I have not sanitized any thing for the last 4 months!!!

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

DannyD

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2011
Messages
420
Reaction score
9
Location
Polokwane
And have been using the same yeast cake over and over for 4 times now!!! (in a plastic bucket. beer out, other one, in)
All just equipment just washed with soap and water.

No infection, just good beer

thoughts?
 
Sounds like an open invitation to an infection but you've been lucky so far. Most dish soap is antibacterial though so that helps.
 
Agree - get some objective feedback. Sounds likely also grossly over pitching for most beer. Your makin beer, but it could be better.

If your happy with the results though - proceed.
 
Another one of these threads. How about you send your beer to a BJCP competition and post independent comments on your beer.

My thoughts exactly. I thought my beer was great when I first started brewing... turns out was quite naive.
 
My thoughts exactly. I thought my beer was great when I first started brewing... turns out was quite naive.

You needed someone else to tell you your beer wasn't good when you thought it was?

Do you need a weather man to tell you it's raining too?

I don't mean to be argumentative, but if you like your beer, then who gives a crap what someone else thinks? "Good" is subjective.

If you're brewing to win competitions and your objective is to stay in style and all that, then yeah ask someone else if your beer is good or at least what it is supposed to be.

But if you brew beer to drink and enjoy it (imagine that) then your opinion and your opinion alone is what matters.

Is the OP asking for infections and all sorts of issues doing what he's doing? Oh yeah. but if he's happy with what he makes, then who cares.
 
You needed someone else to tell you your beer wasn't good when you thought it was?

No. I taught myself to pick up off flavors. I also taught myself proper sanitation, brewing techniques and everything else I know about beer/judging/etc. Living in small towns in IL will do that to you.

I don't mean to be argumentative, but if you like your beer, then who gives a crap what someone else thinks? "Good" is subjective. If you're brewing to win competitions and your objective it to stay in style and all that, then yeah ask someone else if your beer is good or at least what it is supposed to be. But if you brew beer to drink and enjoy it (imagine that) then your opinion and your opinion alone is what matters. Is the OP asking for infections and all sorts of issues doing what he's doing? Oh yeah. but if he's happy with what he makes, then who cares.

I brew beer to enjoy it. If it's excellent, it goes to a comp.

However, I do not broadcast poor brewing practices on a public forum and then boast about the quality of my beer. Some poor soul will probably read that and say, "Hey, he did it! So can I!" and then they'll have a wasted batch of beer. I'd like to prevent that.
 
No. I taught myself to pick up off flavors. I also taught myself proper sanitation, brewing techniques and everything else I know about beer/judging/etc. Living in small towns in IL will do that to you.



I brew beer to enjoy it. If it's excellent, it goes to a comp.

However, I do not broadcast poor brewing practices on a public forum and then boast about the quality of my beer. Some poor soul will probably read that and say, "Hey, he did it! So can I!" and then they'll have a wasted batch of beer. I'd like to prevent that.

I rarely enter competitions anymore. But as a BJCP judge, I must say that I've had many beers that simply weren't all that good that the brewer thinks is great.

I call it "Ugly Baby Syndrome". I've seen brewers that LOVE their beer, and that's great, just like parents love their less than beautiful babies. If they think their baby is the most beautiful baby in the world, I can't argue with that. I've some beers that have UBS as well. The brewer thinks it's fabulous and doesn't taste the flaws or problems.

If the OP loves his beer that is grossly overpitched, then that's awesome and I'm happy for them. If sanitation hasn't been a concern, that's also great.

I probably won't volunteer for a beerswap with them, but they aren't asking for that so it's all good!
 
must be more to the technique than described

after a few batches the pail would be full of yeast, dead yeast and trub. When I can normally harvest 2-3 quarts of cake from a 5 gal batch...pitch about 1-2 cups of that slurry depending on calculator so most of it is coming from the current batch.
 
I am self professed clean freak. It comes from working in a food factory for so many years.
I clean and sanitize everything all the time but I firmly believe we go CRAZY over it.
Go to Belgium and see how they brew in huge open tanks and it really makes you wonder.
Most people here will say if you use ice to cool your wort you are crazy.
If you buy a plastic induction tank for fermenting with just a screw top cover you are crazy
Plastic buckets are unsafe cause you could scratch them
I could go on and on.
My personal feeling is people have been making great beer for hundreds of years even before Starsan was invented. LOL
 
You needed someone else to tell you your beer wasn't good when you thought it was?

Do you need a weather man to tell you it's raining too?

I don't mean to be argumentative, but if you like your beer, then who gives a crap what someone else thinks? "Good" is subjective.

If you're brewing to win competitions and your objective is to stay in style and all that, then yeah ask someone else if your beer is good or at least what it is supposed to be.

But if you brew beer to drink and enjoy it (imagine that) then your opinion and your opinion alone is what matters.

Is the OP asking for infections and all sorts of issues doing what he's doing? Oh yeah. but if he's happy with what he makes, then who cares.

I am with AmandaK on this one.... It helped me immensely to have someone else evaluate my beer - really evaluate it. The vast, vast majority of friends you give beer to will tell you "it is good" because a.) they are polite, and b.) they don't know much about beer. Likewise, when you make something yourself, you tend to be invested in it and try to find ways to tell yourself that it is "not bad" or "pretty good" or "drinkable." Getting unbiased feedback (maybe through competitions, or other venues like clubs, homebrew store, etc.) is a GREAT way to find some things out.

I try to be honest when people ask me to evaluate their homebrew - I don't just give them the nod and say "mmmm that is pretty good." I can think of dozens of examples over the years where individual brewers have told me about their "good" beer and there were huge, glaring flaws in it - bandaid, fusel, gushing infections, etc. As we choked it down, they tried to justify the flavors as something unique about their beer. Hey, I did the same as I was learning - I know I did. People find ways to "like" their beers because it is THEIRS, and they worked hard at it. But that does not actually make it "good." The same person could get served that same beer along side "good" beer in a brew pub and they would complain about the beer being bad......

Basically, what you are saying is:
If you think your beer is good, because you don't know any better, then don't worry about learning more - just drink it the way it is and be happy with it....... sort of an "ignorance is bliss" approach to homebrewing.

I think Amanda's suggestion is right on the money for people who are really interested in finding constructive, honest feedback on their beer. It is a great way to learn.
 
Oh don't get me wrong, I know the value of an unbiased opinion and feedback. It's sure helped me along the way.

But I also know that I'm the only person who can tell me what tastes good and what doesn't.

I do see your point Amanda regarding bad brewing practices. While the OP may be happy with the results, that's the exception.
 
Basically, what you are saying is:
If you think your beer is good, because you don't know any better, then don't worry about learning more - just drink it the way it is and be happy with it....... sort of an "ignorance is bliss" approach to homebrewing.

Actually no. What I am saying is if you enjoy your beer, then you enjoy your beer. No judge can tell you that you don't. Not even people on the internet can. :rolleyes:

I never said anything about not learning more.

EDIT:

Sorry for the double post. Can I merge these possibly?
 
For me it's just a probability thing.

Given the amount of time, effort and money that goes into each batch, the cost of an infection is large.
So if there's a low-cost process that reduces my chance of infection to close to zero, it's a no brainer

Cost of infection x probability of infection with sanitizing + cost of sanitizing << cost of infection x probability of infection w/out sanitizing
...Big number....x............very small number..............+......very small number....<<....big number...x....kinda small number


Can you make good beer w/out sanitation? Of course. It just may not be optimal.
 
I wont even get into the sanitizing part. I am a cleaning fanatic. I can understand repitching yeast that you harvested from another batch but to continually dump new wort onto the same yeast and hop cake 5 batches in a row just sounds ritarded to me. I cant fathom why you would do that. At that point you are just being lazy. and Im sorry but your beer cant be any kind of good. You cant make anything other than the same kind every time because you are leaving all the hop garbage, whatever dregs of the last beer, tired yeast, etc.

Ill stick to pitching new/cleaned yeast and having a variety of different flavors of different beers. Good luck with your beer/yeast smoothies.
 
And have been using the same yeast cake over and over for 4 times now!!! (in a plastic bucket. beer out, other one, in)
All just equipment just washed with soap and water.

No infection, just good beer

thoughts?

Initial thoughts....YUCK

Washing equipment makes sense, soap will not hurt beer if you rinse it off properly, but honestly I'd rather rinse properly and sanitze cause it's easier.

Than again, I suppose it could be like a BBQ, tastes better after you've cooked a few things in it....still sounds gross.
 
So, we're to rely on other people to tell us whether our beer tastes good to us?

Are we making beer to drink or impress others?

Competition=impressing judges.

I make my beer for both.

And I will never willingly drink a beer made by a brewer who brags about not using sanitizer.

But as one other poster said, if OP likes it, carry on!
 
If he likes it, who cares what they'd have to say?

People who respect the BJCP standards and process. People who are competitive. People who know how comprehensive the bjcp judging criteria are. People who like ribbons and medals. People who hold themselves to a standard above and beyond their own palate.

Most of the homebrewers in the country.
 
I think the biggest point is not whether the OP does or does not like his own beer..... the point is that this is a forum where 1000's of brewers come looking for advice - often as beginners. The simple fact of the matter is this: It is a bad idea to follow the procedures the OP is describing. While the OP may like his own beer as it is, and be satisfied with it, anyone who consistently follows his procedure will be making beer that is not as good as it could be.
I would bet that 99% of experienced homebrewers who consistently brew beer that really is good - not just to them, but to almost everyone who drinks it - would all agree that the outlined procedure is a bad idea.
I could care less if an individual brews beer a certain way and it is what they like.... Great for them. But, the OP outlined a bad idea and asked what others thought. There are a lot of people who have a lot of experience that have chimed in so that any beginners realize this is not a good idea.
 
I see all sorts of problems being possible. The fermentor for me only counts as 3 of my probably 20 to 30 items I might sanatize from boil to package. Strike that, I sanatize 90+ just with packaging- if you count caps and bottles seperate.

Fermentor, lid and airlock. I will admit to doing a 'dump on the yeast' before, 3 times now, each for a batch of Skeeterpee(.com) I've not done it for beer. If the fermentor is sanatized, and the beer out is sanatized, then wort in should be ok, doesn't mean it will be, but should be, from a sanatation point of view. As Yooper already said, there are issues also of over pitch.

And the one infection I had was from a bad xfer hose, so just soap and water makes me all ... well not warm and fuzzy, I'll put it that way. Does soap kill bacteria? sure, it might even if properly used sanatize. But this gets to be a sort of 'five second rule'... .we aren't drinking our beer right after a breif contact, it often sits weeks, and the problem is the growth after time, not how much it is in contact with at that instant.
 
There's a distinct difference between making good beer and liking or disliking a beer.

Good beer is a result of solid brewing techniques and practices. Liking or disliking a beer is a function of how one's perception of the beer overlaps with his or her preferences.

Several people like beers that are high in fusels, esters, and diacetyl. However, beers that contain these flaws are not good beers. The reason people like these beers is due to either their inability to detect the off flavors or their preferences for the flaws. Whatever the case may be, beers that contain high levels of these flaws are not good beers.

Making good beer is a very difficult challenge, and I'm still striving to improve my process in efforts to make good beer. With that said, someone that claims to make good beer that doesn't clean or santize and continually pitches on top of several old generations of yeast is most likely not producing good beer. Seeking independent advice from a more experienced brewer/judge would help point out the flaws and would probably benefit this person's perception ability.
 
About 40-50% of my batches are full cake pitches. siphon out on brewday dump the new batch in the carboy (crud ring and all).

so I pitch on a cake a LOT with excellent results.

5 times, same fermentor, no sanitizing isn't even believable.
 
I have not sanitized any thing for the last 4 months!!!

Not even your JUNK?????? disgusting!
;)

I am fine with you sharing this. Sometimes we need a reminder that fatal germs are not lurking everywhere. That said.........why risk it?

About 40-50% of my batches are full cake pitches. siphon out on brewday dump the new batch in the carboy (crud ring and all).

so I pitch on a cake a LOT with excellent results.

5 times, same fermentor, no sanitizing isn't even believable.

I have pitched 18 times on the same cake. I dumped essentially 3/4 of the yeast out each time, so as not to overpitch.

I did wipe the crud ring and mouth of the bucket with a paper towell soaked in no rinse each time.

No believeable???? lol. Suit yourself.
 
A Big Mac tastes pretty good to me most of the time, but I don't kid myself into thinking that makes a Big Mac good food, especially not compared to a dry aged prime cut of steak grilled to a perfect medium rare. I can still enjoy the Big Mac, but I wouldn't run around telling people how good Big Macs are.

I like the beer I make. I have for a long time now. But I still keep trying new techniques and ingredients not because I want something better but because I want to understand how to make it taste exactly the way I want it to taste. That's the skill of a brewer. Not just to be able to recreate a recipe without screwing anything up so bad the beer is undrinkable, but being able to create what you intended to create. Off-flavors are flavors that are produced under specific circumstances. As brewers, if we have control over our techniques, we can prevent them from happening. If you want an off-flavor in your beer then go ahead and put it there. If you don't want it there or you didn't put it there intentionally then it is a flaw, plain and simple. As I gain more skill as a brewer my goal is to control what flavors are in my beer and what flavors are not in my beer.

Not sanitizing and dumping wort on an old yeast cake introduces variables that will very likely prevent me from controlling the way my beer taste to the degree I want to control it. Could I still produce good beer? Yeah, I imagine it would still be drinkable. If I wanted to stop getting better as a brewer once I made drinkable beer I would have stopped brewing a long time ago.
 
For me it's just a probability thing.

Given the amount of time, effort and money that goes into each batch, the cost of an infection is large.
So if there's a low-cost process that reduces my chance of infection to close to zero, it's a no brainer

Cost of infection x probability of infection with sanitizing + cost of sanitizing << cost of infection x probability of infection w/out sanitizing
...Big number....x............very small number..............+......very small number....<<....big number...x....kinda small number


Can you make good beer w/out sanitation? Of course. It just may not be optimal.

I disagree, I say roll the dice and save money on soap and sanitizer and all your time.

If it gets infected give it your MIL so it is not wasted.
 
This is just plain WRONG!

Depending on the soap you are not sanitizing at all and if you use a scented soap and don't rinse really well....

Besides as soon as you rinse it really well it is no longer sanitized.

I understand that rinsing negates the effect, but what soaps don't sanitize?:drunk:
 
I understand that rinsing negates the effect, but what soaps don't sanitize?:drunk:

This is just completely false.

From How To Brew:

Clean - To be free from dirt, stain, or foreign matter.
Sanitize - To kill/reduce spoiling microorganisms to negligible levels.
Sterilize - To eliminate all forms of life, especially microorganisms, either by chemical or physical means.

Soaps only clean.
 
the way I've been brewing for the last 14 years is to dig a big hole in the back yard. I fill it with duck pond water, barley & hops. then I add some compost & let that ferment it. it's been working great!


unrelated note: anyone hear from HessenHelles or Nordeast?
 
Back
Top