Easy Stovetop All-Grain Brewing (with pics)

DeathBrewer said:

You'll need to take the temperature of the grain.

Click to expand...

Just don't use an **** thermometer...




(sorry couldn't help myself)

Edit: Fixed

Yes, you may have to hold it down

Looking for some help with doing a big beer using this method. I wanted to throw together something like the Stone Anniversary Ale clones discussed here.

For my equipment setup, I have one 5 gallon pot, one 9 gallon pot (w/ spigot), and one 10 gallon pot that I use as my main boiling kettle.

The way I see it I have 2 options. One would be to mash twice in the 5 gallon pot, using half the grain bill each time and then combine into the kettle. Alternatively I think I could use two grain bags and throw all the malt in the 9 gallon pot. I'm not sure how well I'd be able to avoid dough balls in the lower bag if I did that though. Or maybe there are other options? Any opinions/advice?

Separate from this, how do you guys do your water calculations in more complicated scenarios like this? Would http://www.brew365.com/mash_sparge_water_calculator.php give accurate water totals for the BIAB method if I treat the "sparge water" amount as the amount of water I'd need in my boiling kettle for dunking the grains in after the mash?

neomantra said:

Looking for some help with doing a big beer using this method. I wanted to throw together something like the Stone Anniversary Ale clones discussed here.

For my equipment setup, I have one 5 gallon pot, one 9 gallon pot (w/ spigot), and one 10 gallon pot that I use as my main boiling kettle.

The way I see it I have 2 options. One would be to mash twice in the 5 gallon pot, using half the grain bill each time and then combine into the kettle. Alternatively I think I could use two grain bags and throw all the malt in the 9 gallon pot. I'm not sure how well I'd be able to avoid dough balls in the lower bag if I did that though. Or maybe there are other options? Any opinions/advice?

Separate from this, how do you guys do your water calculations in more complicated scenarios like this? Would http://www.brew365.com/mash_sparge_water_calculator.php give accurate water totals for the BIAB method if I treat the "sparge water" amount as the amount of water I'd need in my boiling kettle for dunking the grains in after the mash?

Click to expand...

If you can find a bigger bag for that 9 gallon pot, that would be the way to go. Since it has a spigot, can you add a bazooka screen to it? Then you wouldn't need a bag at all and you could bulk sparge there too.

For the water amount? Mash 1.25-2 qt/# of grain, and for sparge it's something like .5 gallon / # of grain? I don't remember the sparge amount off the top of my head.

Sparge amount is generally whatever remaining water you need to make a full boil. In this case, it's however much water you can use with whatever pots you have.

I would not recommend cramming grain into smaller bags. You won't get a lot of flow-through and you'll get really poor efficiency.

That Stone Anniversary Ale is a very large beer and cannot really be made with this method. I would recommend a partial mash recipe, replacing some of the 2-row with light DME so that you don't have to mash that many pounds. It'll be just as good.

Always remember that, with this method OR with no-sparge brewing, you will get very poor efficiency if you try to use too much grain. It's not worth it. If you are making a larger beer, mash in the 5 gallon pot with however much grain you can. I would recommend a going no more than 4.1 gallons total and I would recommend a water/grain ratio of 1.50qt/lb, so you really don't want to use more than 9 lbs of grain or it gets sketchy.

With a lower ratio at 1.25qt/lb, you can fit up to 10.5 lbs of grain, but I would go with the more comfortable version, especially when it is so easy to just replace the 2-row with extract. The beer will be just as good...you are still using a large portion of grain and there is nothing wrong with extract.

Also, using the calculator you posted will work but your absorption rate is MUCH lower with this method than with regular mashing, so expect about half the absorption you usually get.

DeathBrewer said:

especially when it is so easy to just replace the 2-row with extract. The beer will be just as good...you are still using a large portion of grain and there is nothing wrong with extract.

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Agreed, the downfall to brewing all extract is that you cannot get a lot of different malt characteristics because the majority are made from 2-row, and you cannot control the mash conditions. In addition to this, liquid extracts darken and the freshness is questioned. I wouldn't worry about this with DME though. In your position though, just substitute out some of the 2-row, you'll still have the same profile for the beer.

This method can even save you a few bucks on hops (which can go towards drugs [mentioned in the linked post about the stone clone]). If you choose to add the malt extract in the last 10 minutes, you'll get better isomerization of the bittering hops.

Good call, thanks for the tips.

Thanks DB -
I posted my stove top all grain american wheat here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/stovetop-all-grain-american-wheat-ale-189774/

This turned out delicious. Never would have considered it if I hadn't seen your post.

Howard

Ok, I gave this a second try after a pretty bad first experience. This time went much better, and I got somewhere around 65-70% efficiency. Thanks for putting this thread together!

Death, I'm looking into doing this stovetop AG method but on a smaller 2.5 gallon scale:

Have one question: After mashing in, what do you think will be the difference between
1) transferring the grain bag to a different kettle with 185F sparge water to get the grain to the desired 170F (as you describe), or
2) just adding a few quarts of boiling water directly onto the mash to get it to 170F (step infusion?)

Do you think there will be a difference in efficiency of the extraction?

Naked_Eskimo said:

Death, I'm looking into doing this stovetop AG method but on a smaller 2.5 gallon scale:

Have one question: After mashing in, what do you think will be the difference between
1) transferring the grain bag to a different kettle with 185F sparge water to get the grain to the desired 170F (as you describe), or
2) just adding a few quarts of boiling water directly onto the mash to get it to 170F (step infusion?)

Do you think there will be a difference in efficiency of the extraction?

Click to expand...

There is, as the transferring to the new kettle will help rinse the grains of any sugar that didn't make it into the main wort, where as just adding the boiling water will just raise the temperature of the mash.

Naked_Eskimo said:

Death, I'm looking into doing this stovetop AG method but on a smaller 2.5 gallon scale:

Have one question: After mashing in, what do you think will be the difference between
1) transferring the grain bag to a different kettle with 185F sparge water to get the grain to the desired 170F (as you describe), or
2) just adding a few quarts of boiling water directly onto the mash to get it to 170F (step infusion?)

Do you think there will be a difference in efficiency of the extraction?

Click to expand...

I may not be the infamous DB, but I have done this on a smaller scale. First off, I want to say, adding less grains to the sparge water will make the temp fall less. Using half the grains might leave you a little high for 185F, it's one of those things you need to try to see. I suggest maybe 180, and keep some extra boiling water if possible to raise to around 170F if needed.

OK, now for your question, there are 2 reasons we sparge. First, to rinse the grains, second, to raise the temp. Either method 1 or 2 will raise the temp for you, halting the saccrification (spelling?) rest. However, IMO the two methods don't actually rinse the grain the same. Diluting the water and adding more volume to the kettle will rinse the grains more than not sparging, but I feel like you want to sparge it with some pure water, so that it can get into the grain and rinse it out. When you sparge with the classic mashing method, you use the clean water to push the sugars out of the mash kettle, but with our method there is no removing of the sugar, just it pooling with the grains, so when I remove the grain, I want to remove it from the lowest gravity liquid. This would be a seperate sparge vessle for me.

I would love for someone to do an experiment to know for sure, but for my setup, I cannot add any water to my 5.5 gallon kettle. I get great efficiency when sparging to another kettle.

If you don't have an extra pot, step 2 would get the job done.

Naked_Eskimo said:

Death, I'm looking into doing this stovetop AG method but on a smaller 2.5 gallon scale:

Have one question: After mashing in, what do you think will be the difference between
1) transferring the grain bag to a different kettle with 185F sparge water to get the grain to the desired 170F (as you describe), or
2) just adding a few quarts of boiling water directly onto the mash to get it to 170F (step infusion?)

Do you think there will be a difference in efficiency of the extraction?

Click to expand...

I've done a couple 2 1/2 gallon batches with this method. I just used the same proceedure, just less water overall. So cut the recipe in half, then cut the mash and sparge water in half. (I still use a calc to make sure I have the right amounts )

Just wanted to shout out a quick thank you! for this post. Just finished my first AG batch on the stove using a version of this method. I ended up using 5 gallon buckets for the mash steps, and was surprised to see how well they maintained the temps I needed. I also did a full boil using 3 small stock pots on the stove.

I would never (well, not never, but a long way off) have tried AG if not for this post...now I just have to deal with being patient enough to see how it turned out!

I've been doing this method for a while now, and I have a couple of comments on the bags.

I've tried using the 5g paint strainers, and I've found them to be a little too small for my 5g pot and 10lb of grain. They squished the grain way too much and the effieciency is way low. I went ahead and bought the recommended grain bag and it has worked great for about five or six brewdays until the last one, when I started to get a rip at the seam. I'm gonna buy another bag, but was wondering if anyone had a suggestion as to a stronger bag that I could get.

fugazzi said:

I'm gonna buy another bag, but was wondering if anyone had a suggestion as to a stronger bag that I could get.

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Being me I'd probably just use two of the paint strainer bags

fugazzi said:

I've been doing this method for a while now, and I have a couple of comments on the bags.

I've tried using the 5g paint strainers, and I've found them to be a little too small for my 5g pot and 10lb of grain. They squished the grain way too much and the effieciency is way low. I went ahead and bought the recommended grain bag and it has worked great for about five or six brewdays until the last one, when I started to get a rip at the seam. I'm gonna buy another bag, but was wondering if anyone had a suggestion as to a stronger bag that I could get.

Click to expand...

Can you elaborate on this a little more? I recently switched to the paint strainer bags I got from Lowe's and they worked great. I put my actual grain bag away damp and it grew mold. That's that. Anyway, I switched, and the paint strainer bag worked just as well, it even has an elastic to keep it from going in the pot!

Have you done another brew with the paint strainer? Was it just bad luck? I figured I would get another actual grain bag, but I wasn't in a hurry.

let us know

Grimster said:

Being me I'd probably just use two of the paint strainer bags

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I have used both single and double-bagged paint strainers, and it just squished the grains up too much to allow the water to saturate during the mashing process. But, they didn't tear!

agenthucky said:

Can you elaborate on this a little more? I recently switched to the paint strainer bags I got from Lowe's and they worked great. I put my actual grain bag away damp and it grew mold. That's that. Anyway, I switched, and the paint strainer bag worked just as well, it even has an elastic to keep it from going in the pot!

Have you done another brew with the paint strainer? Was it just bad luck? I figured I would get another actual grain bag, but I wasn't in a hurry.

let us know

Click to expand...

I've done four brews with 5g paint strainers in a 5g pot using about 3.5g water and 10-12 lb of grain. My primary issue with the bags is that they aren't quite as big as the pot they are sitting in, so when I try to stir the mash, it just doesn't get as much water in the mash. Even when I moved the grain to the sparging process, the grain wasn't able to expand enough to get a proper rinse. It basically stayed the consistency of thick oatmeal the entire time.

I bought the 24" bag, and it went all the way to the bottom of the pot, and the consistency of the mash was pretty much like soupy oatmeal. During the sparge, (I do full boils in an 8g canning pot) the bag was large enough that the grains practically offer no resistance to my spoon.

Just as an update, I'm buying a few more of the same bag. My last bag I turned inside out (seam out) in order to help with cleanup, but I'm gonna try using the bag seam in and see if it lasts. I'll post later if this works.

fugazzi said:

Just as an update, I'm buying a few more of the same bag. My last bag I turned inside out (seam out) in order to help with cleanup, but I'm gonna try using the bag seam in and see if it lasts. I'll post later if this works.

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I always keep a 2nd bag handy in case one breaks. If so, just pour your kettle into another one with the bag in it, and it will filter it. That, or you could double bag bigger batches, but that might resist more water flow, I can't imagine by much though

hey this doesn't look any harder than the partial mash except more grain, no LME.. cool!

Since all grain kits are cheap, I think I'm going to do an american wheat (4lbs pale wheat, 4lbs 2-row) and use the turkey fryer.

Heat up 2.5 gallon mash on fryer to 168*, add grains, set aside and wrap in towel for an hour. Heat up sparge in boil kettle on burner to 170*. Sparge for 10. combine wort. top up to 6 gallons pre-boil volume and boil away.

Sound good?

I figured why not since it doesn't seem too hard and the ingredients will cost me about 20 bucks..

Use this calculator to determine your water temperature:

Strike Temperature Calculator

Mash in at ~150°F.

And use enough sparge water so that you don't have to top off before boil.

As far as that goes, your mash ratio is a little thicker than what I normally use. The only time I mashed that thick I really took a hit on the efficiency. Personally, with 8 pounds of grain and trying to hit 6 gals preboil, I would mash with 3 gallons and sparge with the same or maybe a little more, depending on how much you want to squeeze a hot grain bag.

I would mash with 3 gallons, also (assuming you have a big enough pot.) That gives you my usual 1.5qt/lb.

But I'm still against squeezing the grain bag. I know, I know, nothing bad has come of it yet but it just seems unnecessary.

phishfood said:

And use enough sparge water so that you don't have to top off before boil.

As far as that goes, your mash ratio is a little thicker than what I normally use. The only time I mashed that thick I really took a hit on the efficiency. Personally, with 8 pounds of grain and trying to hit 6 gals preboil, I would mash with 3 gallons and sparge with the same or maybe a little more, depending on how much you want to squeeze a hot grain bag.

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You say my mash is too thick at 2.5 then say to use 3? Lol

I understand what you're saying, I was using a 1.25 ratio. If I used 3 I would have to still top off due to grain absorption, but not as much.

You think the mash would fit in a 4 gallon pot? Maybe I will have to use 2.5...

lol...sick as in "dense", as in "more solids than water"

You would have to use a 5 gallon pot with more water.

Check out the "Can I Mash It?" Calculator here:

http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml

Leave yourself at least 3/4 gallon of space to work with, and that's pushin' it...I usually leave a gallon to stir and take up the bag.

DeathBrewer said:

lol...sick as in "dense", as in "more solids than water"

You would have to use a 5 gallon pot with more water.

Check out the "Can I Mash It?" Calculator here:

http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml

Leave yourself at least 3/4 gallon of space to work with, and that's pushin' it...I usually leave a gallon to stir and take up the bag.

Click to expand...

see thats what I get for trying to be a smartass. :cross:

So using a three gallon mash in a four gallon pot should suffice.. close, but that would cut down on head space to retain heat. :rockin:

that calc says the mash will only us 1.82 gallons of space and thats with the 1.5 ratio.

I'm out of my element here but like I said, the ingredients for the american wheat are like 20 bucks so if it doesn't turn out that good.. no biggie, I still gained some experience.

whoops that was only 4 pounds of grain... it's 3.64... wuh-oh..

I do have another turkey fryer kettle though... it's not new so I'll have to clean the hell out of it and build the oxide layer first.

Yeah, make sure you don't get any peanut oil in your brew

I thought there was a thread about deep fried beer?

Great thread, I'm gonna try this out sometime!

lol, there was a discussion among my friends about deep-fried beer and patents. I need to look that **** up~!

I decided I'm going to try it with an american wheat, but scaled to a 2.5 gallon batch so I can use my current equipment on the stove and still do a full boil.

2lb. American 2-row
2lb. Wheat Malt
.5oz. Willamette (60 mins.)
.5oz. Cascade (15 mins.)

Mash in 1.5 gallons at 150* for 60 mins.
Sparge in 1.5 gallons at 170* for 10 mins.
Pre-boil anticipated SG 1.038; Final OG 1.045

Thinking about just using American Ale (Wyeast).

What do you think, doods?!

:rockin:

MetallHed said:

I decided I'm going to try it with an american wheat, but scaled to a 2.5 gallon batch so I can use my current equipment on the stove and still do a full boil.

2lb. American 2-row
2lb. Wheat Malt
.5oz. Willamette (60 mins.)
.5oz. Cascade (15 mins.)

Mash in 1.5 gallons at 150* for 60 mins.
Sparge in 1.5 gallons at 170* for 10 mins.
Pre-boil anticipated SG 1.038; Final OG 1.045

Thinking about just using American Ale (Wyeast).

What do you think, doods?!

:rockin:

Click to expand...

1/2 batches (as I call them) work great if you are short on storage space. Easy to make, but takes the same amount of time to brew. It's a good way to try out the stovetop method. I say go for it!

MetallHed said:

I decided I'm going to try it with an american wheat, but scaled to a 2.5 gallon batch so I can use my current equipment on the stove and still do a full boil.

2lb. American 2-row
2lb. Wheat Malt
.5oz. Willamette (60 mins.)
.5oz. Cascade (15 mins.)

Mash in 1.5 gallons at 150* for 60 mins.
Sparge in 1.5 gallons at 170* for 10 mins.
Pre-boil anticipated SG 1.038; Final OG 1.045

Thinking about just using American Ale (Wyeast).

What do you think, doods?!

:rockin:

Click to expand...

This looks very similar to my 5 gallon batch which, if I say so myself , was terrific.

Looks good...on a side note, I've done some partial mash batches as 2.5 gallon STRONG beers and then diluted down to 5 gallons in the keg with distilled water. If you have a small amount of storage it works great for certain beers (stouts and wheats worked excellent.)

Well the GF and I brewed it up yesterday. I think it went pretty smooth. I put 1.5 gallons in the mash and put 2 gallons in the sparge/boil and ended up with just under 2.5 gallons final volume.

I accidentally measured the gravity reading of the wort from the mash instead of the combined wort pre-boil, so I don't know how close I was to that... BUT.. my OG before pitching was 1.046! Woo hoo!

I pitched the yeast and it's fermenting away this morning just fine and already has some krausen!

I can't wait to try this, and hope it turns out good. I know what I'll be doin all winter.

Two questions though:

1) I put the batch in a 5 gallon carboy, because thats all I had. I'm not sure how I will be taking a gravity reading because it's so far down...

2) I have a half ounce of willamette and a half ounce of cascade.. what can I make now?

MetallHed said:

I decided I'm going to try it with an american wheat, but scaled to a 2.5 gallon batch so I can use my current equipment on the stove and still do a full boil.

2lb. American 2-row
2lb. Wheat Malt
.5oz. Willamette (60 mins.)
.5oz. Cascade (15 mins.)

Mash in 1.5 gallons at 150* for 60 mins.
Sparge in 1.5 gallons at 170* for 10 mins.
Pre-boil anticipated SG 1.038; Final OG 1.045

Thinking about just using American Ale (Wyeast).

What do you think, doods?!

:rockin:

Click to expand...

I think I am gonna try this, as above, for a 2.5 gallon.

Will be my first all grain / non extract. Thanks for doing the "legwork" on the recipe!

Since this is a wheat - an additional question - can't I rack to secondary and add fruit? Not on the first batch - but if I like, I may experiment with some small bathes of fruit wheats for SWMBO - currently she is an "all beer except SA Cherry Wheat is nasty" drinker... go figure...