Pushing the limit

The other day one of my brewing buddies and I where playing with his new hydrometer, when I decided to push some cider to it's limits.

The plain apple juice I started with had a gravity of 1.042, but after adding 3 cups of sugar to a gallon of the juice, the new gravity was at 1.108, with a potential alcohol content of ~15%.

I was going to only make up ~ a gallon of the stuff to try it out, but I had all the stuff out, and the juice sitting right there, and I made up 4 gallons. And pitched a fresh 5 gram pack of Red Star Champagne yeast into the mix.

I have never done anything like this before, and have no idea how is will turn out. I'm curious though what you all think it will be like. Any guesses, theories, or similar stories?

What type of sugar? Mine started at 1.102 but conked out at around 1.070 because of a stuck fermentation. It still tastes delicious, and is still sweet instead of being really bitter.

I used just plain old white cane sugar. I hope it goes all the way, because I don't like sweet cider.

You might experience a stuck ferment. Yeast don't exactly like to be dumped into a 1.100+ solution and ferment it all the way. My only experience with an "above 10%" beverage was the 10-10-10 Belgian Golden Strong. I incrementally fed the fermenter 1lb of sugar + yeast nutrient for 3 days after I reached 1.020. I also re-oxygenated on 2 of the 3 feedings. The beer was brewed in September and is still kind of hot. I did reach 1.000, which is where I intended to get. The real key to accomplishing 10%+ beers is the incremental feeding of extra sugar, a LOT of yeast (I pitched on a cake from a prior batch) and a LOT of oxygen.

I shake oxygen into my juice before I pitch yeast into it, but is there another way to oxygenate my must? Is there some way I could help this batch on its way if I added some energizer, and or nutrients? I'm not sure I want to yet, I kinda just wanna let it run its course, and see what I end up with.

Beano? Amylase Enzyme? would this stuff work with cider/ wine the same as it does with beer?

I wouldn't see much of a point. Enzymes break down the unfermentable dextrins left in wort after the mash. Apple juices are nearly 100% fermentable. Beano might further break down some of the sugars. That still doesn't get around the fact that the sugar load might just be too much for the yeast.

It should ferment out completely, as Red Star is good for 18+% ,you don't need to do anything else, but it will be a relatively slow ferment.

I made a 5 gal batch of cider once with 7 pounds of table sugar and it fermented out all the way.

similar story here. I just made a 3 gallon potion with really no idea what I was doing. I just stirred in close to 3 gallons of apple juice (no preservatives)a yeast nutrient that I cooked up from raisins, 2.5 cups of brown sugar, 2.5 cups of regular table sugar, a few Cinnamon sticks, 1/4 cup of vanilla and 5 atomic fireballs (the hard candy). mixed that all together in a 3 gallon carboy, pitched my yeast and put airlock on. did it fri night and sat morning its bubbling quite nicely. trying to get an apple pie type flaver, hope it turns out ok

I'm just gonna see how it goes before I add anything else, its a worthy experiment.

made a four gallon batch with 4 lbs of dark brown sugar. og was 1.074 and i pitched S-04 rehydrated pretty well. did this last week and hopefully today i can transfer to secondary to help clear it out a bit.

last night I assisted a buddy in the making of a batch of cider that consisted of nothing more then 5 gallons of apple juice, and 10 pounds of sugar. We started by putting 4 cups of sugar per gallon, and it was a surprise that it worked out to almost exactly a 10 pound bag. The gravity was ~1.128, with a potential alcohol of just over 18%. I'm exited to see how it turns out. :cross:

david_42 said:

It should ferment out completely, as Red Star is good for 18+% ,you don't need to do anything else, but it will be a relatively slow ferment.

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Yes, you made a wine, not a cider, but in about a year or two, it'll taste really good. Before a year, it'll taste like jet fuel, though.

ruffcutt said:

last night I assisted a buddy in the making of a batch of cider that consisted of nothing more then 5 gallons of apple juice, and 10 pounds of sugar. We started by putting 4 cups of sugar per gallon, and it was a surprise that it worked out to almost exactly a 10 pound bag. The gravity was ~1.128, with a potential alcohol of just over 18%. I'm exited to see how it turns out. :cross:

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That's pretty high for an OG- but you may get it to go to 15-17% or so if the yeast is happy. Most of my wines are 1.100 or so.

YooperBrew said:

That's pretty high for an OG- but you may get it to go to 15-17% or so if the yeast is happy. Most of my wines are 1.100 or so.

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He pitched most of a pack Red Star Champagne yeast into he mix, is that what you where basing you guess on, or does that change things?

I made a five gallon batch that consisted of cider and five pounds of assorted fermentables...brown sugar, sugar in the raw, honey and table sugar. I pitched one of those wyeast liquid champagne strains and it fermented down to 1.00 in about a month and half. This was in April and has been resting in secondary ever since. Flavor was pretty harsh at first but has since mellowed considerably. The juice was 1.06 prior to addition of five pounds of fermentables. Not sure what all that sugar did to the gravity though. I plan on adding a gallon of fresh cider back into it before I keg it in September. Hoping it goes through malolactic ferment on its own but the basement stays around sixty four degrees so might not be warm enough. Your cider should ferment dry if you leave it be. Will take a long time though. Best of luck though!
Mfs

ruffcutt said:

He pitched most of a pack Red Star Champagne yeast into he mix, is that what you where basing you guess on, or does that change things?

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Yes, that's why I guessed that. That yeast strain CAN go to 17-18%, but it sometimes takes some pampering to get it there. It could finish at .990 (18%) but it might poop out a bit before that.

I routinely make wines that start at 1.100 and finish at .990, without any problems so I know the yeast can go to a higher ABV. It will taste like rocket fuel for a year or two, but it should ferment out pretty well.

Yep! Rocket fuel It went ll the way to 17%, and reeks of ethanol. There is still kind of a sweet taste to it though, perhaps I put too much sugar in it. I'll give it a year