Wine barrel project

I have a friend who runs a winery and is willing to ferment and barrel a large batch (6 10gal batches) for me.

I have been brewing a barley wine that has turned out really great, right around 10% abv, not to sweet, and a good malty flavor. My thought is to brew 6ish 10 gal batches ( in know I only need like 55gal total) then barrel it for 6mo to a year.

Couple of things I have to figure out. First fermentation. the winery has big 60 gal SS tanks that they hold wine in so I can ferment in there. But I can only brew about 3 times in a day, and thats a long day... So can I brew 3 times, output the beer into the SS tank, brew 30 gal the next day and output to the tank, then aerate and pitch yeast?

Next I assume that the beer won't hold carb in the barrel so I will want to age it, then carb it in kegs post aging correct?

Any recommendations on this?

thanks

How neutral is the barrel and what was in it before? That can really effect how long you should leave your beer in there, because if it isn't neutral you can over oak a beer pretty easily if it is already balanced, and hops and wine can have really funky flavors together, though a full sized barrel like your using helps.

As for the two 3 batch brew days, I suggest aerating and pitching yeast both days if they are going to be back to back, this will insure that the strain you are pitching will be dominate, and that you have plenty of yeast and no stress. Also, when you add your second day of beer to the fermenter make sure that it is within a degree or two of what is already in the fermenter, because you will be adding enough new wort to change the temperature drastically if it is to low or two high. Remember that large batches take longer to cool and heat, and the large amount of yeast may produce more heat than you are used to.

And last, save that 'extra' five gallons to use for topping off after it's in the barrel because you will get evaporation, I would ferment it in a carboy with the same yeast strain, rack to secondary and make sure there is a c02 blanket. If you have a keg you can keep it in even better, don't carbonate just clear the head space with 2-5 psi and check that it isn't leaking every few months.

There are some options to what was in the barrel. Cab Sav, Sangiovese, syrah. Really any red wines. And actually the more I have thought about this beer, its more of a strong ale, and less or a barleywine. Good notes on the fermentation though, thanks.

What matters most is how many times the barrels have been used, as far as oak flavor goes.

Fair enough. I think with this specific barrel it will have been used for 2-3 years for wine aging. I guess I am wondering if the wine will add flavor to the beer, I think it would be less about the oak in this case... Russian River's Suplication is aged in pinot barrels. And while this strong/barleywine is not a lambic nor does it use wild yeast, my thought is that over time the wine would impart into the beer adding potentially good flavor... just thinking out loud here.

I think you're right in the assumption that you'll get more wine than oak, so it might be a good idea to plan for that flavor contribution.

This could be a great opportunity to make a sour beer, but since it sounds like the barrel will be housed at your friends winery, it might not be a good idea to introduce the wild yeasts that might have the potential to spread and infect wine.

Fish Brewing (WA) used to age both a barleywine and an imperial stout in wine barrels, and both were incredible. I don't know why they stopped aging in barrels, but the beer has held up amazingly well. A local bottleshop who purposely cellered some bottles from the early 2000's sells them for $60 for 750ml bottles - the are that good. I recently had a stout that was bottled in 2001, and it was one of the best stouts I ever had. I've heard of similar results from the barleywine.
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Rory,

thanks for the info. Where in Seattle are you? I am brewing this sat or sun on a new all grain rig... http://promonotorybrew.com for a little more detail.

thanks

The younger the barrel the more oak flavors you will get, at a certain point depending on whats been in them and how they have been cleaned between uses they will become neutral and very little if any oak flavor will be imparted. If you wanted to keep getting oak flavors, and reduce the chance of contamination, you could scrape the inside of the barrel and re toast it. This is standard procedure for wineries using second hand barrels.

You will get some wine flavors on your first use if you do not treat the barrel but also run the risk of contamination. As much as five liters of wine can be trapped in the wood of the barrel, in the tartrate layer or in blisters. Since wood is microporous bacteria can hide deep in the wood and won't be effected by normal cleaning, thus the scraping and re toasting of used barrels. Also, if the tartrate layer is not removed you may get sour flavors from it or even vinegar, and it will also inhibit the slow exchange of oxygen in the barrel, which is one of the reasons to use one in the first place. This is especially true with sour beers because some of the organisms in them need at least some oxygen.

In the case of sour beers you are actually hoping for bacteria, and in fact hoping that the strain you like will take hold. Brewers in Belgium often scrape barrels, but not as deeply, to expose a little 'new' oak and to unlock the organisms growing in the wood. Bret, Pedi and Lactis can all remain in the wood, and once they have a significant presence are nearly impossible to remove, so once you go this route there really is no going back with that barrel.

And as a side note, I think this is why barrels that contained spirits are such a good choice for beer makers not wanting to make sour beers. The high alcohol levels of spirits greatly inhibit the growth of bacteria and in the case of whiskey are also relatively new oak so you get a good amount of tannins to help balance the sweeter higher abv beers often made in them.