Prohibition

Now the we have the legal right to brew our own beer and make our own wine I feel like we have an obligation as a community to help repeal the prohibition against distillation of alcohol.

For 2 reason:

1st and formost is if the Govt. is truly concerned about our dependance on foreign oil we should be allowed to make our own fuel or fuel additive to help reduce that dependance. This activity should not be limited to politically well connected companies like ADM and Con Agra. We pay taxes, they collect subsidies and contribute to political campaigns to recieve favorable legislation.

The 2nd reason is not everyone can handle beer or wine because of allergies or other sensativities if they wish to partake of alcohol the must purchase it from the liquor industry. I believe they should have the right to make it themselves is they so desire. And a Govt prohibition of that is an infringement on that right.

I hope this doesn't get locked as being too political. Because I believe the internet and forums such as this is the worlds last best hope for freedom. And if we are not going to be allowed to discuss it here does anyone know where such a discussion could take place?

I'm I alone in this thought or are there other out there who think that prohibition except to politically well connected companies is wrong and the law needs to be changed?

/signed

I think it should be allowed but I would NEVER do it whilst it was illegal.

Things that make you go BOOM.

Legalize homegrowing before homestilling.

"Ingest the Best,
Into the Vehicles go the Rest."

-Grampy

Copper

Cheesefood said:

Legalize homegrowing before homestilling.

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/signed

orfy said:

I think it should be allowed but I would NEVER do it whilst it was illegal.

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I did not know it was illegal in the UK as well.

And No I would never encourage anyone to break the law no matter how unfair or wrongheaded that law may be.

But in this country the political class will only move if the think they'll lose their cussy job over some issue.

Cheesefood said:

Things that make you go BOOM.

Legalize homegrowing before homestilling.

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Seconded.

<i hate character limits>

Cheesefood said:

Things that make you go BOOM.

Legalize homegrowing before homestilling.

Click to expand...

I understand where you are coming from.

But unfortunately there are way too many people in the USA that think they are somehow morally superior because their drug of choice is alcohol which happens to be legal.

1 stupid, unconstitutional law at a time.

I would love to submit a petition of something like...

"I, the undersigned, while in complete respect of the Bill of Rights and the spirit and interpretations embedded into the Ammendments, do hereby petition the U.S. Government to be allowed to trade in my right to bear arms for the right to legally grow, possess, and ingest any substance that can be grown, harvested and used (without significant alteration) in the privacy of my own home and/or designated useage areas. Much like the current laws regarding guns, I promise not to carry or use the substance in public places without a permit and wherenot allowed by laws, not to sell or trade on any underground "black" markets, and not to permit or allow minors access to said plant materials."

Well, hell....
We ALL know Mary Jane leads to LSD.
We suffer much for the lame info put out in the 60-70's.

Iffen it grows/fermented in the privacy of your own dang home. Let it be. And gov't should pisssssssst off.

Copper

Just asking the question...

Distilling is illegal now, but what barriers will be lifted for you- or what opportunities will arise for you that you do no already have?

I suspect that you know how to do this (at least in principle), books and instruction are readily and legally available and there is not one lick of equipment that you cannot obtain legally. I know of no crack-down on the "hobby".

If you're spoiling for a fight with government, how about helping our Brothers in Brew in places such as Utah, West Virginia, ect where state law prohibits brewing beer or severly restricts it.

Need I bring up dry counties, monopolistic liquor distribution and places where you have to spend $100,000 to buy an existing business just for the expressed intent of taking over their liqour licence because the local government restricts availability?

olllllo said:

Just asking the question...

Distilling is illegal now, but what barriers will be lifted for you- or what opportunities will arise for you that you do no already have?

I suspect that you know how to do this (at least in principle), books and instruction are readily and legally available and there is not one lick of equipment that you cannot obtain legally. I know of no crack-down on the "hobby".

If you're spoiling for a fight with government, how about helping our Brothers in Brew in places such as Utah, West Virginia, ect where state law prohibits brewing beer or severly restricts it.

Need I bring up dry counties, monopolistic liquor distribution and places where you have to spend $100,000 to buy an existing business just for the expressed intent of taking over their liqour licence because the local government restricts availability?

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this is the case where I live. The state no longer issues the liscense they are already in circulation, you have to pray for another business to go under so you can buy theirs. I also grew up in a dry town.

Todd said:

this is the case where I live. The state no longer issues the liscense they are already in circulation, you have to pray for another business to go under so you can buy theirs. I also grew up in a dry town.

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At least homebrewing is legal here. 200 gallons a year! Woo!

While I WHOLEHEARTEDLY endorse your view that the government should just butt out and rescind restriction on personal recreation prarmatically it won't happen. According to thischart the federal government collected $5 billion in alcohol taxes in 2004. That's never going away. In fact I suspect that as tobacco use continues to decline the "vice taxes" will be shifted to alcohol. Additionaly I would be concerned about the safety distillation. The flash point of alcohol is dangerously close to the vaporization temperature. I certainly wouln't admonish anyone to "relax and have some home whiskey" while distilling. I've heard that jacking (distillation by freezing) is WAY safer although quite a bit less efficient (lower proof).
If you're objecting on a philisophical basis that may be the end of the discussion. If you're looking to expand your hobby I've been quite successfull at making liquers at home. Here in the CA valley we've got wonderful fruit and I've got some incredible peach wiskey sitting at home in the cupboard.

I agree with the no Still law. Volatility wise, it's not much different than a meth lab. The last thing we need is people blowing up buildings trying to cook up bathtub gin.

(Yes, I know we're all in this together and we love to take a bath.)

onecolumbyte said:

While I WHOLEHEARTEDLY endorse your view that the government should just butt out and rescind restriction on personal recreation prarmatically it won't happen. According to thischart the federal government collected $5 billion in alcohol taxes in 2004. That's never going away. In fact I suspect that as tobacco use continues to decline the "vice taxes" will be shifted to alcohol.

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I'm more then ready for another "Tea Party"

As for the "No Still crowd", stupid people will do stupid things and die in stupid ways, no matter what you do . . . so why stick it in my arse?

The "Nanny State" must end . . . and if I didnt know better and didnt want to turn thread non political into something frowned upon I would say something like . . .

Grab yo guns Boys, It's time for a road trip!

olllllo said:

Just asking the question...

If you're spoiling for a fight with government, how about helping our Brothers in Brew in places such as Utah, West Virginia, ect where state law prohibits brewing beer or severly restricts it.

Need I bring up dry counties, monopolistic liquor distribution and places where you have to spend $100,000 to buy an existing business just for the expressed intent of taking over their liqour licence because the local government restricts availability?

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I for one am not spoiling for a fight with the Government.

But I believe that I have a right as a citizen to petition my government for the repeal of a law I believe is unfair, wronghead and possibly uncontitutional. If enough people do the same the law will be changed. If not it won't be and I am willing to live with that.

It seems to me the situation has changed and if the Admin. branch of the Govt or member of congress is sincere about energy independance repeal of this law makes good sense .

I don't believe I have a right to address any state law or county ordinance in which I do not live. I also believe that the good people in said state or county should vote either in the polling place or with their feet and leave if they find their situation intolerable.

Is this thread locked yet?

As for the liquor distribution question I think the repeal of distillation prohibition would solve that problem in short order.

olllllo said:

If you're spoiling for a fight with government, how about helping our Brothers in Brew in places such as Utah, West Virginia, ect where state law prohibits brewing beer or severly restricts it.

Need I bring up dry counties, monopolistic liquor distribution and places where you have to spend $100,000 to buy an existing business just for the expressed intent of taking over their liqour licence because the local government restricts availability?

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I would put that burden on those who live in those areas. My current beef isnt with my state or local governments (in this case at least) but it is with an over reaching federal government that loves to wipe it's ass with the 9th and 10th amendments

I'll stop now

onecolumbyte said:

$5 billion in alcohol taxes in 2004. That's never going away. In fact I suspect that as tobacco use continues to decline the "vice taxes" will be shifted to alcohol. Additionaly I would be concerned about the safety distillation. The flash point of alcohol is dangerously close to the vaporization temperature. .

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Man
You certainly make a good point. I never really considered it from that angle.

the thought just came to me about it being illegal while I was posting about the benefits of distilling water vs using RO. And wondered if anyone else thought it was absurd that politically well connected ADM can do it but I can't.

I'm quite sure that any and almost every politician will glum on to any inherent danger to protect me from myself and keep ADM and ConAgra safely away from any competion.

One thing is for sure the law will never change if people don't act to make it change.

Judging from this thread I'd have to say there is not enough interest in changing the law for it to happen.

abracadabra said:

I understand where you are coming from.

But unfortunately there are way too many people in the USA that think they are somehow morally superior because their drug of choice is alcohol which happens to be legal.

1 stupid, unconstitutional law at a time.

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Actually the drug of choice in many cases are those deemed OK by the pharma-gods. Many of which are far more harmful and addictive than some of the aforementioned.

Remember. It is all about Power. Nothing more, nothing less.

Pumbaa said:

I'm more then ready for another "Tea Party"

As for the "No Still crowd", stupid people will do stupid things and die in stupid ways, no matter what you do . . . so why stick it in my arse?

The "Nanny State" must end . . . and if I didnt know better and didnt want to turn thread non political into something frowned upon I would say something like . . .

Grab yo guns Boys, It's time for a road trip!

Click to expand...

Something tells me you're exactly one SWMBO away from either trying to violently overthrow the government or moving to Montana to sit in a candle-lit shack and write letters to the newspaper as to why we should overthrow the government.

I've wondered how growing marijuana and distillign alcohol can be prosecuted.

A crime is an act that causes harm to the public.

If you grow or distill something then use it in your own home without letting others and without selling it. What crime is being committed?

I understand the "crime" is that the Government passed a law that makes it so but in the true form of the def. there is no clear cut crime being committed. It's all speculation that you might sell it or distrbute it. That's all assumptions though, how can we be prosecuted on assumptions of possible intent? Just because the Government says so?

TxBrew said:

I understand the "crime" is that the Government passed a law that makes it so but in the true form of the def. there is no clear cut crime being committed. It's all speculation that you might sell it or distrbute it. That's all assumptions though, how can we be prosecuted on assumptions of possible intent? Just because the Government says so?

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Well that is kind of one of the scary thing (at least in my mind) these days. What really dictates who is right and who is wrong. I personally am for laws that protect individuals from doing harm to one another, but am against laws that turn individuals into choiceless, powerless people. If you are doing no harm to anyone else then I don't understand why society feels the need to create laws that protect us from ourselves. It is out of hand these days imo. If an individual has a problem and needs help this is a different matter and help should be available. But if the individual chooses one thing or another and it does no harm to others I say let them be.

Cheesefood said:

Something tells me you're exactly one SWMBO away from either trying to violently overthrow the government or moving to Montana to sit in a candle-lit shack and write letters to the newspaper as to why we should overthrow the government.

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I dont like to write letters, dont read newspapers, and love electricity

TxBrew said:

I've wondered how growing marijuana and distillign alcohol can be prosecuted.

A crime is an act that causes harm to the public.

If you grow or distill something then use it in your own home without letting others and without selling it. What crime is being committed?

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The "crime" is that the gov't isn't getting their cut. It's near impossible to tax something you can make for your own usage in your own home - they can't get money from it so they make it illegal. Now if you get caught with it you're REALLY rendering unto Caesar what Caesar thinks he's owed.

They tried it with alcohol across the board once, and we see how well that worked out.

Buford said:

The "crime" is that the gov't isn't getting their cut. It's near impossible to tax something you can make for your own usage in your own home - they can't get money from it so they make it illegal. Now if you get caught with it you're REALLY rendering unto Caesar what Caesar thinks he's owed.

They tried it with alcohol across the board once, and we see how well that worked out.

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Just as well as it has with drugs. Who here couldn't score some illegal drug in a few days? (If you can, let me know.)

Cheesefood said:

Just as well as it has with drugs. Who here couldn't score some illegal drug in a few days? (If you can, let me know.)

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me . . . since my brother died I wouldnt know anyone to contact for them.

TxBrew said:

I've wondered how growing marijuana and distillign alcohol can be prosecuted.

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I got a better one for ya, prostitution. How can it be illegal to sell something you give away for free?

Cheesefood said:

I would love to submit a petition of something like...

"I, the undersigned, while in complete respect of the Bill of Rights and the spirit and interpretations embedded into the Ammendments, do hereby petition the U.S. Government to be allowed to trade in my right to bear arms for the right to legally grow, possess, and ingest any substance that can be grown, harvested and used (without significant alteration) in the privacy of my own home and/or designated useage areas. Much like the current laws regarding guns, I promise not to carry or use the substance in public places without a permit and wherenot allowed by laws, not to sell or trade on any underground "black" markets, and not to permit or allow minors access to said plant materials."

Click to expand...

Whoa, back up the truck. I've no problem with whatever you want to grow and smoke, hell I used to do that too back in the day, and I really do wish it would be legalized, but leave my guns out of it. You can't have them.

I've heard your opinions about state and local laws, but really that was only a secondary point.

What is it that you can't do in the privacy of your home? What's stopping you?

I just am not swayed enough to be "obligated" to do anything.

Bernie Brewer said:

Whoa, back up the truck. I've no problem with whatever you want to grow and smoke, hell I used to do that too back in the day, and I really do wish it would be legalized, but leave my guns out of it. You can't have them.

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That's fine. No one's forcing you to. I'm just saying that we (individuals) should be able to exchange that right.

I don't need to kill anything, so I don't want a gun.

olllllo said:

I've heard your opinions about state and local laws, but really that was only a secondary point.

What is it that you can't do in the privacy of your home? What's stopping you?

I just am not swayed enough to be "obligated" to do anything.

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I understand. I'm happy just be able to brew beer myself.

Just wondering if there was any interest out there in helping others who like alcohol but can't handle beer or wine.

And if it might be possible for us to help with our dependance on getting energy
from the Mullahs in Iran and other equal dispicable characters.

The thread really went in a different direction than I anticipated.

Very interesting though.

Thanks everyone for the comments. It was entertaining to say the least.

Cheers

The sway has been in effect more than any of us would like.

Cheesefood said:

That's fine. No one's forcing you to. I'm just saying that we (individuals) should be able to exchange that right.

I don't need to kill anything, so I don't want a gun.

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The problem with that line of thinking is that you're *asking* the gov't for permission to do something, akin to a child saying if I don't have desert, can I stay up late. The government derives its power from the people, not the other way around. The duties of the government may have wildly strayed unchecked from their original intent, but the 10th amendment has yet to be repealed. While our country's homebrewing culture is seemingly almost recovered from the "Great Experiment", I see no need to give up one right to gain another.

Cheesefood said:

(Yes, I know we're all in this together and we love to take a bath.)

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Reba??????
P.S. I live in a state that made playing poker online for money a class three felony punishable by 5 years in prison.
Guess where I stand on this topic.

What a mad country you live in! I would be too confused trying to remember what I could and could not do.

How about a licence to run a still. You would have to have training in the operation (like forklift truck drivers etx) before you were allowed to buy / operate one.


The gov need the tax. that is why homegrowing is illegal. I don't think that it is illegal to grow tobaco, just takes too much time and space.

and yes, the gov was put in place by general population and then they turn around and take you up the ar$e. *rant over*

aseelye said:

The problem with that line of thinking is that you're *asking* the gov't for permission to do something, akin to a child saying if I don't have desert, can I stay up late. The government derives its power from the people, not the other way around.

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Well said, aseelye, well said. I'm a bit of a libertarian too (tempered with common sense and experience) and I'm tired of MY government constantly making laws to 'protect' me from myself. Every time someone does something stupid and Darwin's themselves, a little more of my freedom is gone. I have to pay, HAVE to pay, a minimum of $2.25 for a drink in any bar in the province. It's illegal to sell it any cheaper than that. Why? Because some university kid got plastered and wandered into the river and drowned. We have removed the ability of bars and lounges to compete with one another because some kid drank too much.

I recently had enough and joined a Canadian political party so I would have more say in policy. They say that you speak with your vote. I want to shout.

Fingers said:

I'm tired of MY government constantly making laws to 'protect' me from myself.

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Hmmm, you have that problem in Canada, too?? Looks like the bureaucratic mentality is pretty much unilateral, huh??

And Cheese while I applaud your creativity in the idea of trading one right for another, I kind of think that our rights are just like our Declaration of Independance states: they are unalienable. They are yours, ours. They are not something for trading. Even if you feel you may not need one, you still hang onto it for dear life, because if you let one be taken away the rest are fair game and will soon be lost as well.

dibby33 said:

What a mad country you live in! I would be too confused trying to remember what I could and could not do.

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yeah it sucks what it has become Dibby . . . So much for "Land of the Free"

dibby33 said:

What a mad country you live in! I would be too confused trying to remember what I could and could not do.

How about a licence to run a still. You would have to have training in the operation (like forklift truck drivers etx) before you were allowed to buy / operate one.


The gov need the tax. that is why homegrowing is illegal. I don't think that it is illegal to grow tobaco, just takes too much time and space.

and yes, the gov was put in place by general population and then they turn around and take you up the ar$e. *rant over*

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Does your country allow immigrants from the US?