Secondary, weird tastes, and flat beer

I am getting generally confused and frustrated with how some (most) of my brews are turning out, and I need help.

I am an extract brewer (currently), and so far most of my brews have had a weird taste (kind of medicinal), and have been flat.

I have been secondary fermenting for two weeks, I have used the same LME with dried ale yeast.

The question is, after two weeks in the secondary, is there enough active yeast to produce CO2 at bottling? My thought is that if my yeast are all dead or dormant then there would be no CO2 (hence flat beer), which would result in oxygen contamination in the bottle leading to an off taste / infection.

Do most of you guys use dried ale yeast or WYeast? Which is better?

BlightyBrewer said:

The question is, after two weeks in the secondary, is there enough active yeast to produce CO2 at bottling?

Do most of you guys use dried ale yeast or WYeast? Which is better?

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Definately should be enough yeast for carbonation...how much priming sugar are you using?

Dry yeast is fine if you can find a strain that's appropriate for what you want to brew. The advantage of liquid yeasts is a greater variety.

Medicinal flavors are produced by the interaction of chlorine with yeast-producted phenols. Pre-boil your water to remove chlorine. Use boiled rinse water after sanitizing.

I have been secondary fermenting for two weeks, I have used the same LME with dried ale yeast.

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This seems to imply you've been priming in the secondary. Priming sugar or DME are added to the priming bucket just before bottling. There should be plenty of yeast left to product the CO2.

I use dried yeasts almost exclusively. They have very high cell counts, which gets the fermentation going quickly and add almost no flavors. There are many more types of liquid yeasts, but I make darker ales where the flavors are from the malts and hops. Pales and lagers will benefit most from careful selection of liquid yeasts.

After you finish the primary fermentation what are you doing?

Priming/Bottling/Kegging?

El Pistolero said:

Definately should be enough yeast for carbonation...how much priming sugar are you using?

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1/2 teaspoon per pint (20 tspns)

orfy said:

After you finish the primary fermentation what are you doing?

Priming/Bottling/Kegging?

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Transferring to secondary for two weeks, then transferring to keg with priming sugar, gently stirring, and drawing off ten bottles before sealing the keg (and capping the bottles)

What is the temperature you are storing at? Is it conducive to maintaining activation of your yeast strain?

Sudster said:

What is the temperature you are storing at? Is it conducive to maintaining activation of your yeast strain?

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About 17-22 Celcius (63-72 F)

I would suggest to try and keep storage temp at 70F-72F for the first week if possible. 63F may be a bit low for quick carbonation. It really is dependent on the strain of yeast and it's temp range.

The medicinal flavo(u)r is generally associated with various phenolic compounds.
The most likely culprit is your water - either fresh from the tap, or when combined with residue from your sanitation process.

If your water (fresh from the tap) smells of chlorine, then I would not consider brewing with it. If they have to add large amounts of chlorine, then there is almost certainly some organic contaminant in the water. Together, these can form chlorophenals, which can result in the medicinal taste. You should be able to get a water analysis from your water supplier.

If your tap water is highly chlorinated, you can filter it with a carbon filter (which is expensive), or you can use bottled water for brewing (which can also be expensive). You may also have some success with boiling all water uncovered for 15 minutes the night before you brew. This will evaporate the excess chlorine.

The second common way of introducing chlorophenals is by using chlorine for sanitizing, and then not adequately rinsing the excess chlorine off before adding the wort. Never sanitize a vessel with bleach, and then drain and cap it without adequate rinsing. This can form crystals of sodium hypochlorite, which will later dissolve in the wort and cause the problem. If you must use bleach, thoroughly rinse with boiled and cooled water immediately after draining the bleach solution.

As for yeast, I used to use the yeast from a bottle of Worthington White Shield very successfully. Decant the beer, and fill the bottle to 2/3 full with a prepared and cooled wort. Mix well, add an airlock, and wait about 5 days for the yeast to multiply and start fermenting, then pitch into the wort when ready.

Good luck

-a.

Thanks you guys, some good advice there.

ajf...I have used tap water so far, and it is heavily chlorinated. I shall switch to bottled / boiled from now on. My first batch was made using bottled, and the medicinal flavour wasn't evident. Thanks for the info...are you a chemist btw?

No, I'm a Software Engineer, but I've been brewing off and on for over 30 years.

Oh, I forgot to mention it, but if you use the White Shield, don't forget to drink the decanted portion after you have added the airlock.

-a.

Check to see if your local water supply has Chloramide or Chloramine in it. It's like chlorine but won't boil off.

After a while all home brewers become part chemist, part farmer, part cook, part faex medicinalist, bottle washer, imbiber and babbler.

ajf said:

No, I'm a Software Engineer, but I've been brewing off and on for over 30 years.

Oh, I forgot to mention it, but if you use the White Shield, don't forget to drink the decanted portion after you have added the airlock.

-a.

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I'm so glad you didn't reply with "No, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night."

(or whichever hotel has those commericials.)

As others have said, using chlorinated water can result in a medicinal taste. Here in Tallahassee the water is so heavily chlorinated that we do not drink or cook with it. Cooking pasta in the water results in a dish that tastes like its fresh outta the pool.. ack. Anyhow, after using bottled water for sometime I decided to buy a filter after I started all grain brewing (I spent almost as much on water as I did on the grains). I've got an aquasana and it does a very good job of removing any chlorine taste and it meets a bunch of fancy california standards for water filtration and whatnot. I imagine a brita or pur water filter would also do the trick at a much cheaper price. The aquasana was about $100 and the replacement filters (500 to 1,000 gal per filter) are about 45$. When you do the math that makes water 10 cents a gallon. Anyhow, if the water is the cause of the medicinal taste you should probably get some sort of water filter.

As for the carbonation, you should use at least 3/4 of a cup (5 oz if you have a scale) of priming sugar (more if you're using malt extract) per 5 gallons. Make sure you distribute the sugar evenly.. stir the sugar solution into the bottling bucket and restir every so often. Make sure the bottles are sealed well.. if you are using twistoff bottles then they sometimes do not seal.. pop tops are a better bet. Lastly, make sure the bottles are left in a warm location (i.e. above 70) so that they can carbonate in two weeks time. At cooler temps the beer will take longer to carbonate.

On a side note, if anyone ever asks you to play a game called "anchor".. don't, it'll get you loaded faster than beer pong. Miller lite.. ack.. anyhow, I hope this helps. Don't give up just yet, these guys are pretty knowlegeable and will get your brewing straightened out.

Denny's Brew said:

Check to see if your local water supply has Chloramide or Chloramine in it. It's like chlorine but won't boil off.

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Does anyone know if Los Angeles water has these chemicals? I've brewed 2 batches that taste medicinal and it's really frustrating.

rhinostylee said:

Does anyone know if Los Angeles water has these chemicals? I've brewed 2 batches that taste medicinal and it's really frustrating.

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Just found it online . . . LA uses chloramine. Thanks for the heads up! Maybe this next batch will turn out for once.

I have good water on tap, but I won't brew with anything but bottled water. At 65 cents a gallon, it's a drop in the pan for good beer. It's well worth the 4 bucks to not worry.