Noob - All Grain Setup

I have been interested in homebrewing for a number of years now and am ready to finally take the steps necessary to begin. I am fascinated by beer and would like to go straight into AG brewing, rather than starting with extract. I have been reading a few books and following this forum closely for a couple months now and am ready to purchase my equipment. I have looked into many options from a cheap cooler setup to building a brewstand similar to the Brutus 10. The other day I came across a Craigslist sale that includes "everything needed for homebrewing" (per the seller), and it caught my eye. I have contacted him and received a detailed list of everything he will be including, and it appears to be complete to me, but I am completely new to this process. I was wondering if some of you could review the list and price and let me know if you think this is a good deal. I am told that all products are in good working order, and he has also offered to show me his brewing process and show that everything works before we finalize the purchase. Thanks for all of your help.

Price: $2500 - negotiable

Equipment list:
1 Hopback
1 wort chiller
1 plate filter
misc filter pads
1 aerater system (stainless stone)
9 Pepsi kegs
2 Coke kegs
7 Glass fermenters
1 Schmidling Malt mill w/ motor
3 Burners natural gas
1 15 gal hot liquor pot w/ thermeter
1 15 gal mash tun w/ false bottom and recirculation and thermeter
1 20 gal boil kettle
1 pump
2 Scales
4 Ehrlenmyer flasks for yeast starters
2 Beakers
1 Fridge temp controller
1 pH meter
1 Hydrometer
11 Cases of homebrewing grade bottles
1 counter-pressure bottle filler
1 500ml pyres graduated cylinder for hydrometer


Thanks again,
Jake

I think there are two different questions you need to be asking here. Is this a complete enough setup? Absolutely. I've been brewing for 8 years and my system is primitive compared to this. You really should not ever need to buy anything again with this setup (I am assuming he's including disconnects for the kegs and whatnot).

The real question though is do you want to go this deep into it before you've tried your hand at brewing before? This is a massive investment to go into a hobby cold. I mean, you know your budget, and it' snot my place to tell you how much to spend. I just think you could get into brewing for a good bit less than this.

You don't really need about 25% of this stuff, and from just a cursury look, I think this guy is overpricing his stuff. I would never buy used stuff for any more than 40-60% current new retail, and it looks like this guy is priced closer to 120% of current new retail.

Without knowing the brands, here's about an average new retail for this stuff:

1 Hopback - $70.00
1 wort chiller - $70.00
1 plate filter - $50.00
misc filter pads
1 aerater system (stainless stone) - $40.00
9 Pepsi kegs (I'm sure these were bought used) - $280.00
2 Coke kegs (I'm sure these were bought used) - $80.00
7 Glass fermenters - $280.00
1 Schmidling Malt mill w/ motor - $200.00
3 Burners natural gas - $150.00
1 15 gal hot liquor pot w/ thermeter - $150.00
1 15 gal mash tun w/ false bottom and recirculation and thermeter - $200.00
1 20 gal boil kettle - $125.00
1 pump - $100.00
2 Scales - $50.00
4 Ehrlenmyer flasks for yeast starters $40.00
2 Beakers - $20.00
1 Fridge temp controller - $70.00
1 pH meter $70.00
1 Hydrometer $10.00
11 Cases of homebrewing grade bottles $130.00
1 counter-pressure bottle filler $60.00
1 500ml pyres graduated cylinder for hydrometer $8.00

So I have new retail at about $2250.00, 40-60% for used should be about $900-1350.

I'm sure this guy paid more for this stuff than $2250 over the years, but that's pretty close to the CURRENT retail. I wouldn't offer any more than $1500.00 for this stuff.

INHO, however, if you are just starting out, you could be brewing GREAT all grain beer with plenty of room to upgrade for about $300.00 in brand new equipment, then start adding other items from there. 90% of us experienced brewers don't really have any need for 11 corny kegs, a hopback, a plate filter, 7 fermentors, 3 burners, 6 flasks, a counter-pressure bottle filler, and 11 cases of bottles. I don't have, desire, or need that stuff, and the beer I brew is really good!

I have about $700-800 total invested in all of my equipment, and that includes temperature control on a beverage cooler, a brew stand, a 11 gallon brew pot, a 15.5 gallon keggle, 6 fermentors (of which I really only use 3 at a time), and a kegerator with three corny kegs (through I only have a two-tap system).

You could spend $500-1000 and have a better setup than most experienced brewers on this site. Don't spend $2500 for a bunch of crap you don't need.

If you want suggestions to get started on All-Grain for a fraction of this price, let us know!

That's a decently good deal, but you can make a very functional system for far less if you are handy. Especially if you have never brewed before, I would say hold off on the heavy artillery.

TopherM said:

INHO, however, if you are just starting out, you could be brewing GREAT all grain beer with plenty of room to upgrade for about $300.00 in brand new equipment, then start adding other items from there. 90% of us experienced brewers don't really have any need for 11 corny kegs, a hopback, a plate filter, 7 fermentors, 3 burners, 6 flasks, a counter-pressure bottle filler, and 11 cases of bottles. I don't have, desire, or need that stuff, and the beer I brew is really good!

Click to expand...

Also, THIS.

Allan,

Thank you for your input. And yes, I was trying to ask whether or not this is truly a complete setup, so thanks for answering that.

As for the budget, it will be a mutual purchase between myself and a friend of mine. I understand that this is a big investment for someone new to brewing, but I have been highly interested for a number of years and have participated in a few extract brew days with friends. I am more interested in learning about the brewing process and controlling the taste than I am about simply "making my own beer", and I think this is what turned my off to extract. The cost is one of the major reasons I held back from jumping in earlier, and I understand that I can do a cooler conversion setup and bottle my beer for under $500 for everything, but I would really like to be able to do 10g because I will be doing it with a friend, and we would like to be able to have some extra to share. Also, if I were to have a major change of heart and hated the hobby (which I highly doubt) there is a solid secondary market where I could recover nearly all of my expenses other than brewday supplies.

All in all, I am ready to make the investment to have a solid all grain setup, I just want to be sure that what I am spending my money on is a complete, quality product that I will be able to use for years to come.

Thanks again for all additional input,
Jake

TopherM said:

You don't really need about 25% of this stuff, and from just a cursury look, I think this guy is overpricing his stuff. I would never buy used stuff for any more than 40-60% current new retail, and it looks like this guy is priced closer to 120% of current new retail.

Without knowing the brands, here's about an average new retail for this stuff:

1 Hopback - $70.00
1 wort chiller - $70.00
1 plate filter - $50.00
misc filter pads
1 aerater system (stainless stone) - $40.00
9 Pepsi kegs - $280.00
2 Coke kegs - $80.00
7 Glass fermenters - $280.00
1 Schmidling Malt mill w/ motor - $200.00
3 Burners natural gas - $150.00
1 15 gal hot liquor pot w/ thermeter - $150.00
1 15 gal mash tun w/ false bottom and recirculation and thermeter - $200.00
1 20 gal boil kettle - $125.00
1 pump - $100.00
2 Scales - $50.00
4 Ehrlenmyer flasks for yeast starters $40.00
2 Beakers - $20.00
1 Fridge temp controller - $70.00
1 pH meter $70.00
1 Hydrometer $10.00
11 Cases of homebrewing grade bottles $130.00
1 counter-pressure bottle filler $60.00
1 500ml pyres graduated cylinder for hydrometer $8.00

So I have new retail at about $2250.00, 40-60% for used should be about $900-1350.

I'm sure this guy paid more for this stuff than $2250, but that's about the CURRENT retail. I wouldn't offer any more than $1500.00 for this stuff.

INHO, however, if you are just starting out, you could be brewing GREAT all grain beer with plenty of room to upgrade for about $300.00 in brand new equipment, then start adding other items from there. 90% of us experienced brewers don't really have any need for 11 corny kegs, a hopback, a plate filter, 7 fermentors, 3 burners, 6 flasks, a counter-pressure bottle filler, and 11 cases of bottles. I don't have, desire, or need that stuff, and the beer I brew is really good!

You could spend $500-1000 and have a better setup than most experienced brewers on this site. Don't spend $2500 for a bunch of crap you don't need.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the detailed breakdown. I think my biggest fear is not knowing what to start with, and how easy it will be to add onto. I really dont want to spend 750 on a solid "starter setup" and then trash most of it when I decide to upgrade. What would you suggest as a solid starting point for an AG system, that I could add onto at a later date without sinking all of my earlier expenses?

Thanks,
jake

Monstar said:

That's a decently good deal, but you can make a very functional system for far less if you are handy. Especially if you have never brewed before, I would say hold off on the heavy artillery.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestion. I would consider myself to be fairly handy, and I tend to pick up on things quickly. However, I am not familiar with any type of welding and I see a lot people cutting, drilling, and welding parts to convert kegs, add thermometers, insert release valves, etc.

This is the part that would worry me. The last thing I want to do is invest money into a quality product and then wreck it when I try to work on it. This is perhaps my biggest pull toward purchasing a complete package.

Thanks,
Jake

I like the fact that my equipment is growing with my knowledge and my need. Even if I could go back and buy everything I accumulated at once to save a few hundreds, I would not do it.

I am still using almost everything I got from the start. The only exception is the first pot I got. It was a 5gallon pot, payed $40 at target. Now I brew with a 15gallon one. It is a little bit more than what I need but I know that if I want to upgrade my brewing process, I will be able to reuse it.

So maybe you see this offer as an opportunity to save some money over time, but I am pretty sure that you will want to make some changes to it anyway, and maybe replace some parts (like tubing for the kegerator/keezer). You might realize that glass carboys are heavy and breaks easily, and you should go plastic. Things like that will make your experience more expensive.

Start smaller and you will get the equipment that is right for you, once you know what you need/want.

JDoane2424 said:

Thanks for the suggestion. I would consider myself to be fairly handy, and I tend to pick up on things quickly. However, I am not familiar with any type of welding and I see a lot people cutting, drilling, and welding parts to convert kegs, add thermometers, insert release valves, etc.

This is the part that would worry me. The last thing I want to do is invest money into a quality product and then wreck it when I try to work on it. This is perhaps my biggest pull toward purchasing a complete package.

Thanks,
Jake

Click to expand...

I can feel that for sure. I can't weld either, but with a drill and screwdriver I have built an extremely simple yet effective electric brewing system. You can get weldless ball valve kits for your kettles. I use aluminum pots as well, which saves me money, and using electricity made it so I could build my brew stand out of wood, which cost me literally 20 bucks.

And the great thing is you have already found this website, which has an AMAZING DIY section. With a little research, you can definitely do it!

Monstar said:

I can feel that for sure. I can't weld either, but with a drill and screwdriver I have built an extremely simple yet effective electric brewing system. You can get weldless ball valve kits for your kettles. I use aluminum pots as well, which saves me money, and using electricity made it so I could build my brew stand out of wood, which cost me literally 20 bucks.

And the great thing is you have already found this website, which has an AMAZING DIY section. With a little research, you can definitely do it!

Click to expand...

If you dont mind me asking, how did you go about building your electric setup? This has always interested me because I could do it in my basement, half of which is unfinished and would make for a perfect homebrewery! What equipment did you purchase? Where did you get the plans? and how advanced would I need to be with wiring, etc.?

Thanks a lot,
Jake

So my setup is basically one 1500 watt heat stick (instructions here http://www.cedarcreeknetworks.com/heatstick.htm) and a 3 tier wooden stand that I just kinda threw together. So my process is...

1. Put heat stick in top tier to heat up my strike water. When it is heated up,
2. Mash in. Ball valve on my HLT (top tier pot) lets water down through a tube to my cooler mash tun on the second tier. When my mash is done,
3. Sparge. Another ball valve on the cooler leads to my boil pot. Once I have all the wort I need, I just put the heat stick in boil!

Really easy. The heatstick and stand together cost $50.

JDoane2424 said:

As for the budget, it will be a mutual purchase between myself and a friend of mine. I understand that this is a big investment for someone new to brewing, but I have been highly interested for a number of years and have participated in a few extract brew days with friends

Click to expand...

Great so you have done some brewing or been brew assistant and have an idea of what you are getting into there. For equipment, lots could be talked about. One thing you mention that I want to highlight is 'mutual purchase'... Right nwo you and your friend are living in the same area, what happens when one of you moves?
There have been a few threads about teh 'our brew group is breaking up what do we do'... What you do is when you buy a lot of gear like this identify who owns what or how you will deal with a 'break up' later on. I'm assuming a friendly like new job, not a hating one anothers guts. But in both cases a pre agreement is strongly recomended.

As for gear most often replaced items are the Kettles, HLT's, MLT and burners due to size upgrades/changes. A standard fermentor being for 5 gallons is about as heavy as anyone of us really wants to lift at 5g, the wort is 40lb. at 10g it would be 80g +fermentor weight. So basically it is the 'buying more of the 5gal size' to expand.

Same with kegs, although I suppose a increased kegorator size might be desirable.

Most of what is on the list isn't needed/could be bought later, and is of the 'standard size' Yeah the MLT,HLT and kettle are oversized capable of going 10 or even 15 gal batch, but all the rest is just more of the standard size.