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Even though I haven't done an AG batch yet, I would recommend doing a dry run (pun intended) first. Go through all the steps and motions to make sure that you will have everything that you need. Then when it comes time to do the real deal, you won't have as many surprises.
 
RichBrewer said:
2. Heat your strike water about 2 or 3 degrees above your target temp, pour the water into the tun, and let the temp drop to your target. By the time you reach your strike temp, the tun should be conditioned and when the grains are mixed in you will hit your desired mash temp and it will hold longer.

I hope this helps for you first timers or even folks who are struggling with AG brewing. :mug:
Click to expand...

Hi. I've done one AG batch so far and plan on doing my second tomorrow. I have a lot of bugs to iron out before I nail down a steady efficiency (not the least of which are the tender loving caresses my LHBS's mill gives my grain instead of grinding it).

On hitting temperatures: am I correct to understand, then, that you're putting the water in first and adding the grain on top of that? Awesome.

This is a great thread. When I do finally get the hang of this AG thing, it's going to be all thanks to you guys.

Kai
 
I haven't done an All Grain yet, but I'm working on a script which will generate directions specific to the recipe you are using. Check it out here. I researched a bit to gather all the information. The calculations seem right. The only problem is that I probably have many spelling errors. There's a reason why I write software for a living. Heh.
 
98EXL said:
what do you guys use to measure water amounts accurately?
Click to expand...

I have my spoon marked at gallon increments, so I just stick the handle into my brewpot.

By the way - I did my second all grain batch today, and with with the tips from this thread (and Bobby_M's double-sparge thread) we gained 12 points to 72% on an LHBS crush with undoctored water. Thanks!
 
RichBrewer said:
That is good information. I never thought of that. I wonder why that happens?
Click to expand...

I can see how the temperature of the grains will throw the calculations off slightly for a 10 gallon batch.
 
Turkeyfoot Jr. said:
If I'm using the correct volume of water how much does it matter if it's in the strike or sparge?
From reading this thread it sounds like most people are doing a smaller mash ratio and a larger sparge ratio but is that really necessary as long as the same amount of water is used in total?
Click to expand...

Too much strike water will dilute the mash so your enzymes will take a lot longer to convert. In extreme cases it will let your mash not convert fully.

Also your sparge is designed to rinse sugar out of the wort. Not enough sparge water will leave a lot of sugar in your wort.
That's a waste.
 
98EXL said:
what do you guys use to measure water amounts accurately?
Click to expand...
Depending on the size, I used two very sophisticated calibration systems to hit volumes exactly.

When I did five gallon batches I used this one:
BrewPot.JPG


When I move to 10 gallon batches, I upgraded to this system:
Keggle_4.JPG
 
boo boo said:
Too much strike water will dilute the mash so your enzymes will take a lot longer to convert. In extreme cases it will let your mash not convert fully.
Click to expand...

Yes, but you need quite a lot of strike water. I mostly mash with about 1.5 - 2 qts/lb which is considered a fairly thin mash.

Kai
 
Kaiser said:
Yes, but you need quite a lot of strike water. I mostly mash with about 1.5 - 2 qts/lb which is considered a fairly thin mash.

Kai
Click to expand...

I mash thicker than that, about 1.2 quarts per pound, because of the limitations of my 5 gallon mash tun when using 12 pounds of grain.
 
Nicely done. I sure wish I had read this before my first try. What an abortion that was!
 
First off... I wouldn't be an AG brewer without the support of this group. Thanks to all. All the info for first time AG people in this post is right on. I applied many of these techniques and rules of thumb / calculations and they produced helped me produce the best IIPA and RIS in my 11 years of brewing. Heres where I had my problems and learned from them:

Set up: 10 gal round with stainless false bottom. 20# grain bill - crushed.
Issue 1-
False bottom let too much grain by, Causing a clog in my line. slow/stuck sparge.
Next time: Copper manifold with stainless braid over copper.
Issue 2-
Used hops plugs and pellets in boil My advice - Use hops sock or other hop containment method. Also had grain as well as hops attempting to flow into my plate chiller.
Next time : Hops sock and bazooka type screen drain.
Issue 3- Sparge: Performed a batch sparge and it worked fine. Next time I will attempt fly sparging with some 60 mesh nylon screen above grain bed with sparge water flow thru screen.
I did not worry about pH or measure efficiency the first time. I wanted to understand timing and the mechanics of the process first. Next time I will start filling out my log sheet.
One last thing - make sure you have plenty of hot water ready for your steps that need water of a certain temp. Get a good propane burner 150K btu at least.

Time to search for a good McEwans scotch ale recepie. Thanks all

Randy
 
I'm still not understanding why the wort tastes sweet sometimes right before I pitch....it baffles me.
 
98EXL said:
I'm still not understanding why the wort tastes sweet sometimes right before I pitch....it baffles me.
Click to expand...

Because there's a ton of sugar (simply put) in the wort. Fermentation occurs because yeast convert sugar to ethanol and CO2.

EDIT: I think I am seeing sarcasm now. Teh Intraweb!
 
njnear76 said:
I haven't done an All Grain yet, but I'm working on a script which will generate directions specific to the recipe you are using. Check it out here. I researched a bit to gather all the information. The calculations seem right. The only problem is that I probably have many spelling errors. There's a reason why I write software for a living. Heh.
Click to expand...

I didn't see anyone comment on this web page, but it seems like some real good information to me. Good for what to do if you run into any problems along the way that need to be corrected.
 
Hermish said:
I didn't see anyone comment on this web page, but it seems like some real good information to me. Good for what to do if you run into any problems along the way that need to be corrected.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the shout-out. :) I actually moved the directions/calculator to here and corrected some errors. I had a problem printing from the geocities site, because of their advertisement scheme.

Mike
 
Turkeyfoot Jr. said:
I'm brewing two batches this weekend for the specific purpose of sorting out my efficiency issues. Reading through this really helped by I have one question still.

If I'm using the correct volume of water how much does it matter if it's in the strike or sparge? I'm brewing two batches of beer this weekend to work out some efficiency issues. In one batch I'm going for a 1.5:1 quart/pound ratio for the mash and according to Beersmith I'd use the same ratio for my sparge to reach my desired boil volume. In the other batch I'm going for a 2:1 ratio and once again it works out that my strike and sparge volumes are almost identical. The two batches have different amounts of grain so that I could keep the volumes of water the same and get the biggest boil I can manage.

So, would it be better to keep things as they are or to drop the mash ratio in each batch by a bit and increase the sparge by the same amount? From reading this thread it sounds like most people are doing a smaller mash ratio and a larger sparge ratio but is that really necessary as long as the same amount of water is used in total?
Click to expand...

I don't know for sure which is better but I can tell you that I always go stiffer mash (1.15 to 1.3 qts/lb) and break the sparge into two equal infusions and I hit about 90% rather consistently.
 
I would like to a make a suggestion. If you are young to all grain, forget the words like efficiency. Focus on the steps, the temperatures, the water you are going add and the mash temperatures. and keep notes as to what you are doing,every time you do something. Compare with your original game plan, then make corrections when you make that brew again. The decsion on the beer comes when it is ready for the glass. I have been brewing seriously for 10 years,
I cant tell you my IBU,S, my color numbers or my efficiency. My last porter cost me
$24 for 2 cases thats versus $7 a six pack. My scottish ale $40.00 for 2 cases versus traquar at $5.50 a bottle. Now thats efficiency. Note I got a Parti- Gyle case off the scottish added 4 gallons of water and 4 lbs of brown sugar and got a wicked barley wine out of the leftovers in the sparge.
 
That's a mighty good tip. Also, it's not a bad idea to keep a few pounds of light DME handy, so you really don't have to worry about efficiency. :)


TL
 
The beauty of this hobby is you can decide how picky you want to be. There are guys that obsess about recipes and whether or not to include or exclude that 2 oz addition of some specialty malt, etc. Then there are the equipment geeks that like plumbing their brewstands with pure stainless to an artwork-like form. Then the scientists come out of the woodwork and start looking at attenuation, mash temp effects, and maximizing efficiency for no real good reason other than having something to do in between drinking. Some want relax, don't worry......and others enjoy worrying.
 
I want ease of operation, fool-proof method, and let the machine/system do the work. Labor intensive sucks, and so does inconsistency.

KISL= Keep it simple, Lazy! :D

But if it tastes good, I'm drinking it!:D
 
RichBrewer said:
No. What I stated is correct. You want to use about 1/2 gallon per pound of grain for sparging.
Click to expand...

That seems really, really wet to me. Remembering that all my calculations are for my ten-gallon batch size, I threw some numbers into my spreadsheet. I plugged in 25 pounds of grain at 70 degrees F, a ratio of 1.25 qt./lb., and a target temperature of 152 degrees.

I get:
Strike water: 7.8125 gallon at 163 degrees
Mashout water: 3.2 gallons, boiling
Sparge water: 4.7 gallons - 0.188 gallon per pound

First runoff: 7.28 gallons (I fly-sparge, but this figure ignores sparge water volume)
Total runoff: 11.98 gallons (not bad, considering I try for 12 gallons to the kettle)

I always hit my temperatures and volumes this way.


I also assume absorption of 0.15 gallons per pound of grain and a specific heat for grain one-third that of water (that is to say, water holds three times as much heat as grain, per pound).
 
How long does it take to boil off 1-1.5 gallons. I understand that weather conditions and equipment play a role.

I never really paid attention while doing extract kits and I was wondering how you figured this out when doing your first all grain.

I would suspect that to boil off a gallon in a hour it would take a roiling boil. Am I wrong?

Thanks,
Mike
 
I am no expert, acctually still a green horn after 2 years doing this. You guys are great.

I place everything I need on the counter and in order just like is suggested above. I number it also so I can memorize the steps and what each one is for that particular beer. very anal but very accurate. The beer comes out beter than any bud light i have ever bought. Merry Christmas guys/gals.

Oscar,
 
Just did my first All Grain and my big advice is: Buy a decent digital thermometer. It will be worth it.

The thermometer on my hydrometer only goes up to 110F even though it is marked to 140F. That screwed up my hydrometer adjustment. The dairy thermometer that I used in the mash is also questionable.
 
njnear76 said:
Just did my first All Grain and my big advice is: Buy a decent digital thermometer. It will be worth it.

The thermometer on my hydrometer only goes up to 110F even though it is marked to 140F. That screwed up my hydrometer adjustment. The dairy thermometer that I used in the mash is also questionable.
Click to expand...

you definitely need to invest in a new thermometer. Temperature control is key to much of the brewing process.
 
I just picked up a brewmometer...it's teh tits! I'm dying to use it because I think my old thermo was going up on me
 
I had problems with inconsistant boil off rates. The software tells you how much volume will be lost during the boil at 212 degrees. So I use my thermometer and get my boil to settle at or near 212 and I've been hitting my expected volumes dead on.

njnear76 said:
How long does it take to boil off 1-1.5 gallons. I understand that weather conditions and equipment play a role.

I never really paid attention while doing extract kits and I was wondering how you figured this out when doing your first all grain.

I would suspect that to boil off a gallon in a hour it would take a roiling boil. Am I wrong?

Thanks,
Mike
Click to expand...
 
BierMuncher said:
I discovered that when I moved to 10-gallon batches, my temperature loss at strike was worse than with 5-gallons. I like to mash at around 156 degrees and with 5 gallon batches, that meant I had to strike with 168-170 degree water.

No with a 10-gallon batch, (using a 10 gallon rubbemaid cooler) I have to strike with 180 degree water (against a 20-21 lb grain bill) to get my 156 range.

Anyone else discover this change when they moved up to 10-gallons?
Click to expand...

Im no scientist, but with a larger cooler, you have more surface area to work with. Wouldn't that increase your thermal mass, thus requiring a higher strike temp?
 
YooperBrew said:
I'm no scientist but I can see that- say your grains are 60 degrees. For a 10 gallon batch, you may have 23 pounds of grains to bring up to 156. Therefore, you need a higher strike temp than if you had 12 pounds of grain. Even if your grain to water ration hasn't changed, the thermal mass is different. More hot water doesn't equal higher grain temp, necessarily.

(This makes sense to me, but I'm going to have to add this disclaimer- I've been drinking this evening.)
Click to expand...
Lol! Maybe I should read the entire thread before posting next time.

That said, what are some solutions rather than preventative measures to other common problems? For example, when I first started AG, I would always come out way under my desired mash temp. In a frantic mess, I would run back to my pro mash and calculate how much more water and at what strike temp I would need to add to raise the mash temp another 10 degrees. More often than not, I found my mash would stay at the same temp or go up only a few degrees. So I would curse at pro mash and repeat the steps until I hit 153 F.

Needless to say, my first AG batch was a mess, and I ended up adding way too much water. My second AG batch went very similar, except this time I used the decoction method to raise the temp instead of adding more and more water. Turned out to be a much better solution to the missed mash temp problem.

Anyone else have other solutions to common problems, as apposed to preventative measures to common problems?
 
FWIW and since i have not seen this posted in this thread, I will be doing my first AG batch soon. I have to say that i feel relatively comfortable. I have been doing partial mashes for my last 4 brews. Now someone correct me if i am wrong but the process is quite similar. You get to work with the process with a little reassurance in the sense that you have the extract to back you up. On a smaller scale you get to learn to play with the mash in terms of calculating the numbers, heating the tun and the stike water as well as learning the sparging process(I used a 5 gal igloo with a ball valve and false bottom that i am going to transfer to my 10gal cooler) so the prosess will be the same with no extra cost. I think this process may help anyone that has done only extract learn the AG process in steps and still make quality beer. Just my $.02 though....
 
+1

Partial mashes made me MUCH more comfortable and made the leap to all-grain possible. AG brewing didn't seem very do-able when i was only into extract, but now i brew almost exclusively with grain. in my kitchen, no less!

:mug:
 
After a few PM's under my belt, AG didn't seem that confusing. Now that I have one out of the way, I expect my next run to be much smoother.

Linc
 
hey i just bottled my first all grain brew! I'm gonig to let it age for at least 2 weeks before i open it, but so far it looks great! This is only my second batch, my first being an extract. So i'll be happy if it turns out tasting anything like beer!
 
RichBrewer said:
I've seen a lot of threads started concerning problems with peoples first all grain brews.
I would like to give a couple suggestions that might help improve the process for new AG brewers. Here are a couple common problems I've seen:

1. Low efficiency.
I have found that the most common thread here is not using enough water during mashing and sparging. All you need to do is figure 1 to 1 1/4 quarts of water per pound of grain for the mash and about 1/2 gallon of water per pound of grain for sparging.
I think some folks are concerned about too much wort volume when they are figuring how much water to use but if you want decent efficiency you have to use the correct amount of water.
If your brew pot isn't big enough for the volume required you will need to compensate by using more grain and know that your efficiency will be lower. (You will want to use the 1 to 1 1/4 quart per pound of grain for the mash and adjust your sparge water for the volume required)
If you have a large enough brew pot you will need to calculate the boil time so you will have the correct volume when completed. Some high gravity brews can take 2 hours or more to boil down to the correct volume.
2. Missing the mash temperature. (Usually low when using cooler type mash tuns)
To avoid this common problem there are two things I suggest:
1. Pre-heat your mash tun with hot or boiling water. This water is drained from the tun right before the strike water is added. Using this method will pre-heat the tun so not as much heat will be pulled from the strike water when added .
2. Heat your strike water about 2 or 3 degrees above your target temp, pour the water into the tun, and let the temp drop to your target. By the time you reach your strike temp, the tun should be conditioned and when the grains are mixed in you will hit your desired mash temp and it will hold longer.

I hope this helps for you first timers or even folks who are struggling with AG brewing. :mug:
Click to expand...





This works great but in order to save water as we do here in the high desert let your water cool and then add the grains about five to ten degrees above mash temp depending on amount of grains....:mug:
 
Recently did my first AG. Big thanks to everyone in this thread. Knowing what to expect made my day a lot easier. Only problem I had was a very minor leak in my immersion chiller. Clean-up was bear, though. I prepped for everything except how to dispose of 13 pounds of wet, sticky grains. Composting isn't an option, so I had to scoop it into tiny trash bags. I spilled all over the place, my dog was trying to lick the floor. Funny now, not so funny then.
 
MelsWort said:
Recently did my first AG. Big thanks to everyone in this thread. Knowing what to expect made my day a lot easier. Only problem I had was a very minor leak in my immersion chiller. Clean-up was bear, though. I prepped for everything except how to dispose of 13 pounds of wet, sticky grains. Composting isn't an option, so I had to scoop it into tiny trash bags. I spilled all over the place, my dog was trying to lick the floor. Funny now, not so funny then.
Click to expand...
I buy the large (55 gallon) yard waste bags at walmart. Huge and strong as dirt.

I simply put the bag over my mash tun, slip the bag down over the sides all the way and and turn the tun upside down. In goes everything and just remove the tun.

Tie the bag into a knot and out to the curb.

It handles my 26 pound (dry) grain bills just fine.

One note...double check that you didn't dump your manifold in the bag...been there... ;)
 

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