bleach the hell out of everything, then iodophor or starsan, throw all your plastic gear away and get new (bugs like to hide in plastic)

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You may have just started a **** shorm.

Maybe I should let it go a few weeks, taste, and add more additives (coriander seed, orange zest) to try and over ride the little buggers in there after they die out. They have to die out sooner or later don't they? And even if its not the greatest beer in the world because it's spiced to hell, who cares. The alternative is dumping it. Is there anything I can add to the beer to kill the bacteria without really messing up the flavor? I understand that the byproduct off flavors of the bacteria would still be there, I'm just thinking it would prevent the bottle gushers i had last time. Hmmm..... this sounds like a challenge.

ryane said:

dump the batch, it sucks I know, but dump it, bleach the hell out of everything, then iodophor or starsan, throw all your plastic gear away and get new (bugs like to hide in plastic)

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Hmmm...
No bugs seem to hide in my plastic. If you use your sanitizer correctly, then you wont have bugs hiding in your plastic. As far as I am concerned, I love using ale pales, no harsh cleaning, no chance of breaking, no exposure to UV light. DONT THROW AWAY YOUR BEER!!! If it tastes bad a 3 weeks of conditioning, wait till week 6, if it tastes bad at week 6, wait till week 8. Time cures all things, even beer.

You surmised that it was a lack of cleaning on the first batch. Did you sanitize after cleaning?

-a.

Runyank said:

Hmmm...
No bugs seem to hide in my plastic. If you use your sanitizer correctly, then you wont have bugs hiding in your plastic. As far as I am concerned, I love using ale pales, no harsh cleaning, no chance of breaking, no exposure to UV light. DONT THROW AWAY YOUR BEER!!! If it tastes bad a 3 weeks of conditioning, wait till week 6, if it tastes bad at week 6, wait till week 8. Time cures all things, even beer.

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buckets are one thing, racking canes, tubing etc are another, once an infection takes hold it can be hard to eliminate all possible sources of contamination, its usually just easier to toss the gear out and get new

I mean an ale pale is what 10$, much cheaper than a wasted batch

I have to disagree with you on time curing all, brewing mostly wild ales now myself, I have to say that sometimes there really is nothing that will make the beer better, sometimes with bacteria/wild yeast IIWII and it aint getting better - now I would suggest keeping the batch as is for awhile, I mean if your getting new gear whats the rush, just dont expect much

My Two-Hearted Ale clone got a bug of some sort (white floaties at the surface of the beer in every bottle) and tasted funny at first, but now that it's several months old, the weird floaties are still there but it doesn't taste half bad. It actually tastes like an IPA, and not far off from Two-Hearted.

ryane said:

I have to disagree with you on time curing all, brewing mostly wild ales now myself, I have to say that sometimes there really is nothing that will make the beer better, sometimes with bacteria/wild yeast IIWII and it aint getting better - now I would suggest keeping the batch as is for awhile, I mean if your getting new gear whats the rush, just dont expect much

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The thing is you shouldn't be recommending someone to dump their beer after 8 days in the first place.

You said the first infected batch was bottled. Do you bottle all your beer or do you keg, too? If you keg and you're really convinced it's infected and want to kill it off, then add some campden tablets, keg it, and force carb it. Of course this won't work for bottling where you need some live yeast to carb it in the bottle.

Whatever you do, do not gently boil it for 15 minutes after fermentation is close to complete. Nothing good can come from this.

mkling said:

Whatever you do, do not gently boil it for 15 minutes after fermentation is close to complete. Nothing good can come from this.

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You have something against near beer?

ajf - I cleaned and sanitized everything before my first infected batch but I was getting lazy and had a few brews so I know I didn't do the greatest job in the world. I did however clean and sanitized the hell out of everything before this last batch because I was pissed for letting it happen the first time.

mkling - I bottle everything. Don't even have a setup yet for kegging so thats out of the question. I would rather do something to kill off the bugs and mask the heck out of the off flavors to make a drinkable beer than to simply give up and dump it after a month in the secondary.(which is how long I intend to leave it, at least right now)

Nothing is wrong with bugs in a beer . Only if you don't want to let it sit for a year or so and let the brett do its thing.

I've got to tell you the truth man, I'd be scared to drink anything that had been sitting in a plastic bucket for over a year.

Dumping a batch after 10 days is premature, but starting a bleach holocaust on anything that touches the beer now (including your bottling bucket parts) would be ideal.

Nurmey said:

At that point if it tastes like Satin's Ass, then you are allowed to throw it out.

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I wasn't aware fabric even had orifices

EvilTOJ said:

I wasn't aware fabric even had orifices

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Oops! That is funny. Okay, maybe it's Satan's satin covered ass.
Time to go to bed now. :cross:

I wish I new where all this "infection" talk comes from, I doubt your last batch was infected, seriously! I get a lot of bad smells/flavors when using any sort of "green" or "fresh" fruit or plant matter in my beer, and it always takes a long time to overcome, but I have never seen an infection. . . . AND . . . . I'll probably get shot for this, or wish I never said it, . . I have never used a "sanitizer" I've used all sorts of cleaners, but never a sanitizer. . . so . . . now do I hear infection coming after me after saying that? No, but I think good cleaning practices and attention to detail during the most important steps of brewing are your best weapons against . . . "INFECTION" AAAAAAAUUURRRRGGG!!

Nurmey said:

The weird thing about beer is that sometimes the "bad" turns out really good. You will get yelled at around here if you talk about tossing a beer before it's finished, bottled, and aged. At that point if it tastes like Satin's Ass, then you are allowed to throw it out.

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What exactly does Satin's ass taste like? Estery? Astringent? Bubblegum? Rotten fruit? Spoiled asparagus? Dirty diapers? Inquiring minds want to know. I need to know what to look out for.

SmugMug said:

What exactly does Satin's ass taste like? Estery? Astringent? Bubblegum? Rotten fruit? Spoiled asparagus? Dirty diapers? Inquiring minds want to know. I need to know what to look out for.

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You don't need to know what to look for. You'll know it when it hits your mouth.

Well, I don't know if I brewed Satin's ass last time but I can't believe it didnt have a few little devils in it. It tasted sour as hell, gushed out of the bottle (after 2 weeks conditioning) like hell, and little chunks loved to float up and down when I looked in the bottle. Did I also mention the chunky ring around the fill level in the bottle. I think the anti-christ was microscopic. And I hate to add to the bad news, but now I have something in my most recent batch. It seems a ring of mucus is forming near the outer edge of the bucket. I'm thinking of racking to a new clean bucket and adding new yeast, even though it's down to 1.010, just to see if the yeast would kill the mucus devil spawn.

Yeah a ring around the fill line is usually a sign of infection. Satan's halo, if you will.

I had a over bitter beer last month (not infected just bitter from too much special malt) and I remedied the taste with ginger oil

Much better than tossing it.

I would ask the OP exactly WHAT the off smell/flavor was...may not be dealing with an infection at all, maybe chlorophenols or oxidation which have more to do with water, yeast pitching temp, and process. It could be either, as he doesn't specify details and he DID rack to secondary which can lead to too much oxygen getting into the beer.

So BenS, how bout it? What was your temperature when pitching yeast? Did you treat for chlorine/chloramines in your water? Lotsa splashing when racking to secondary?

I just kegged a 5 gallon beer that was infected, as it was sour and had white film on top. I mixed it with about one gallon of good beer and added ginger oil and peppermint extract. tastes great. Not sure what caused it but i suspect adding cane sugar to the carboy after 7 days may have some play. It was only 2% ABV so I was hoping to jump start the yeast again and got nothing.