Primary Fermenter Only?

I've had batch #5 (dark ale) in my primary fermenter for about 2 weeks now and have been debating on whether or not I should rack it to the secondary. I'm not sure if I should transfer it, as I am guessing that the bitterness of some of my previous batches has been due to sanitation of equipment.

I'm not planning on fermenting for a long period of time, like a lager; really only planning on fermenting for maybe a month before bottling. I do plan on adding some American Oak chips (which have been marinating in Courvoisier for about 10-12 days) for the last 10 days of fermentation.

Here's my question, I guess: I've read that if the beer is kept in contact with the yeast sediment for too long of a time, off flavors can ocurr. How relavent is this in regards to an ale that only ferments for a month?
Thanks in advance.

Leaving your beer in the primary for a month should not be a problem (the off flavors really refer to leaving it for extended periods); however, since you mention adding oak, you might want to go to secondary. I have never oaked before, but whenever I do anything post fermentation (like fruit or dry hop) I always use a secondary, I assume oak would be the same.

I would recomend a long secondary maturation, especially because you want to "oak" the beer. Wow, Courvoisier, I never though anyone would use it for oak chips, its one of my favorites!

Iordz said:

Wow, Courvoisier, I never though anyone would use it for oak chips, its one of my favorites!

Click to expand...

That's the truth...I'd rather soak myself in it!

Hmmnn...maybe I'll try putting Remy Martin Louis XIII in my airlock.

Louis XIII

Well, I decided to go with Courvoisier because we had some kicking around. Figured "why not?"

I'm gathering that the general concensus is to rack to a secondary if I plan on using the oak chips. What would be the cons about sticking with the primary and using the chips?

And thanks for the responses.

Myke said:

I'm not sure if I should transfer it, as I am guessing that the bitterness of some of my previous batches has been due to sanitation of equipment.

Click to expand...

While bacterial infections can cause bitter off flavors, I think in your shoes, I might really want to narrow down the cause of your problem independent of the secondary/primary question.

I agree with you completely. That's kind of why I am hesitant about racking. If the bitterness I've been experiencing is not present when I don't rack, then I need to spend a lot more time with sanitization. If it is still present, then I know that I have to focus in on something else that is causing this to happen.

Does anyone else know of other reasons for the bitterness? Sorry to pester with question after question.

Myke said:

I agree with you completely. That's kind of why I am hesitant about racking. If the bitterness I've been experiencing is not present when I don't rack, then I need to spend a lot more time with sanitization. If it is still present, then I know that I have to focus in on something else that is causing this to happen.

Does anyone else know of other reasons for the bitterness? Sorry to pester with question after question.

Click to expand...

If you are using the same racking cane and lines when you rack to the secondary and when you rack to the bottling bucket, the only variable you are removing from the equation by eliminating a secondary/clearing step would be your secondary vessel/bung/airlock/whathaveyou. Do you have reason to suspect bacteria infection of your vessel/bung/airlock/whathaveyou? They are generally pretty easy to sanitize compared to some of the other equipment still in the chain.

What exactly do you mean by bitterness? need more details...example of recipes, process, ect.

Well, my last batch is a prime example of what it is I am speaking about.

9 g. Burton water crystals
1 lb. 0.1 oz. Crushed Crystal English Malt
7 lbs. John Bull dark liquid malt (hopped)
1 oz. Fuggles plugs (AA 5%)
0.5 oz. Fuggles pellets (AA 4.5%)
1 vile White Labs British Ale Yeast (liquid)

Each time I make a batch, I feel like I'm doing a better job with the wort. The only thing that I did "wrong" this time was that the wort temp. was about 65 F when I pitched the yeast; should have been at least 5 degrees higher for this type of yeast.

All hops were added at the same time and boiled at a decent tempurature for 45 minutes.

First stage fermented for 6 days. Second stage, fermented for about 12 days, then I bottled (used 5/6 cup of priming sugar from hombrew shop, so no additives there). After 2 weeks I tried one and there was no carbination. I read on here that the beer probably still needed some more time, as the temperature of my apartment is usually around 65 F. I also rolled the bottles slightly to get the yeast mixed up some and waited longer. It's been about 4-5 weeks since they were bottled and there's still a little carb. and a bitter taste lingering in the background. Head is okay. Smell is decent. Initial taste is pretty good, but that bitter bite in the background doesn't seem right. This was an attempt to remake one of my earlier batches; I improved on the body and failed on the bitterness (it kind of detracts from the beer's taste). My last few batches have had this same taste, regardless of whether I'm brewing amber or dark ale.

It's been kind of frustrating, but I demand of myself to resolve this issue.

Well, I went ahead and racked to my secondary Sunday. It had been in the primary for about 33 days. I also added some chips (about 0.50 oz) to the secondary.

After reading a bunch of other posts, I think I know what may have been causing some of the off flavors in my last few batches: splashing. When I racked before, I tried to get the beer to flow down the sides of the carboy, which was causing a little bit of spashing, but I didn't think it would have as dramatic of an effect as it did. This time, I put the hose at the bottom and left it there until all of the beer was transferred.

We'll see how that goes in about another month. Again, thanks for everyone's input, in this postin and others.

Myke said:

Well, I went ahead and racked to my secondary Sunday. It had been in the primary for about 33 days. I also added some chips (about 0.50 oz) to the secondary.

After reading a bunch of other posts, I think I know what may have been causing some of the off flavors in my last few batches: splashing. When I racked before, I tried to get the beer to flow down the sides of the carboy, which was causing a little bit of spashing, but I didn't think it would have as dramatic of an effect as it did. This time, I put the hose at the bottom and left it there until all of the beer was transferred.

We'll see how that goes in about another month. Again, thanks for everyone's input, in this postin and others.

Click to expand...

Excessive splashing when transferring to a secondary would oxidize and that is generally described as a wet cardboard flavor....

Are you using burton salts in all the beers in question??

brewt00l said:

Excessive splashing when transferring to a secondary would oxidize and that is generally described as a wet cardboard flavor....

Are you using burton salts in all the beers in question??

Click to expand...

Yes, I am using the burton salts in all of my batches. I'm trying to be as consistant as possible with the basics how things are being done, and but trying to improve upon the areas where I think could have been done better.

I've never chewed on wet cardboard before, but I can imagine the taste. The taste I've been experiencing in my last few batches is more of a bitter taste. the things I've read have only spoken about "off" flavors, but I'm not sure what specifically will cause what off flavors. Maybe I'll go home and soak some card board to figure out what wet cardboard tastes like and then compare, lol.

Myke said:

Yes, I am using the burton salts in all of my batches. I'm trying to be as consistant as possible with the basics how things are being done, and but trying to improve upon the areas where I think could have been done better.

Click to expand...

Any you know that they do, right?

brewt00l said:

Any you know that they do, right?

Click to expand...

Yeah. They were suggested to be used by a company from just outside where I live, so I assume they know what the water quality is like. I live in Boston and it isn't like we have the greatest water system, so they treat the hell out of it. I could spend a lot of time running 5 gallons of water through a small Brita system, but from my understanding it isn't good to use filtered water. The water salts are supposed to give a balance to the water.

Am I right in think about this? Would you suggest that I do something else?

Myke said:

Yeah. They were suggested to be used by a company from just outside where I live, so I assume they know what the water quality is like. I live in Boston and it isn't like we have the greatest water system, so they treat the hell out of it. I could spend a lot of time running 5 gallons of water through a small Brita system, but from my understanding it isn't good to use filtered water. The water salts are supposed to give a balance to the water.

Am I right in think about this? Would you suggest that I do something else?

Click to expand...

Burton salts and gypsum will harden the water and in turn, change the bitterness and hop character. I would brew a batch sans burton salts and see if your bitterness problem is eliminated/reduced.


http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter4-2.html

brewt00l said:

Burton salts and gypsum will harden the water and in turn, change the bitterness and hop character. I would brew a batch sans burton salts and see if your bitterness problem is eliminated/reduced.


http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter4-2.html

Click to expand...

Holy crap! I've tried reading up on this in some of the books I have, as well as this site, and didn't realize that those water salts would be adding to the bitterness! I thought they were supposed to help balance things out. DOH! Well, that tactic will have to wait until I brew the next batch once I move at the end of this month. I'll be back to give my results. Thanks a bunch for the advice, brewt00l! Much appreciated, as it was much needed.

Myke said:

Holy crap! I've tried reading up on this in some of the books I have, as well as this site, and didn't realize that those water salts would be adding to the bitterness! I thought they were supposed to help balance things out. DOH! Well, that tactic will have to wait until I brew the next batch once I move at the end of this month. I'll be back to give my results. Thanks a bunch for the advice, brewt00l! Much appreciated, as it was much needed.

Click to expand...

No problem...I use a bit of gypsum in my IPAs after brewing several and they just didn't seem to have the hop impact they should have had. It makes a pretty big impact IMHO. Once I saw the burton crystals, it made sense.