Hopbursting

Brewer's Friend 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
B

brewt00l

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2006
Messages
3,725
Reaction score
18
Location
Doylestown, PA
I planned out an IPA using Magnum, Simcoe and Summit hops and then I recalled wanting to try out the hopburst idea that has been mentioned several times on the green board (http://www.brewboard.com/index.php?showtopic=26859).

Has anyone tried it and if so, what are your thoughts on the process? How did your hopbursted beer age from a flavor perspective compared to a more traditionally hopped example?
 
Sounds fishy to me. If I'm not mistaken, it takes high temps to finagle the bittering compounds out of hops. This method of adding no bittering hops, then overloading with flavor/aroma/dry hops seems like it'd produce a sickly sweet beer that was overtaken by hop flavor and aroma.

I guess the only reason to try such a think would be if you don't like bitter beer, but you do like the smell and taste of hops.
 
Actually The IBU's would be the same if you loaded the flavor hops as per the article.

Batch Size (Gal): 5.50 Wort Size (Gal): 5.50
Total Grain (Lbs): 13.00
Anticipated OG: 1.067 Plato: 16.29
Anticipated SRM: 9.4
Anticipated IBU: 66.3
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes
Click to expand...

First brews I made were done like this but not on an ipa scale. I didn't understand bittering hop additions and there were no fancy interweb in abundance at the time. Since the boil was annoying my parents I did 30 min boils with loads of hops.
 
Yeah, that site is a bit hard on the eyes...

The basic concept is to minimize the bittering hops (or omit entirely) and load up on the 30 minute and under hop additions. The feedback I have have seen so far has been very positive and many say that it really showcases the hop flavors. The missing bittering addition appears to go undetected/unnoticed as a result of the IBUs from the other additions.
 
It makes sense. You are loosing a lot of hop efficiency here though. You are extracting a little bitterness out of a lot of hops. I think that you would definitely get a hoppy tasting IPA, but would it actually be any hoppier than if you took some of those hops, cut back on them, and boiled them for 60 minutes? There will be a lot of flavors competing for your taste buds and only the strongest will win and coincidently these are probably the hop flavors you would taste if you did it traditionally, imo.
 
Evan! said:
Sounds fishy to me. If I'm not mistaken, it takes high temps to finagle the bittering compounds out of hops. This method of adding no bittering hops, then overloading with flavor/aroma/dry hops seems like it'd produce a sickly sweet beer that was overtaken by hop flavor and aroma.

I guess the only reason to try such a think would be if you don't like bitter beer, but you do like the smell and taste of hops.
Click to expand...

well, it appears that the concept does waste a lot of hop potential by the shorter boil times but the IBUs/flavors/aromas compensate. IIRC there are a few award winning recipes that came out of that thread and its companion on the northern brewer forum.
 
Beerrific said:
It makes sense. You are loosing a lot of hop efficiency here though. You are extracting a little bitterness out of a lot of hops. I think that you would definitely get a hoppy tasting IPA, but would it actually be any hoppier than if you took some of those hops, cut back on them, and boiled them for 60 minutes? There will be a lot of flavors competing for your taste buds and only the strongest will win and coincidently these are probably the hop flavors you would taste if you did it traditionally, imo.
Click to expand...

The thing that rekindled my interest was Troegs Nugget Nectar...96 IBUs, massive hoppy flavors and aroma while the bitterness doesn't seem anywhere even close to that IBU level. With the Summit and Simcoe hops I was planning on using in this batch, I would really like to bring those out to the front in a big way...this sounds like and interesting technique.
 
I guess I should read the recipe more carefully. I still see 15-30 minute additions as bittering hops in some sense. I figured it was just a matter of only adding stuff under 10 mins and then dryhopping the hell out of it. But if you're adding stuff at 30, you're still getting bitterness.
 
Evan! said:
I guess I should read the recipe more carefully. I still see 15-30 minute additions as bittering hops in some sense. I figured it was just a matter of only adding stuff under 10 mins and then dryhopping the hell out of it. But if you're adding stuff at 30, you're still getting bitterness.
Click to expand...

The thing I am starting to wonder is how the beer ages....I always seem to sense a hop reduction in the nose first, flavor second and bitterness level last as my hoppier beers age. This kinds brings me around to wonder if as a beer brewed with this technique ages, is it going to really lose its appeal quickly.
 
My Murder In The Red Barn recipe has a very modest 60-minute addition, then some huge additions later in the boil. I kinda chickened out of adding ALL the hops near the end (I also did a modest 30 minute addition), but I got plenty of bitterness that came mostly from the later additions and it's got a huge amount of hop flavor and aroma.
 
IMO this should be less of a worry about npt having enough bitterness and more of a worry about having an overpowered flavor/aroma.

Use a high alpah hop that is also known for it's flav/aroma abilities and you can't go wrong here.

Columbus is one. There are others.
 
Through some digging around I noticed that apparently Jamil wrote an article for the May/June '06 issue of Zymurgy on the late hop/hopburst technique. If anyone has that available, I would appreciate a summary! :mug:

edit: I see that this is also mentioned in the link above
 
Can't help you there, but I was going to throw in another technique.... first wort hopping.

Reports indicate that first wort hopping also helps to fix the hops flavors into the beer.
 
A pissing match between two posters? I can't call that good evidence on either side. I'll stand by Randy Mosher's opinion until I've managed to accumulate one of my own.


I have a Pale Ale recipe that should be good for experimentation. That should be about 4 or 5 batches from now...
 
Toot said:
A pissing match between two posters? I can't call that good evidence on either side. I'll stand by Randy Mosher's opinion until I've managed to accumulate one of my own.


I have a Pale Ale recipe that should be good for experimentation. That should be about 4 or 5 batches from now...
Click to expand...

JZ is a pretty experienced brewer and an oft cited "expert" hisself...but either way, from what I understand of FWH, the primary benefits are smoother bittering and aroma properties and it's recommended by many to use your finishing/low alpha hops....a refinement of the hop properties rather than really kicking it up and out front, correct?
 
brewt00l said:
a refinement of the hop properties rather than really kicking it up and out front, correct?
Click to expand...

I would concur. That is my understanding. If you want to get a little more aggressive with it, add pellets to straight everclear. It makes a nice green emerald color.

Hold in dark space for a week. Then take the liquid and hold onto it. Take the solids and do a FWH with them.

Add the hop-infused alcohol at bottling time. Holy sweet jeebus do you ever get a ridiculous hop aroma doing that... I'm looking forward to more experimentation on this as well...
 
Toot said:
I would concur. That is my understanding. If you want to get a little more aggressive with it, add pellets to straight everclear. It makes a nice green emerald color.

Hold in dark space for a week. Then take the liquid and hold onto it. Take the solids and do a FWH with them.

Add the hop-infused alcohol at bottling time. Holy sweet jeebus do you ever get a ridiculous hop aroma doing that... I'm looking forward to more experimentation on this as well...
Click to expand...

that sounds....interesting, to say the least:fro:
 
Yeah, FW Hopping works. So does mash hopping. Never have found a scientific explanation for either.

Mash hopping is a very inefficent use of hops though. I made a beer that had ton of mash hops and no other hops excpet for bittering. 90 min boil. I brought it over to the beer tasting club to try out and they all remarked about the great saaz flavor and nose.
 
It's all in the equations. As long as you get good circulation in your boil you can indeed compensate. The trick is making sure it works out the way you intend.
 
zoebisch01 said:
It's all in the equations. As long as you get good circulation in your boil you can indeed compensate. The trick is making sure it works out the way you intend.
Click to expand...


which point is this in response to?
 
i've done a 3 oz addition of cascades at 15 mins into a golden ale and im very pleased with the results :fro: . Its has the right amount of bittering and the flavour and aroma are the best i've acheived.
Also very easy to do rather than a 100 and 1 hop additions that i see in some recipes.
 
Oh yea....for some followup I did a modified hopburst recipe this past weekend with my IPA and a FWH on my stout so I am curious to see how these two brews turnout.
 
brewt00l said:
which point is this in response to?
Click to expand...

The first post you made as it pertains to balancing bitterness. If you follow the equations you pretty much can still get your target bitterness even if you only do late additions. My point was that as long as you have good circulation when you toss the hops in. And I think you really need to be careful on the timing as even a minute or two difference could potentially make a world of difference as far as extracting the AA's is concerned.
 
So how would you guys think of Nugget as a hop burst hop? I have a lot of them and I am thinking about brewing up and All nugget hop burst IPA. Would Nugget have enough flavor and aroma qualities?
 

Similar threads

Bobby_M
Amarillo + Citra + Simcoe = GROSS
Replies
36
Views
4K
Deadalus
Deadalus
Brooothru
Low Enzyme/Low ABV Brewing + Party Gyle
Replies
23
Views
985
BrewnWKopperKat
BrewnWKopperKat
P
What happened to IPA?
2
Replies
49
Views
3K
Clint Yeastwood
Clint Yeastwood
jrsdws
Help Me With Water Chemistry
2
Replies
46
Views
3K
Hoochin'Fool
Hoochin'Fool
U
Dry Astringent/Bitter Finish
Replies
13
Views
1K
CascadesBrewer
CascadesBrewer
Yakima 300

Latest posts

Back
Top