stilldragon.com DIY Controller

I am looking into using this setup but I am seeing mixed reviews about the effectiveness of a Potentiometer and Solid State Relay. It seems people think it only turns it on and off and does not actually give you the "precise heater control" they claim on this product.

Anybody using this setup? Success with holding a controlled boil?

It looks just like a DIY version of the one that Highgravitybrew sells for $250. I have that one and it works great! If this one had been out several months ago I might have gone that route, however, I'm very happy with the one I bought. It has no problem with controlling the heat. I crank it up for my EBIAB pot until it reaches 160 which only takes about 15 minutes. I turn it off and every 15 minutes check the temp, a few seconds is all it takes if the temp drops. After I'm done with the mash out of the grains I crank it up to get a rolling boil, if I turn it down the boil stops and I can control the intensity of the boil with the knob.

I built one using a SSR and potentiometer. Works great. The SSR, heat sink, and pot was less than $20 including shipping.

photolimo said:

I am looking into using this setup but I am seeing mixed reviews about the effectiveness of a Potentiometer and Solid State Relay. It seems people think it only turns it on and off and does not actually give you the "precise heater control" they claim on this product.

Anybody using this setup? Success with holding a controlled boil?

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When you say people think it only turns it on/off they are correct, but it is doing this really fast (at 60 times a second) at this fast it is basically giving pricise control depending on the duty cycle it is set to (the potentiometer)

Swamproad said:

I built one using a SSR and potentiometer. Works great. The SSR, heat sink, and pot was less than $20 including shipping.

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Can you post a photo of the build with links?

Would most of these work on a 120v system? From what I have gathered, you can safely downsize if your amperage is in check.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/my-planned-ebiab-keggle-cheap-simple-controller-404174/
What you are describing is what I did, here. I ordered the Kyotto ssvr and pot from eBay ($11), then went to Lowe's for the 10/3 wire ($20), plastic enclosure ($8), 30a motor switch ($10), and strain reliefs ($1). I think my heat sink was from Auber ($15), but you could order one from heatsinkusa.com just as easy. That being said, it doesn't seem to me that stilldragon's price is that bad. Lemme know if you have any questions that I can help with!

Having built one of these things from scratch I would say the StillDragon kit is worth the money. Apart from anything else it has a money back guarantee.

Has anyone else ordered one of these? I ordered two weeks ago and nothing yet. I'm starting to get a little worried.

ccbadd said:

Has anyone else ordered one of these? I ordered two weeks ago and nothing yet. I'm starting to get a little worried.

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I have ordered others things from them, they are pretty slow. Dont worry your stuff will show up.

ccbadd said:

Has anyone else ordered one of these? I ordered two weeks ago and nothing yet. I'm starting to get a little worried.

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I have ordered from them as well and I'll agree they are slow. After a couple weeks I prompted them by Inquiring what the status of my order was (nicely) by email and magically it shipped that day.

photolimo said:

I am looking into using this setup but I am seeing mixed reviews about the effectiveness of a Potentiometer and Solid State Relay. It seems people think it only turns it on and off and does not actually give you the "precise heater control" they claim on this product.

Click to expand...

from the pictures, that does not look like the "phase angle control" they claim on the page. that might be where you are seeing the negative reviews. it appears to be a simple PWM/duty cycle based SSR and potentiometer.

this explains the difference between PWM and phase angle control:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17383

Stilldragon have set up a forum quite recently where you can ask questions about their stuff. You will get knowledgeable answers.

http://www.stilldragon.org

This type of controller is discussed in great detail in threads at homedistiller.org.

MATTD2's comment is completely wrong. This design adds a resistive load to continuously vary the power to the heating element. [A PID works via on/off.]

If your setup only turns on/off, it's not wired properly or it's not the right SSR.
Some SSRs have different control methods.

This looks like a great controller: http://amzn.com/B00BXUCWQG

110V limits the power. I've seen better ones for cheaper on ebay. Search for "scr dimmer 220v 4000w"

Hrmmm...interesting. It's been a while since I have looked at the Still Dragon site. I actually purchased their 240v controller already built. I believe they had a guy in Texas do the build per order. It looks like they only sell the DYI kit now. I can tell you that the one I purchased works perfectly well and the components listed for the DYI are pretty similar to what I bought. Below is a pic:

photolimo said:

This looks like a great controller: http://amzn.com/B00BXUCWQG

Click to expand...

I have a keggle with two 110V 2000 watt elements. I think this would work to control the boil if plugged into one element. The other element would be plugged in but unregulated.

photolimo said:

This looks like a great controller: http://amzn.com/B00BXUCWQG

Click to expand...

Is this just power to the pot and the pot to the element?

varocketry said:

This type of controller is discussed in great detail in threads at homedistiller.org.

MATTD2's comment is completely wrong. This design adds a resistive load to continuously vary the power to the heating element. [A PID works via on/off.]

If your setup only turns on/off, it's not wired properly or it's not the right SSR.
Some SSRs have different control methods.

Click to expand...

Sorry but I don't understand why you think my comment is wrong? A TRIAC (as use in SSR, SCR, Phase Angle Controllers) are either off or on, do you agree with that? It does not add a resisteive load at all.
Can you explain what parts of my post you think are wrong.

A PID uses proportional-integral-derivative control to give more precise control of a process value to a set value without excessive ramp time or overshoot. Most PID use by homebrewers use a 5VDC PWM output to control a SSR. This is something completely different (the control method) to what was being asked(the switching method).

With the linked controller it is using phase angle control like you say, but that is still, as I said, turning the output on/off really fast. Basically it turns it on at some point ("set" by the potentiaometer) through the phase cycle, it then stays on until that one half cycle is completed and the voltage crosses the zero volt again. It then waits to turn on again when it hits the set point again = turning on/off really fast, not adding a resistive load.

more info - http://www.learnabout-electronics.org/diodes_07.php

kosmokramer said:

Is this just power to the pot and the pot to the element?

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Yep, as that "pot" has all the other cicuitry (ScR, etc.) already wired for you underneath the stainless shroud.

Wouldn't the wattage on the SCR Controller need to mach the elements wattage or exceed it?

Mattd2 is right. Phase angle relays have a nice convenience feature that allows you to simply tie a potentiometer to the SSR's input and control the duty cycle. Crydom sells some very expensive ones, but the Still Dragon kit is very cheap and does the same thing. Yes, it works.

Erbe said:

Wouldn't the wattage on the SCR Controller need to mach the elements wattage or exceed it?

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Yep, just like any electronics/electrical equipment match the correct voltage and stay under the rate current. With these I would say it is best to greatly oversize them (+2x current rating) as they have been known to not be of the best constrcution.

This looks like it might handle 5500 watts They don't list max Amperage on these controllers
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00C4A1UYO/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

@Thickhead That looks like an excellent controller, do you have a link?

alien said:

@Thickhead That looks like an excellent controller, do you have a link?

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I purchased it from Still Dragon about a year ago. It looks like they are no longer selling the pre-built controller. If you call them they might be able to put you in touch with their guy in Texas that was building them during the time they were selling the pre-built controllers. I remember the guy that was building them was a fairly consistent contributor on their forums. I will see if I can find my email correspondences with him from my build. I think I remember paying about $250 or $300 bucks for it. You could probably build one for much cheaper than that.

EDIT: Sent you a PM with his email addy

Thanks, apparently he is redesigning the controllers but will be back selling them pretty soon.

I still have not received my order. I did email Larry and he responded promptly saying it would go out ASAP.

The EBAY 10,000w controller thing went poof.

So I'm trying this triac/diac design now.

Are you sure you want the main switch to cut the Neutral wire? My understanding is that the Neutral wire should be uninterrupted. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than me can chime in.

The exclusive role of the neutral wire in this implementation is to provide 120v to the Contactor through the switches as I chose a 120v coil for the Contactor.

I suppose you could only switch one side but why? If they're off, I want it all to be off. The role of the contactor is to completely isolate the 240v feeds when you want them off.

That's my layman's understanding.

varocketry said:

The exclusive role of the neutral wire in this implementation is to provide 120v to the Contactor through the switches as I chose a 120v coil for the Contactor.

I suppose you could only switch one side but why? If they're off, I want it all to be off. The role of the contactor is to completely isolate the 240v feeds when you want them off.

That's my layman's understanding.

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I haven't used one, but why couldn't you just use a contactor with a 240V coil?

I think it's a decent idea to have the neutral in there anyway in case there's anything else you want the 120V for (pumps), so I guess I'm just talking theory here.

Like this: http://hdsupplysolutions.com/shop/product-30_amp_2_pole_230_240v_contactor-252014

My understanding of how GFCI works is that it detects an imbalance between the current in the hot wire and the current returning through the neutral wire. My concern would be if there is a fault in your device that connects a hot wire to ground it might not trip the GFCI because the neutral wire is disconnected.

With using a controller like this, since there is 1 hot going directly to the coil and the other running through the SSR, would the element still be on and creating heat even if the pot is dialed all the way down?

fatbluefrog said:

With using a controller like this, since there is 1 hot going directly to the coil and the other running through the SSR, would the element still be on and creating heat even if the pot is dialed all the way down?

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No, the power won't be flowing. The potential is there, but there is no current unless it gets to ground (a short) or the other hot when the SSR closes AND the contactor is closed.

stlbeer said:

No, the power won't be flowing. The potential is there, but there is no current unless it gets to ground (a short) or the other hot when the SSR closes AND the contactor is closed.

Click to expand...

Excellent thanks for the feedback. I'll let you guys know how the build goes.

I'm currently building a Stilldragon style controller for my BK as well and one thing I am adding is a DPST 30A switch.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_89198-334-3...uctId=3568846&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1

This switch includes an on indicator as well. When the switch is in the off position, both sides of the line (L1 & L2) will be disconnected from the SSR (L1) and the heating element (L2). It isn't technically necessary, but it gives me a mechanical switch in the circuit.