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forzados

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Argentina
LONG TIME READER, FIRST TIME CALLER....(as i´ve read it)

Disclaimer:
1) I´m from Argentina (we speak spanish here) so, please please, excuse me for my english
2) i won´t be able to sound as kind as i am, cause i have idiomatic issues (i don´t mean to sound rude or something like that. excuses in advance)

Friends:

I ve been brewing since january, and the first 6 batches went to the sink :( . They all had an awful taste, like.....like....( A guy said "like Satan Anus" but i guess that´s not so helpful ;) ) something sharp, not from hops, but like medicinal, phenols....simply undrinkable to me (my grandfather drunk it all :D )

We have here (in ARG) , people who make craft beer to sell, people who know a lot, and they´ve say my process are in the right path :D, all clean, sanitized, and fermented w/ temp controller

P062301_15-02-10-copia-copia.jpg


(in front kolsch, back: Oatmeal Stout)

But, in my town....the water....THE WATER!!!!!

ANALISISAGUAS-1.jpg


(The values are incredible, i know)

my question is: Could this water make nearly UNDRINKABLE BEER?

I mean, is beer, is carbonated, the wort is fine to taste, and at the very end of primary fermentation is fine, but then, as i rack to the bucket i use to bottle, the beer start to smell like "satan anus" (in 15 minutes!!!!) and keep smelling and tasting like that in the bottle.


BTW The beer is well aged
----------------------

I´ve made a Scotch /80 batch (i´ll bottle it this saturday) w/ other city´s water (softer, 34 ppm Na+). pH 5.02 in the beginning of the mash, wort taste fine, really fine..... Thats my last hope.....

Thanks in advance!!!!!

Nico
 
Your water does look a bit unusual but telling us more about your methods & techniques will help in tracking down the problem. Can you post your recipe(s), temperatures used in mashing and fermenting, type of yeast, etc? Getting a specific description of the bad flavor you are encountering will be helpful too. Medicinal, phenolic flavors can almost always be traced to either a wild yeast infection or fermenting the beer at a temperature that's too high.
 
Welcome Nico!

I had no problem following your post. I am not a water expert but one should come along soon to help you with your analysis. Water can definitely make your beer taste bad. Without filtering mine, it makes a very astringent beer.
 
LONG TIME READER, FIRST TIME CALLER....(as i´ve read it)

Disclaimer:
1) I´m from Argentina (we speak spanish here) so, please please, excuse me for my english

Your english is better than some around here :D

Really sounds like you are fermenting too hot. Are you measuring the temp of the fermenting beer or just the general temp in the fridge?

That water profile is a bit wonky, but I think that water issues would give you a different set of off flavors, astringent, metallic, salty etc.

Do you filter for Chorine, or Chloramine (sp)? That would give you some funny bandaid, rubbery flavors.
 
BigEd Nurmey, thaks for the answers...

I boil in a 50lts steel coated pot, i use sanitary hoses, CC wort chiller, all recipes were different, malts, cascades, kent goldings, fuggles and yeast from different suppliers.

We´ve revised all steps...boiling, sanitization, chilling, fermentation....etc

We use, plastic fermentors....but they are new, from different suppliers...
The first 2 batches ferment at high temp (32°C, and had fusel taste...that´s ok) but the 4 next ferment at 18°...good kraeusen, bubbling, and so on....

In the first 2 batches we use iodophor (1.25ml/lt no rinse solution to sanitize), then, we leave iodine into oblivion.....so switch to 70% alcohol...

The strangest thing is that the beer smell and taste fine in the fermentor and as soon as we take off the cap....the horrible smell appears

THANKS!!!
 
Really sounds like you are fermenting too hot. Are you measuring the temp of the fermenting beer or just the general temp in the fridge?

P0623_15-02-10-copia-copia.jpg


Do you filter for Chorine, or Chloramine (sp)? That would give you some funny bandaid, rubbery flavors.

We thought that´s the problem, so in the last 3 batches we used Sodium Metabisulphite to de chlorate/dechlorinate the water (i know...i added Na+ to my salty water :D )

Im lost for ideas....

;)
 
if nothing else, Satan's Anus is a great beer name (for what it's worth)

perhaps try bottled water for a batch
do one w/ bottled water, one w/ your water
one in plastic fermenter, one in glass
one temp controlled, one not
etc.

I would keep doing experiments like that to rule out certain variables...
buena suerte, amigo!
 
Nico,

Well aged > 1 month? My friend and I both had a batch of beer that had a strong, medicinal, lady's perfume, after taste. The only thing our batches had in common was the East Kent Goldings hops we used. We both bought it from the same place. I am not saying this is the cause - may be just coincidence.

In any case, after 2 months it was quite drinkable.
 
70% Alcohol? I hope you don't mean Isopropyl! I'm not sure how good of a sanitizer that is, but that hardly matters as it's poisonous! Who knows what it will do to the flavor of the beer?
Why did you quit using Iodophor?
 
I'm a newbie. However, I think you got a chemical reaction that is happening when you pop the top to bottle. So Air is hitting the beer or C02 Layer and bam something is going on. I'd say it's something in the process perhaps the sanitizer or something not sure as I'm new but if it happens every time you pop top to start bottling it seems to point to a chemical reaction with air at that point in time.
 
70% Alcohol? I hope you don't mean Isopropyl! I'm not sure how good of a sanitizer that is, but that hardly matters as it's poisonous! Who knows what it will do to the flavor of the beer?
Why did you quit using Iodophor?

I'm sure he means ethyl alcohol. 70% ethanol is a commonly used ratio of ethanol/water for use as a sanitizer.

So we have phenols going on... you think.
Chloramine/chlorine - you said you used sulfates to get rid of them, but try bottled water next time to be sure.
Yeast used - what yeast are you using? hefe and belgian yeast produce phenols on their own.
Wild yeast/bacteria - you have some sort of an infection going on. Probably Brett as it's a son of a ***** to get rid of, and if it was lacto, you'd likely have a very sour beer to.

Those are the things that produce phenols off the top of my head.
You might want to read through this and see if you can't narrow something down: http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html
 
For starters, the sodium content in your water is way too high for brewing. It almost seems like your water authority softens the water themselves.

70% isopropyl alcohol is fine to use as a sanitizer/disinfectant in brewing as long as the equipment on which it is used is allowed to dry or is rinsed with pre-boiled water. But isopropyl alcohol is not practical for the larger pieces of equipment. Iodophor is fine to use in the right concentration. If you think you mixed in too much iodophor, you can rinse the sanitized equipment with pre-boiled water just to be safe.
 
NEWS:

For starters, the sodium content in your water is way too high for brewing. It almost seems like your water authority softens the water themselves.

+1.000 on that!!!!
We´ve made 2 batches with water fron other source(Na++ 34, HCO3 17, very soft and clean water) A scotish /80, and a pale Ale. And the taste is NICE!!!!!!!! CONCLUSION:

60lts to the sink, and almost quit brewing, just because you CANT BREW ANYTHING WITH MY CITY´S WATER!!!!!

Thank u all for the advices!!!!
 
Just to be on the safe side I always use those 5 gal office water cooler jugs for my brew. It's filtered spring water and it's 5 gallons measured out, although I often loose about 1/2 gallon via steam during the brew.
 
Was also going to say that the sodium is very, very high. Combined with your high (222) sulfates, it is not surprising that it tasted awful.

Not sure where the bad smell came from, perhaps that problem was psychological.
 
rather than buying spring water all the time, I'd invest in some sort of a filtration system. Both for brewing and drinking.
 
cloro libre - free chlorine is very bad for brewing. You can remove it by adding Campden tablets (potassium or sodium metabisulphite) to the water before starting.
 
I mean, is beer, is carbonated, the wort is fine to taste, and at the very end of primary fermentation is fine, but then, as i rack to the bucket i use to bottle, the beer start to smell like "satan anus" (in 15 minutes!!!!) and keep smelling and tasting like that in the bottle.

Nico

If it smells fine before you put it in the bucket, and then its terrible, get rid of the bucket, and whatever you're using to rack it to the bucket.
 
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