BIAB without the Bag??

I have been watching several BIAB brewers and it appears that t he biggest concern when using that process is damaginng the bag by melting it to the bottom. I have also been watching the Hop Spider builds using the fine mesh and wonder if I constructed a basket of slightly larger mesh and suspended it in the strike water if I could eliminate the need for a bag and have a reusable basket that I could steep and sparge through for a hybrid approach to BIAB? I could also recirc the wort through the basket to insure I get the most efficiency from the grain too. It's just a thought for now, but I will approach the mesh size issue first, then construct a frame work to secure the mesh to. That way if the mesh becomes damaged or proves to be too large or too small all I would have to do is swap the mesh for a different size. So far I am liking the idea, just gotta do some experiments to test the validity of the premise.

Wheelchair Bob

I think that would basically do the same thing as a kettle with a false bottom.

There are quite a few doing exactly this... There is a vendor (arbor fabricating) who makes very nice SS "baskets" that a few people are using. Here is a link to one https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/mash-bucket-system-399490/

Rbeckett said:

I have been watching several BIAB brewers and it appears that t he biggest concern when using that process is damaginng the bag by melting it to the bottom.
Wheelchair Bob

Click to expand...

Although I'm only 6 batches in to my BIAB career, as far as I can tell I haven't come anywhere near melting the bag to the bottom of the BK. The bag I'm using is probably a bit too big for my kettle so there is definitely excess bag collecting on the bottom, which you would think would increase the chances. I've found that as long as I'm stirring constantly, whilst adding heat with a flame, there's no problem.

The main advantage I can see, for BIAB versus your mesh construction idea, is being able to squeeze the bag to extract every last possible bit of liquid from the grains as one of the methods for gaining higher efficiency, which seems like it might not be an option or at least not as easily done with a mesh basket.

its just a metal bag.

but all that fabricating seems to negate the simplicity of BIAB and be more work than building a mash tun.

Not being trite, but has anyone actually burnt their BIAB inside the pot? Seems like a lot of worry something that I have not heard of. If you can boil water in a paper cup with a blowtorch on it, I cant see how a mesh bag can burn inside a water bath significantly lower than boiling, even.

Amanda and Ogri,
I would like to make a pressure type lid to squeeze the mash when done with the rinses, kind of like a dutch cheese press. Then I can use the spent grain to make bread and dog treats as well as providing inert material for adding to my soil pots for gardening. The fabbing is defeating the simplicity of the Biab method, but I am way more interested in producing tasty and flavorfull brews that demonstrate the true character of the grain bill selection. So I wasn't really looking to simplify the BIAB process, but to improve it and to standardize the results into a repeatable process. Thanks for the links to the mesh supplier also. Since I have a metal fab shop at my home it wont be hard to build or cost much to give it a try.

Wheelchair Bob

woknblues said:

Not being trite, but has anyone actually burnt their BIAB inside the pot? Seems like a lot of worry something that I have not heard of. If you can boil water in a paper cup with a blowtorch on it, I cant see how a mesh bag can burn inside a water bath significantly lower than boiling, even.

Click to expand...

Never.

After 30 something BIAB's in the last 2 years, I've never burned anything while brewing but I use a stove top with my kettle straddled over 2 burners and not a propane burner.
Still, I'd think you'd almost have to work at it to burn it.

brewmcq said:

Never.

Click to expand...

Burnt mine this weekend. Did a 10 gallon batch and forgot to use the false bottom. The extra weight caused it to sag more than usual and touch the bottom. Only burnt a small hole and didn't smell anything when we racked the beers. Hopefully they will taste alright.

woknblues said:

Not being trite, but has anyone actually burnt their BIAB inside the pot? Seems like a lot of worry something that I have not heard of. If you can boil water in a paper cup with a blowtorch on it, I cant see how a mesh bag can burn inside a water bath significantly lower than boiling, even.

Click to expand...

I've always wondered this. Obviously it happens because I hear it from time to time. I've never actually heated with the bag in the pot. For me, heating to slightly above calculated strike temp, adding grains, stirring to cool/equalize temp, and then leaving in the oven to mash works perfectly.

...but if my pot was any bigger I would have to mash outside the oven and it may be more probable.

The key to direct heating and not scorching any mash is to stir while heating. BIAB or not, a mash will scorch if not stirred.

Stirring the grain will avoid scorching the bag if heat needs to be applied. Once one has a bit of experience, there is no need to add heat while the bag is in the pot IMHO.

If you need to add a little heat to a BIAB mash, gentle and reasonable heat and stirring is the key.

cheers!
wilser

Rbeckett said:

Amanda and Ogri,
I would like to make a pressure type lid to squeeze the mash when done with the rinses, kind of like a dutch cheese press. Then I can use the spent grain to make bread and dog treats as well as providing inert material for adding to my soil pots for gardening. The fabbing is defeating the simplicity of the Biab method, but I am way more interested in producing tasty and flavorfull brews that demonstrate the true character of the grain bill selection. So I wasn't really looking to simplify the BIAB process, but to improve it and to standardize the results into a repeatable process. Thanks for the links to the mesh supplier also. Since I have a metal fab shop at my home it wont be hard to build or cost much to give it a try.

Wheelchair Bob

Click to expand...

Hello
A few things -

I am not sure how hard you can press your grains before basket/mesh will rip... but then again... squeezing the heck out of the grains does not benefit you much.
I sparge 3 gallons of water over my grains since I can not get full volume in my keggle on a 12 gallon batch... I squeeze a little, with grains and sparge in a bucket with holes in it.

Having a stainless mesh bag over a voile bag will not make your process any more repeatable... you can get repeatable results with BIAB or eBIAB easily.
Having the same grain crush and same mash time are 2 areas you need to keep consistent for repeatable BIAB brews.
Dont get me wrong though... a stainless "bag" would be pretty nice and if I had the time to make one I would.... but it would be pretty far down my list of priorities of things to setup.

Attempting to recirculate with a pump through a bag or a mesh filter will only cost you more money and headaches. I desperately wanted to do this but in the end sold the pump... my beer is great with out it.
Look at other threads on this topic including mine.

Overall... I applaud your efforts to make a better design, but talking from experience, you might try a simpler approach and end up liking the results.
I have tried to over engineer my setup and make a better system, but ended up failing in a few areas...
Look at some of my threads to see how I struggled with a few things and what I did to solve them.
One of the best ideas I have had is to use a stir motor with my eBIAB setup.

good luck
Kevin

woknblues said:

Not being trite, but has anyone actually burnt their BIAB inside the pot? Seems like a lot of worry something that I have not heard of. If you can boil water in a paper cup with a blowtorch on it, I cant see how a mesh bag can burn inside a water bath significantly lower than boiling, even.

Click to expand...

Nope.

Bayou classic