Coolship build

spenghali said:

next up, open fermentation! hopefully most of the coolshippers have a dedicated shed to build up some microflora in there!

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The idea in my head right now is to build an enclosure out of bricks, have the coolship on top and have storage for barrels in the bottom. Above would be some type of canopy over the coolship that would build up some microflora. Maybe even put a hop garden on the roof and start having hop vines entangle the whole thing.

BGates14 said:

The idea in my head right now is to build an enclosure out of bricks, have the coolship on top and have storage for barrels in the bottom. Above would be some type of canopy over the coolship that would build up some microflora. Maybe even put a hop garden on the roof and start having hop vines entangle the whole thing.

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Everyone claims that the secret to Cantillon's coolship is the steam hits the rafters above and condenses, dripping back down with bugs. Maybe dig up some really old oak siding from a barn to put up ontop to get some awesome bugs

I think barrels with coolship ales makes it soooo much cooler.

That is a neat idea. Being a homebrewer, I don't strive for the consistency of a Cantillon style brewery - so I like change. I think wild yeasts really allow us to capture a time and a place - a truly 'local' brew that no one else can produce anywhere, ever again. It will be interesting to see how the vintages change during time of season, year, location, etc.

At my parents house in New Hampshire we have a 4x8 foot stainless "bath" that my grandfather used for developing large ad posters in the '60. it's 10" and slopes down to one corner where there's a 1.5" threaded drain pipe. It would be an ideal cool ship but I'm only doing 10 gallon batches and live in suburban NYC but some day...
Off the top of my head I think the capacity would be b/t 200-250 gallons, if I were to drop a one or even two bbl. Batch in it I would imagine it would cool very quickly and exposure to the bugs be ideal.

Just sent you a PM. Let me know if you don't get it.

runs4beer - not accounting for the slope, that is 199 gallons. pretty cool!

runs4beer said:

At my parents house in New Hampshire we have a 4x8 foot stainless "bath" that my grandfather used for developing large ad posters in the '60. it's 10" and slopes down to one corner where there's a 1.5" threaded drain pipe. It would be an ideal cool ship but I'm only doing 10 gallon batches and live in suburban NYC but some day...
Off the top of my head I think the capacity would be b/t 200-250 gallons, if I were to drop a one or even two bbl. Batch in it I would imagine it would cool very quickly and exposure to the bugs be ideal.

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Awesome! Talk to a local homebrewers club and fill a wine barrel as a collab beer!

Dp

bellmtbbq said:

Awesome! Talk to a local homebrewers club and fill a wine barrel as a collab beer!

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I think a vessel this size will need a some what permanent set up, I believe cool ships need to be enclosed to keep the non-microscopic wildlife out (fruit fly, raccoons...), alot of work for a one off brew.
I found a big stainless steel kitty litter pan at petco that holds 5.5 gallon to the brim and on a cool night in September I put that out under the fig tree with a sheet of BIAB cloth clipped over the top. I fill it with second runnings (1.038og) from a wheat wine figuring there's no loss if it's a failure. Right now it has a very thin pellicle and there there was a fair amount of action in the air lock early on. I'm content with this for now.

runs4beer said:

I think a vessel this size will need a some what permanent set up, I believe cool ships need to be enclosed to keep the non-microscopic wildlife out (fruit fly, raccoons...), alot of work for a one off brew.
I found a big stainless steel kitty litter pan at petco that holds 5.5 gallon to the brim and on a cool night in September I put that out under the fig tree with a sheet of BIAB cloth clipped over the top. I fill it with second runnings (1.038og) from a wheat wine figuring there's no loss if it's a failure. Right now it has a very thin pellicle and there there was a fair amount of action in the air lock early on. I'm content with this for now.

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Then your only option is to open a commercial brewery! Hahahha

bellmtbbq said:

Then your only option is to open a commercial brewery! Hahahha

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Or get it to one that can press it into action (wink, wink Chugach).

Touche! What sort of flavors are you getting from your wild brew? I put one out when Sandy came through... lots of banana flavors so far, but they are mellowing as time goes on. Definitely clean, though.

BGates14 said:

reading about doing this, curious on updates as well as a few other questions that come to mind.

i've read about how cantillion and other places fear cleaning the area of cobwebs and other filth to ensure they aren't tampering with the yeast. would anyone do anything specific to the area they plan on keeping the coolship to make sure it's a air is cleaner (if that makes sense and is possible)? i'd like to do this in my garage, but feel like it's got all sorts of airborn nonsense. i'm thinking on building a box and then have the coolship inside.

still working on my thoughts, but those are the only concerns i've come accross so far. hope you're still progressing this idea.

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They don't clean spider webs or kill spiders because spiders eat fruit flies. fruit flies carry acetobacter.

No matter what, if using a coolship, you will get stuff into your wort that you don't want. The idea is to have the good stuff out compete the bad stuff. If you aren't pumping wort into already inoculated barrels, it might be smart to put a primer in your barrel/carboy. Either some built up dregs from a commercial sour, or maybe a 1/4 gallon of a previous homebrew that turned out good.

I ended up pitching yeast into this barrel, but the priming process is outlined here: http://funkfactorybrewing.blogspot.com/2012/01/priming-barrel.html

Levifunk,
If you inoculate the barrel with dregs from something else or a different yeast, then why use the coolship? I feel as though the point is to gather the local yeast - if you already have yeast in your barrel then it wouldn't be too much different then chilling and pitching.
A method I've used is I make several small 1-2 gallon batches and 'coolship' them until they've fermented out. Once they have, I rack off the beer, and pitch the yeast into a larger batch. That way if it spoils I'm only wasting 1-2 gallons.
The goal of my coolship build is to make a beer that is local to my region. I've been collecting yeast in the spring/fall and so far had halfway decent results. (Although I'm not a fan of all the banana flavors...
Cheers!
CBC

Yeah, coolship/koelschip is really to bring the locals in and cultivate in your brewing environment. But, inoculate ANOTHER barrel with dregs and blend to taste.

Your operation gets bigger by the day

ChugachBrewing said:

Levifunk,
If you inoculate the barrel with dregs from something else or a different yeast, then why use the coolship? I feel as though the point is to gather the local yeast - if you already have yeast in your barrel then it wouldn't be too much different then chilling and pitching.
A method I've used is I make several small 1-2 gallon batches and 'coolship' them until they've fermented out. Once they have, I rack off the beer, and pitch the yeast into a larger batch. That way if it spoils I'm only wasting 1-2 gallons.
The goal of my coolship build is to make a beer that is local to my region. I've been collecting yeast in the spring/fall and so far had halfway decent results. (Although I'm not a fan of all the banana flavors...
Cheers!
CBC

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The wild yeast from a coolship isn't trained to ferment beer. Not only that, but its a crap shoot as to what you'll get. The Belgians have had hundreds of years to refine their inoculated barrels and in effect "culture" their yeast. The yeast in the barrels is well trained to ferment beer, and there is enough microbes in the barrels to guide the fermentation and ensure a desirable result.

I am glad you and other have had decent results with simply spontaneous fermentation, but I have heard many others (and experienced it myself with test batches) of 100% spontaneous fermentation turning out undrinkable. You just don't know if the wild sacchro is going to be strong enough to out compete the wild enteric bacteria. And if it is, will the wild Brett, Pedio, Lacto also be strong enough to result in a well rounded and complex beer? Its very doubtful.

Knowing you have good sacchro that will out compete enteric bacteria will make sure you don't end up with poison. Knowing you have good brett/pedio/lacto will ensure you have a well rounded beer. The coolship will introduce new strains of these which will add to your complexity. If you reuse some of that yeast to prime your next carboy, or reuse the same barrel, you will carry those new yeasts to the next batch which will have further new yeast added to it via the coolship. This is the process the Belgians went through, and in time you will build that "house flavor".

Sounds good, that's kind of what I've been doing. Although at this point I'm keeping many yeast samples, trying to find a wild one that I want to keep around. Then IT will go in the barrel. I just wasn't sure about how your methods, somewhere earlier in the explanation I was a little lost with the pre-barrel wash. Gracie.

Update: Coolship season is coming to Maine soon. Just ordered the drain parts from bargainfittings and got 100lb or raw wheat waiting to bite at it. Need to finish polishing and we'll be sailing soon.

ChugachBrewing said:

Update: Coolship season is coming to Maine soon. Just ordered the drain parts from bargainfittings and got 100lb or raw wheat waiting to bite at it. Need to finish polishing and we'll be sailing soon.

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Pictures?

TNGabe said:

Pictures?

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This ^^^

Here ya go. First operation. Ever. Still haven't "made it pretty" or installed the drain plug, but had some leftover wort today and put it together. Got busy. (brewed 110 gallons this weekend...)

Put it in the basement, where I have a barrel of sour taking off, figured there is enough yeast floating around down there.

Second photo is hop addition for today.

Nice! We are doing a bottle trade in a year!

Coolship season is here!

Beautiful! I want to see a couple of barrels going by the end of the year with spontaneous stuff. I know there is a distillery in New York or Vermont that sells ten, fifteen, and twenty gallon barrels for a nice price. They shouldn't produce much aceitic, at all

I need to ask a really stupid question. What keeps flies or dust from winding up in your beer?

Nuttin'. I haven't seen any yet (all my windows have screens though.) There is a room in our house that can be closed off where I can open all windows, etc for letting stuff in. I think I'm a little early, if it doesn't take off soon I'll just add the 'house yeast' that I collected from the fall. That stuff is tasting AMAzing right now.
For any "bug" collectors out there who would be interested in a trade, I'm always looking for other bugs and would be happy to trade for anything else.

Maybe a small fan blowing past the surface of the coolship would keep insects from getting in there. Not that an insect would matter all that much.

I figure the more bugs the better .

Update: Just had a bottle from the first wild harvest I did here. (pre coolship days). Amazing! Hope the coolship does as well.

Ou of curiosity, how long ago was that, and what was your process (general idea on grain bill, mash, OG). Did you just leave the wort in a open bucket? How did you innoculate pre-coolship?
I had some fabulous success harvesting some wild yeast in hopped starter wort and brewing with that (it wasn't at all sour). but I have also had some interest in doing legit spontaneous fermentations.

It was a 2.5 gallon batch, biab style. 90% 2 row, 10% crystal 60. Small amount of 12 year old hops. I just let it sit in a bucket by the window in a room of the house that gets a lot of airflow. Sat overnight. Then dumped it into the fermenter. I ended up doing this method twice, and finally harvested the yeast from the second batch. Now I use that yeast and pitch it regularly.
Tomorrow I'll be doing a 60 gallon batch (filling a barrel) with a turbid mash, and using the coolship for 7 gallons of it to inoculate the rest.

What's your turbid mash process? Did you follow one of the established ones (wild brews, mad ferm'ist, etc) or did you modify?

If you built one in a really dull person's house would it still be a coolship? Would you have to rename it a squareship? Perhaps a unhipship?

I apologize.

Wow this thread is interesting!

The way this thread is heading, I'm about to jumpship.

I'm planning a coolship beer this week. I just went to a restaurant supply store and picked up a good sized buffet pan (stainless steel) that will hold up to 5 gallons for about $20. I'm building a little wooden roof for it to keep our rain and bird **** and covering the coolship with window screen material. I'm just going to put this on the top of my flat roof (I live inner-city) and hopefully something magical happens! I'm hoping for some sourness and I want it to be 100% wild.

How long should I leave it outside before I transfer it to a secondary with all of my captured bugs and yeast? Any other tips?

FYI the temperature of my city is about 20-30C (70-85F) in the days and 10-15C (50-50F) at night.

I was planning on doing a standard saison style base beer, any other base beer style that you would suggest?

Also, is there much risk of catching something really bad... like it will make me sick if I drink it? haha

sclitch said:

I'm planning a coolship beer this week. I just went to a restaurant supply store and picked up a good sized buffet pan (stainless steel) that will hold up to 5 gallons for about $20. I'm building a little wooden roof for it to keep our rain and bird **** and covering the coolship with window screen material. I'm just going to put this on the top of my flat roof (I live inner-city) and hopefully something magical happens! I'm hoping for some sourness and I want it to be 100% wild.

How long should I leave it outside before I transfer it to a secondary with all of my captured bugs and yeast? Any other tips?

FYI the temperature of my city is about 20-30C (70-85F) in the days and 10-15C (50-50F) at night.

I was planning on doing a standard saison style base beer, any other base beer style that you would suggest?

Also, is there much risk of catching something really bad... like it will make me sick if I drink it? haha

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I'm on a smartphone so I apologize for being quick.

No you won't get sick. Perhaps a stronger immune system...

Don't chill it. Put it out hot. I spoke with Jean van Roy, and he says it needs time to chill, and that small batches chill too fast. But 12ish hours should be fine.

Best time is spring/fall.

After the 12 hrs put in carboy. Expect longer lag times.

ChugachBrewing said:

I'm on a smartphone so I apologize for being quick.

No you won't get sick. Perhaps a stronger immune system...

Don't chill it. Put it out hot. I spoke with Jean van Roy, and he says it needs time to chill, and that small batches chill too fast. But 12ish hours should be fine.

Best time is spring/fall.

After the 12 hrs put in carboy. Expect longer lag times.

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Thanks chugach. Anyone ever try leaving your beer in the cool ship for a couple weeks or more? Any decent results or is that just a bad idea. I just want to give the best chance for my beer to grab some interesting bacterium.

sclitch said:

Thanks chugach. Anyone ever try leaving your beer in the cool ship for a couple weeks or more? Any decent results or is that just a bad idea. I just want to give the best chance for my beer to grab some interesting bacterium.

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I havent done more than a few days, and at that point had to skim out some mold. If you really want to.experiment with the yeast aspect, try using mason jars with cheesecloth on them at different times and in various locations. You could even leave one in a field out of view and away from your urban environment. Let the jars ferment and play around with what you get. That way you're not wasting product before you know what it is. Generally when I have done a larger coolship batch, its leftover from a 50gallon brew that didn't fit in fermentors.

Good luck and let me know how it turns out (in years, sadly. That's the only problem is the turnaround time...)

Shameless self promotion. Brought the coolship beer #1 to the AHA conference. Was well liked and I ended up on the radio in NYC the following monday on the heritage radio network out of Brooklyn.

http://www.heritageradionetwork.com...it-Episode-32-Starting-a-Meadery-DIY-Coolship

I hate listening to myself talk since I tend to babble and stutter, but it was a lot of fun. Thanks to Chris and Mary!